State of the Market Going into 2015

[Phill the Governor]

I disagree with Walking Dead. I dont know of anyone who watches the TV and not a comic book reader have picked up the comic book. The two have very different audiences. Walking Dead is HOT now but it could end up like so many early Image comics that commanded alot of money for the OA but now they don't resell at the same levels.

 

We're talking about art though, not comics.

 

edit: Missed that last part you said.

 

 

I will say, however, that as mentioned above: Books like Sandman and Walking Dead (amongst others) have many readers who don't read many other comics if any. Just like Watchmen.

 

While adults in each new generation read comics, not many will be reading things like 60s X-Men. While historical titles like the former will always retain a lot of value, they aren't being reread generation after generation like the adult oriented comics. Inevitably, new collectors will emerge in each generation and it seems (likely) to me that more will want art from the adult oriented comics than the historically relevant stuff.

[Brian Peck]

But people collect OA from comics they read. I responded to Felix comparing WD and Watchmen. Watchmen has a big audience outside of just the usual comic book reader. I know alot of people who like the Watchmen Trade but dont read any other comics. So some of those fans of the comic will want a page from it

[Nexus]

I disagree with Walking Dead. I dont know of anyone who watches the TV and not a comic book reader have picked up the comic book. The two have very different audiences.

 

I know plenty of people who discovered the comic after being exposed to the show. I just Googled "Walking Dead Compendium" and this popped up:

 

The Walking Dead’ Boosts Sales, Interest in Graphic Novels

http://variety.com/2013/biz/news/the-walking-dead-boosts-sales-interest-in-graphic-novels-1200563993/

 

DC/Warners put one million copies in print for WATCHMEN in 2009. The movie only did OK, but the book killed. It became a mainstay on numerous bestseller lists. The book didn't sell only to established comic book readers (who, in all likelihood, had already read it) to achieve those sales.

 

Similarly, THE WALKING DEAD COMPENDIUM, is a sales beast. It's a fixture in all book stores, not just comic shops. Not to mention Amazon. And that's with a $60 cover price.

 

WATCHMEN "is one of the things people read who are not into comics". Guess what? So is WD.

 

Walking Dead is HOT now but it could end up like so many early Image comics that commanded alot of money for the OA but now they don't resell at the same levels.

 

Which early Image comics OA used to command a lot of money, but don't anymore? I'm trying to come up with examples, but I'm stumped. I was not a fan of early Image comics, so I don't know much about those books.

 

 

[Nexus]

But people collect OA from comics they read. I responded to Felix comparing WD and Watchmen. Watchmen has a big audience outside of just the usual comic book reader. I know alot of people who like the Watchmen Trade but dont read any other comics. So some of those fans of the comic will want a page from it

 

At this point, I'd say WD is bigger than WM. Much more awareness of WD as a property with Joe Public than WM. This has nothing to do with OA values, or potential values...I'm not trying to draw any comparisons there. But just in terms of pop culture, no question in my mind that WD has far eclipsed WM, thanks to the TV show.

[stinkininkin]

I disagree with Walking Dead. I dont know of anyone who watches the TV and not a comic book reader have picked up the comic book. The two have very different audiences. Walking Dead is HOT now but it could end up like so many early Image comics that commanded alot of money for the OA but now they don't resell at the same levels.

 

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but your Image example isn't great. On the main early Image titles I worked on (Wildcats, Cyberforce, and Wetworks), the art is definitely selling for more now than it did back then when it was "hot", often a lot more. I was sitting on a ton of it until a few years ago and sold some lower end pages ($100-200) online and at shows. Once that hit the market, buyers for the better pages, splashes and covers came out of the woodwork, and I've now sold a lot of that stuff at multiples of what we were selling it for back in the day. It's nostalgia, and the fans from those days have grown up and have money to spend on this art.

 

One last factoid--it is now definitely easier for me to sell a good Lee/Williams Batman Hush page WITH NO WORD BALLOONS for more $$$$ than a comparable quality Lee/Williams Xmen page WITH WORD BALLOONS. While it's not a very big price bump on the Hush art, it is noticeable and I probably get asked about selling Hush art 2 to 1 over Xmen art, and the Xmen stuff is what really put us on the map and has an extra 10 years of nostalgia behind it. So wordless is not going to always be a factor.

 

My

 

Scott

[Brian Peck]

The TV series has helped make it popular and it is the HOT thing. Watchmen is almost 30 years old. I don't see Walking Dead being that popular or remembered 30 years from now. Remember POGs, Comic Trading Cards, Pokemon?

[Phill the Governor]

The TV series has helped make it popular and it is the HOT thing. Watchmen is almost 30 years old. I don't see Walking Dead being that popular or remembered 30 years from now. Remember POGs, Comic Trading Cards, Pokemon?

 

 

Pokemon is crazy popular still.

 

There's a WD universe. For better, or worse, it's going to be around for a long time.

[DocR]

The TV series has helped make it popular and it is the HOT thing. Watchmen is almost 30 years old. I don't see Walking Dead being that popular or remembered 30 years from now. Remember POGs, Comic Trading Cards, Pokemon?

