There Are No Returns On 3rd Party Graded Items

[Jeffro.]

I just want to say large front/back cover scans do not always tell the whole story.

 

I agree 100%. (thumbs u

 

Indeed they don't. I recently sold one book that has some wear that did not show up in the scan.

I made sure to note those flaws

[Bosco685]

CGC is trusted and much more reliable than an ebay grader, but it's not infallible. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

I agree. But if you are asking what is a fair policy, part of the value proposition of a third-party grading company is taking the guess work out of a transaction. I understand the easy answer for a buyer is to assume it is always on the seller to take that risk both parties will agree with the third-party grading company (whatever that standard is when it comes to CGC, since no official standard is published).

 

There are buyers with their own grading standard how they judge a book, no matter what Overstreet or other references publish. In one CG discussion that mirrors the OP's intent, some participants were stating a Near Mint (9.4) is not allowed to have any spine stress of any kind. Not even a corner bump. That if such a book showed up, they would return it. That's a 9.6 to 9.8 being described, which is why there are various grades to account for a book's condition. Trying to make a 9.4 something other than that can come across like a buyer looking for a grade bump candidate which they can then resubmit to the third-party grader.

[skypinkblu]

I'll take back any book, for any reason. I can't see questioning a person if they are unhappy, and I would not block them. I do want to know if I've made an error, so I can improve.

 

I'm not a dealer, but I am a collector and I'd hope that if I received something I didn't like that someone else would let me return it.

 

The only thing I've begun to ask is that people let me know in a reasonable time.

 

I do this because of a dear old friend (who you and I know from eBay)...who is very busy and is still opening his eBay packages months after he gets them. He finds a lot of missing pages and stuff, and he does return them or he writes to the sellers, but I keep telling him 2 months or more to open a package is not really fair. He has never returned something he bought from me, but I hear about his other returns and I think the timing is an issue.

 

Both sides should be fair. The person buying and the person selling.

 

As far as CGC books go...well, they are just books and the people grading them are people. They may be more consistent than most graders since they do it in a group, but there are inconsistencies that you just can't see in a scan.

 

I've never returned one myself, but someone who is a high grade collector might be bothered by something they see in person, and my aim is not to make people unhappy.

 

If they want to return it, it's FINE, someone else will love the book.

[Speedy-D]

CGC is trusted and much more reliable than an ebay grader, but it's not infallible. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

I agree. But if you are asking what is a fair policy, part of the value proposition of a third-party grading company is taking the guess work out of a transaction. I understand the easy answer for a buyer is to assume it is always on the seller to take that risk both parties will agree with the third-party grading company (whatever that standard is when it comes to CGC, since no official standard is published).

 

There are buyers with their own grading standard how they judge a book, no matter what Overstreet or other references publish. In one CG discussion that mirrors the OP's intent, some participants were stating a Near Mint (9.4) is not allowed to have any spine stress of any kind. Not even a corner bump. That if such a book showed up, they would return it. That's a 9.6 to 9.8 being described, which is why there are various grades to account for a book's condition. Trying to make a 9.4 something other than that can come across like a buyer looking for a grade bump candidate which they can then resubmit to the third-party grader.

I don't think any of that matters. It's business, returns are a cost of doing business. Having a good return policy will get you farther than trying to read into the intentions of your customers and decide whether they are honest enough and reasonable enough to deserve a return. As I said before, factor the occasional return into your business model and much of the pain disappears.

[Bosco685]

I don't think any of that matters. It's business, returns are a cost of doing business. Having a good return policy will get you farther than trying to read into the intentions of your customers and decide whether they are honest enough and reasonable enough to deserve a return. As I said before, factor the occasional return into your business model and much of the pain disappears.

 

I think that is going to extremes to say none of that matters. But I get your point about having a return policy.

 

It does matter when some buyers are fishing for grade bump candidates, and they potentially make it a regular practice in coming back to the same resellers for books. Then those folks become your expense item you have to account for now.

 

But for the general buyer pool, offering a return policy is the right thing to do.

[VintageComics]

I don't think any of that matters. It's business, returns are a cost of doing business. Having a good return policy will get you farther than trying to read into the intentions of your customers and decide whether they are honest enough and reasonable enough to deserve a return. As I said before, factor the occasional return into your business model and much of the pain disappears.

 

I know a few buyers that return books simply because they won't upgrade for them. I refuse to enable that behavior. Ask your questions, do your homework and if you commit, man up and take your lumps if you want to roll the dice. I'm not a safety net for your craps shoots.

 

A good return policy is one thing but even a department store will block you if you have a habit of making shady returns on a regular basis.

 

Having a good return policy is one thing. Having someone abuse it is something entirely different.

 

That's all I'm saying. (thumbs u

[Speedy-D]

I don't think any of that matters. It's business, returns are a cost of doing business. Having a good return policy will get you farther than trying to read into the intentions of your customers and decide whether they are honest enough and reasonable enough to deserve a return. As I said before, factor the occasional return into your business model and much of the pain disappears.

