Truly, what was the 1990's boom like?

[Scturo]

Looking back on it now, I should have ceased buying new comics (and sportscards ) and instead put that cash into bronze and silver. Oh well, such is life

 

Yeah I put some money into sportscards too. Sold off most.

[Prince Namor]

H

I think one of the thing that is often overlooked, or ignored, when comparing the 1990s boom/bust to today is the huge difference between the amount of items that are being produced.

 

I think it's pretty well known - the decrease in the amount of items being produced - though I like to think of it more as: The mass exodus of comic book buyers.

 

Part of the reason that anyone *should* have been able to tell that the 1990s comics would be a very bad investment is simply that the numbers printed were insanely high. Buying 100 copies of something that has 1.000.000 copies printed is not good from either an immediate money point of view, or a percentage of the whole point of view.

 

If you weren't there for it, especially as a retailer, you wouldn't understand some of what led to it. And hindsight is 20/20.

 

As a LCS, you see lost revenue when you sell out of an issue and see your competitor still selling copies and the new shop (which were popping up left and right back then) and the baseball card shops (that carried comics) all still selling copies.

 

You think, I need to order MORE of the next big thing, or I'll lose money and lose customers.

 

And at this point, with Marvel and DC and then Image and then Valiant: Every month they had a book or books that were presented as 'the next big thing'. For a while people bought those books. No one specifically KNEW when they no longer would. So orders kept going up.

 

And what, as a retailer are you going to do when you 50X your normal purchase of a book. Promote it to your customers.

 

Repeat the publishers blurb and sell, sell, sell. And people believed it for a while. Until they had to sell their copies.

 

As an investor, you were gambling. And speculation brought way too many gamblers to the hobby. And that causes problems.

 

Hense the concern with today's modern speculation.

 

Reading through some old magazines a few months ago, I came across some store reports in which they were reporting sales of 2000 copies of random X-Force issue # whatever. In a store in the middle of nowhere. That is non sustainable.

 

But.

 

When you blame the crash on the fact that there were a million copies printed for less than a million people buying, I think you also have to point out that now you have 35,000 copies printed for what is quite possibly more than 35,000 people buying. The volatility on current books (or variants, which is a whole other topic) is simply due to not enough units being there for all the people that want it. That is (more or less) healthy economics.

 

The same arguments were made when the print runs were 5 times higher and the penalty we paid for it was a mass exodus of comic book readers.

 

And yes. There are 2nd prints. And digital comics. And trades. But there are still an overwhelming group of fans that wants the "real deal."

 

The 'real deal' being a lottery ticket? Sounds all too familiar.

The real deal is a copy you can read.

 

So is a lot of the speculation (X-Force #2) a little stupid? Sure. But it is fun. And people make money so hooray.

 

Gamblers always say, "I'm up for the year!"

 

But I think comparing something in which 1/50 of 1% (to just completely make up a number that seems reasonable) of the population is expected to purchase 1.2 million of something, to a situation in which 1/50 of 1% of the population is expected to purchase 35,000 of something is not exactly apples to apples.

 

Here's how it happened then, here's how it happened now:

Comic sales are in decline.

The Independent market comes to life and gives an interesting alternative.

Marvel and DC jump to life and glut the market and take back that shelf space.

Some creators claim independence, publish themselves and rehash more superhero nonsense.

Readers get excited but so do speculators as print runs go up and a 'buzz' is in the air.

 

Now all we're waiting for is Marvel to try and be their own distributor again and this time completely cripple the hobby.

 

[HarveySwick]

I had just started collecting in the early 1990's (about a year or so before the Death of Superman).

 

I remember going to my LCS on a new book day when the Deathmate books were coming out. I was on great terms with the owner, so he allowed me to hang out in the back room while they sorted out the shipment. I remember seeing that day a huge stack of Deathmate books that dwarfed everything else that was laid out for the week. When I asked why he had so many copies, the owner told me that one of his regular pull list customers had ordered 50-100 copies of each of the Deathmate books.