 

I know a few buyers that return books simply because they won't upgrade for them. I refuse to enable that behavior. Ask your questions, do your homework and if you commit, man up and take your lumps if you want to roll the dice. I'm not a safety net for your craps shoots.

 

A good return policy is one thing but even a department store will block you if you have a habit of making shady returns on a regular basis.

 

Having a good return policy is one thing. Having someone abuse it is something entirely different.

 

That's all I'm saying. (thumbs u

Sure, if you catch specific people messing with you, by all means, cover yourself. As far as I'm concerned, this is outside the scope of having a blanket return policy. Calling it "blanket" doesn't have to be unreasonable, but should apply 99% of the time.

[Flaming_Telepath]

An observation regarding 'abuse' of a returns policy...

 

The blanket return policy - if in place - is factored into your business model and is calculated as a 'loss leader', if you like. Apart from it being the right thing to do, it is also in place to engender trust amongst potential buyers and generate revenue that might otherwise have not been realised.

 

To make exceptions to this 'blanket policy' seems to me to be unnecessary if it's been properly factored into your operating budget as well as poor form. It's rather like advertising your restaurant as 'All You Can Eat' but then ejecting people/banning people who eat more than you think they should.

 

The fact is, CGC grades are NOT created equal, and there ARE defects that are not obvious from scans, certainly when you consider the myriad scan settings that can be utilised. Inconsistency has also been rife at CGC for the last few years and 'gift grades' are commonplace. The intention may have been the creation of an agreed 'gold standard', but the reality is different.

 

Our blanket policy includes a caveat regarding return shipping that, we believe, takes some of the risk away of 'abuse'. Basically, a return on a CGC item is at your own expense if everything has been fully disclosed at point of sale, and at our expense if we've failed to tell you something.

 

For those fearing being taken for a ride, and having their business brought to its knees, since our launch in 2010, we've had a total of eight books returned, one of them a CGC item.

 

Just sayin'...

[VintageComics]

Sure, if you catch specific people messing with you, by all means, cover yourself. As far as I'm concerned, this is outside the scope of having a blanket return policy. Calling it "blanket" doesn't have to be unreasonable, but should apply 99% of the time.

 

Can't disagree with you there.

 

Our blanket policy includes a caveat regarding return shipping that, we believe, takes some of the risk away of 'abuse'. Basically, a return on a CGC item is at your own expense if everything has been fully disclosed at point of sale, and at our expense if we've failed to tell you something.

 

That's how I would do it too.

 

For those fearing being taken for a ride, and having their business brought to its knees, since our launch in 2010, we've had a total of eight books returned, one of them a CGC item.

 

Just sayin'...

 

And since 2009 when I went full time I don't think I've ever had a book returned except for the person who couldn't upgrade the books. But we were having a discussion and I was just bringing out all the cobwebs.

 

 

[Bosco685]

Our blanket policy includes a caveat regarding return shipping that, we believe, takes some of the risk away of 'abuse'. Basically, a return on a CGC item is at your own expense if everything has been fully disclosed at point of sale, and at our expense if we've failed to tell you something.

 

 

Now that is the most fair, and reduces the financial risk for sellers. It just means it will take longer to resell the book as you wait for it to be returned, relisted and then claimed by someone else.

 

[ttfitz]

And if a customer says my mother smells of elderberries he's going to be told in no uncertain words that she doesn't. It's as simple as that.

 

 

 

As I have never smelled an elderberry, I couldn't say if my mother smells of them or not.

 

Now, if you fart in my general direction, that's a whole different thing!

 

[Tony S]

There Are No Returns On 3rd Party Graded Items

 

This is a little tricky.

Remember there are two kinds of people selling comics, dealers and private collectors.

 

 

Dealers are businesses that always (or should always) have cash on hand to buy new stock or accept the occasional return.

Dealers should have a return policy even for graded books.

 

A private collector often is selling some/all of his comics for emergency cash for a medial bill or car repair or might even be selling under a court order (tax court/divorce court/bankruptcy court) so the money is going to be gone and won't be there for a refund.

 

However if someone is selling under a "No Returns On 3rd Party Graded Items" policy they are obliged to post full uncropped large hi-res scans of the front and back cover and make sure they use bullet proof packing and purchase full insurance from the post office so if the comic/slab is damaged in any way during shipping the buyer is protected.

 

 

Statement I've bolded totally misunderstands how things work on eBay. Secure packaging and insurance does not protect the BUYER. It protects the SELLER. Because I guarantee you that if a Buyer Protection claim is filed with eBay because the slab arrives damaged, the seller is going to see their money disappear and the Buyer will get a refund. That insurance makes sure the Seller eventually gets compensated for any loss or damage and the secure packaging minimizes the risk of a damage claim.

 

[dupont2005]

If the seller buys the insurance, they choose who gets the payout if anything happens. I always choose myself getting the payout since I'll be refunding the buyer through Paypal anyway.