 

As it turned out, that same customer was ordering at least 50 copies or more of all of the new Image books, as well as Valiant releases (he had jumped on board that ship after Valiant's initial success, ordering those huge quantities during the time of the releases of Ninjak, Bloodshot, Secret Weapons, and Turok), and a few other independent releases (Warriors of Plasm, anyone?). It's those huge stacks that I think of first when I think of the 90's -- speculation at its craziest.

 

I'm pretty sure that guy doesn't collect anymore.

In the 90's, I was working at a baseball card/comic shop my father owned. This above post is pretty accurate on how I remember it. When I dig through my books, I find five copies of Ninjak #1, six copies of Bloodshot #1, five copies of Turok #1, three of each Deathmate, several copies of Warriors of Plasm, Dogs of War, Charlemagne and whatever other #1 came out at the time.

 

I was a young teen so money was limited. I really just feel that I was spending my money on multiple issues of "moderns" instead of going after back issues. When I hear about the prices of SA/BA books I feel

 

Someone mentioned the internet and I think this somewhat had a play in things. It's not like I could head to eBay or ComicLink or a similar site and buy whatever I was looking for. I was limited to what the few LCS in my area had. I understand people will say I could have bought back issues through mail order companies. But it's not like I had a checking account to send payment. I just bought what was readily available. What was readily available were the modern drek that was coming out.

 

And "#1's" definitely were the big thing. I remember #1's for EVERYTHING! And you had to buy multiples because Wizard said it was going to be huge ( I bought multiple Wizards every month - one to cut up and use the images to make collages and what not and the other to "bag and board" ).

 

Sadly, this did grow old pretty fast. My long boxes began to grow with junk that everyone else had 20 copies of so what was I going to do with these. Now they're in my attic. I'll just donate them someday. But as much as everyone sees the "bubble bursting" again with all of the speculation being done these days with the latest " #1's", I can't see it fully bursting again. Partly for the fact that it is there is much easier access to back issues or books people are looking for. I hope that the phase of 36 variant covers for the latest Marvel #1 (reboot) will wear people out and they'll stop buying them and companies will stop making them. But I think moderns comics with interesting and diverse stories that aren't limited to superheroes are bringing more people to comics that normally wouldn't have collected superhero stuff. I think as long as that continues to grow, I can't see gimmicks, variants and speculation leading to anything more than those treating comics no different than stocks getting burnt out and leaving.

[bronze_rules]

Death of Superman. Sorry, only one copy per customer...this item is hot hot hot.

 

I was completely out of comics at that point... but, boy, the news and everything was rampant about this must have and... I -- even bought one.

[RCheli]

With the amount of books coming out, it was a real -shoot for stores when ordering. They weren't able to read the majority of the books because there were just so many, so they couldn't properly sell them.

 

I mean, part of selling anything is being able to tell your customer why they should read them. This is especially important for hidden gems. I think there were a lot of stores who hyped up Valiant because they liked the books. But by the time Valiant exploded (and Shooter was gone), shop owners weren't reading a lot of them, and they couldn't give their opinions on what was good any more.

 

And the way that comics are ordered -- three months in advance -- you were often times stuck with too many issue #2, 3, and 4, before you were able to adjust your numbers.

 

I was working in a shop at the time (user comicstock was one of the co-owners) and there were some huge days at the stores. Huge. We'd call back and forth between the shops with sales numbers that were better than the previous week.

 

And then... crash.

[Dr. Balls]

I really just feel that I was spending my money on multiple issues of "moderns" instead of going after back issues. When I hear about the prices of SA/BA books I feel

 

You gotta remember that while a Thor #165 was going for $10 in Fine, it was going to stay at that price (seemingly) forever. If you bought a Lady Death #1 for $10, there was a good chance it'd double in a week. Hard to ignore that aspect of collecting/speculation.

 

Ultimately, it came crashing down - but hindsight is 20/20. Of course buying BA/SA would have been preferable, but at the time - moderns were making a killing in the aftermarket. Very similar to what is happening now.

[Dr. Balls]

Death of Superman. Sorry, only one copy per customer...this item is hot hot hot.

 

I was completely out of comics at that point... but, boy, the news and everything was rampant about this must have and... I -- even bought one.

 

I lived in a small town, and that issue was underordered at all the shops. It spiked to $75 within the first week it came out, and no one could find it (and before the mail-order solicitations showed up). I remember ordering them for $10 via mail order and sold them hand over fist for $50 three weeks after they came out.

 

People came into the store buying these and saying 'I'm going to put this away for my grandkids right when I get home, and they'll get rich'. It was insane. I'm sure there's half a million copies tucked away in non-collector's homes across the country.

[RCheli]

People came into the store buying these and saying 'I'm going to put this away for my grandkids right when I get home, and they'll get rich'. It was insane. I'm sure there's half a million copies tucked away in non-collector's homes across the country.

 

The problem wasn't Superman #75 (which, while not retirement worthy, consistently sells for twice of cover or more) but with the Reign of the Superman . People who missed out on the death were coming in like crazy for the next storyline, when issues were plentiful.

[ThreeSeas]

I was still buying new comics during this period, up to 1998 when the comic shop I went to closed for good. Even during the speculator craze I was still able to get my new comics at a minimum 25% off cover. For a 14 year period from 1984 until 1998 I got my new comics for at least that discount, including the hottest issues for the same discount. Of course I had spent $1,500 to $2,000 a year in new issues at his store and I was always dependable, so that must have counted for something. My comic shop never asked me for more money for the new hotter books and I still have them.

 

The store owner had more than a few people submit pull lists and then never show up to get their comics - I was never one of them. I remember thinking that the store owner must be getting his comics for around half cover price, so he had a constant 20% profit from me. To this day I am still reluctant to pay cover price for new comics. I guess I got spoiled.

 

Luckily I never was drawn in to the "got to have the latest hologram or whatever issue" so I do not feel like I ever got burned during the 90’s. I just bought what I enjoyed reading.

 

All in all the 1992+ era was a bit crazier them the black and white craze a few years earlier, at least it felt that way to me. I mean crazier in that people would buy many many copies of the same issue, all expecting to retire on them.

 

There were memories of a few expensive comics that were printed in prior years, like TMNT and others that planted the seeds in the speculator’s gardens. Well those seeds sprouted in the 90’s, only later would they be revealed to be weeds and not the roses or orchids everyone desired.

 

I do not remember too many people buying Silver Age comics or older during this period, so the few I wanted I got at decent prices. I do not remember paying more than a dollar each for some silver age issues during those times the shop owner would buy an older collection. I bought mostly Disney's and Archie's. I just wish I had the money then to buy more of them back then. Heck I wish I had bought more of the DC checker board cover comics as those were good reading too.

 

[Buzzetta]

The 90's was a time period when I could (and did) trade a Gen 13 boxed set for a copy of ASM #5.

[romanheart]

If not for the price of a comic, I don't see why we can't boom again. A marketing strategy to put spinner racks in common locations again and advertisements on tv would would really make things hot again.

[RCheli]

If not for the price of a comic, I don't see why we can't boom again. A marketing strategy to put spinner racks in common locations again and advertisements on tv would would really make things hot again.

 

We don't want/need a boom like the early 90s. That nearly killed comics.

[kimik]

I remember going to the LCS I mail ordered from, Grpahic Fantasy in West Edmonton Mall (I lived in the country), the weekend after McSpidey #1 came out. There were speculators hauling out long boxes of the regular, silver and gold covers. 10+ years later a small part time dealer ended up having some of those long boxes (1 had the store biz card in it) come in and he was selling them at $1 apiece so I grabbed a few.

 

That being said, talking to one of the long time LCS owners a few months back, he said it was easy to speculate on new #1s, 1st apps, and other projected hot books back then for the simple reason that it would cost $0.50 or less apiece per copy. He is still pulling out short/long boxes of stuff he speculated in back then. One book was NM #98 - he had a short box of copies sitting from day of release until he started pulling them out a couple of years ago (he started selling them at $25 and walked them up to $95 - I bought most of mine from $50 - $75 from him). Last fall he broke out a case each of McSpidey #1 Silver and Infinity Gauntlet #1 for the EdmontonExpo that he was selling for $5 apiece. For his boxing day sale this year he had a pile of Spawn #9s at $10 that were 50% off (I snagged a small stack). Every so often he pulls out another box or two of spec books that he paid $0.50 - $1.00 and moves them for $5+. Not sure what his rate of return is after storing them for so long, but they were paid off long ago and he is able to sell them now so it works.

[RCheli]

The comic industry right now is extremely healthy.

 

A high percentage of comics purchased are actually being read, compared with the 90s (or even the 80s).

 

The strong trade program means that stories are staying in print and are easily and (for the most part) cheaply accessible to new and old readers.

 

Libraries have embraced comic books fully.

 

There are more all ages comics being published now than at any time in the past 25 years.

 

And the largest moves of the past 15 years have been either about comic book characters or directly lifted from the comic book "idea".

[rob_allan]

I remember getting my mom to take me to my first comic convention as a kid so I could get a copy of Bloodshot #1 with the world's first ever chromium cover. It only cost $30 there and I knew I'd gotten a DEAL.

 

The 90s boom. Ugh.

[Logan510]

The comic industry right now is extremely healthy.

 

 

[RCheli]

The comic industry right now is extremely healthy.

 

 

 

Are the number of comic stores growing or shrinking?

 

Are the number of conventions growing or shrinking?

 

Are the number of readers growing or shrinking?

 

Are Shrinky Dinks growing or shrinking?

[Jeffro.]

Looking back on it now, I should have ceased buying new comics (and sportscards ) and instead put that cash into bronze and silver. Oh well, such is life

 

Yeah I put some money into sportscards too. Sold off most.

 

Had I put it into vintage cards, I probably would have done okay. No, I bought new stuff

[Wilson3d]

When the McFarlane Spider-Man was released, there was a line over 50 people long an hour before my favorite LCS opened. I remember this fondly because my grandfather drove me there and then waited for me in the car. When I bought my regular copies, I also wanted to buy multiples of the bagged edition but the store was limiting it to one per customer. I told my grandfather so he went in and waited a half hour to get me a second copy. Obviously I could never sell that one even if it was worth selling. He was one cool dude.

 

 

Great story!

[Wilson3d]

I had just started collecting in the early 1990's (about a year or so before the Death of Superman).

 

I remember going to my LCS on a new book day when the Deathmate books were coming out. I was on great terms with the owner, so he allowed me to hang out in the back room while they sorted out the shipment. I remember seeing that day a huge stack of Deathmate books that dwarfed everything else that was laid out for the week. When I asked why he had so many copies, the owner told me that one of his regular pull list customers had ordered 50-100 copies of each of the Deathmate books.

 

As it turned out, that same customer was ordering at least 50 copies or more of all of the new Image books, as well as Valiant releases (he had jumped on board that ship after Valiant's initial success, ordering those huge quantities during the time of the releases of Ninjak, Bloodshot, Secret Weapons, and Turok), and a few other independent releases (Warriors of Plasm, anyone?). It's those huge stacks that I think of first when I think of the 90's -- speculation at its craziest.

 

I'm pretty sure that guy doesn't collect anymore.

 

I'm not sure if it's like this with moderns today, but this was the biggest thing that was different, people were buying multiple copies of each issue. Not just 2-3 but 10-20. I felt victim to X-force 1 and X-men 1 but stopped shortly after that.

 

I was totally with you on this one! When I was recently going though the bulk of my collection from that time I came across my X-Force comics. I had 10 #1's and 5-10 #s 2s and form there it slowly went down in #. I would love to sell the 2s to make up a little of the money.

 

As I was going through them I was thinking - I could have been spending this on Silver Age books but at the time, I was just into the fun speculation craze.