 

POGs, oh the memories

[Danimal]

I'd take one of your X-Men pages over a Hush page any day, Scott. But I get what you're saying. I also get what Brian is saying. I can definitely see WD art going the way of POGs in 20 years or so...

[pinupcartoonguy]

In terms of potential value, I'm a little leery in regards OA with a strong TV tie in. I recall not that long ago that Heroes was the hottest thing around, and while Sale's work in general is in demand, I don't see a lot of people clamoring for his Heroes work like they used to.

 

 

 

But people collect OA from comics they read. I responded to Felix comparing WD and Watchmen. Watchmen has a big audience outside of just the usual comic book reader. I know alot of people who like the Watchmen Trade but dont read any other comics. So some of those fans of the comic will want a page from it

 

At this point, I'd say WD is bigger than WM. Much more awareness of WD as a property with Joe Public than WM. This has nothing to do with OA values, or potential values...I'm not trying to draw any comparisons there. But just in terms of pop culture, no question in my mind that WD has far eclipsed WM, thanks to the TV show.

[Nexus]

The TV series has helped make it popular and it is the HOT thing. Watchmen is almost 30 years old. I don't see Walking Dead being that popular or remembered 30 years from now. Remember POGs, Comic Trading Cards, Pokemon?

 

Remember STAR WARS, TMNT, The Beatles? I'm not saying that's where WD is headed, but I wouldn't write it off that easily, either.

 

(And actually, Pokemon is still a thing. My daughter and her friends are fans.)

 

Anyway, the discussion wasn't about the future. The issue was whether or not WD would reach SA values. Relative to the majority of SA, the most sought-after WD OA already has. That may be hard for you to wrap your head around, but there you go.

[J.Sid]

One last factoid--it is now definitely easier for me to sell a good Lee/Williams Batman Hush page WITH NO WORD BALLOONS for more $$$$ than a comparable quality Lee/Williams Xmen page WITH WORD BALLOONS. While it's not a very big price bump on the Hush art, it is noticeable and I probably get asked about selling Hush art 2 to 1 over Xmen art, and the Xmen stuff is what really put us on the map and has an extra 10 years of nostalgia behind it. So wordless is not going to always be a factor.

 

My

 

Scott

 

THAT is pretty interesting.

 

Quick question for clarification: Are you talking about a Hush page with Batman on it vs. an X-Men page with Wolverine on it?... or Batman pg vs. a less popular X-Men member page?

 

(Also, are we talking X-Men or Uncanny X-Men?)

 

 

[Nexus]

In terms of potential value, I'm a little leery in regards OA with a strong TV tie in. I recall not that long ago that Heroes was the hottest thing around, and while Sale's work in general is in demand, I don't see a lot of people clamoring for his Heroes work like they used to.

 

As a general rule, I'd agree. Except that WD is not a network show-- for a lot of younger viewers, it's the equivalent of their first R-rated movie-- and its audience has grown with each season. Whereas HEROES had one good season and then went completely off the rails.

 

 

[Brian Peck]

Heroes is the perfect example. Everyone wanted Heroes art by Sale when the TV series was on. Sale's art was super popularity but his art has dropped since then. Still popular but not on the scale it was.

[stinkininkin]

One last factoid--it is now definitely easier for me to sell a good Lee/Williams Batman Hush page WITH NO WORD BALLOONS for more $$$$ than a comparable quality Lee/Williams Xmen page WITH WORD BALLOONS. While it's not a very big price bump on the Hush art, it is noticeable and I probably get asked about selling Hush art 2 to 1 over Xmen art, and the Xmen stuff is what really put us on the map and has an extra 10 years of nostalgia behind it. So wordless is not going to always be a factor.

 

My

 

Scott

 

THAT is pretty interesting.

 

Quick question for clarification: Are you talking about a Hush page with Batman on it vs. an X-Men page with Wolverine on it?... or Batman pg vs. a less popular X-Men member page?

 

(Also, are we talking X-Men or Uncanny X-Men?)

 

 

I'm speaking generally. What seems comparable to me might not seem as comparable to you so your mileage may vary. But yes, a good Batman page versus a good Xmen page with Wolverine would be a fair comp.

 

And maybe 10 years ago there seemed to be more interest in our Uncanny stuff, but now it doesn't seem to matter nearly as much, if at all.

 

Anyway, the more interesting point is level of inquiry in the wordless Hush art versus the lettered Xmen art. I will usually get an email asking "do you have any Xmen or Hush art to sell'? Or I get asked "Do you have any Hush art to sell"? But only occasionally do I get asked about Xmen alone. Just an observation for what it's worth.

 

 

Scott

[Nexus]

Heroes is the perfect example. Everyone wanted Heroes art by Sale when the TV series was on. Sale's art was super popularity but his art has dropped since then. Still popular but not on the scale it was.

.

 

If you really think HEROES is a "perfect example", then there's no point continuing this. Time will tell.

 

 

[Brian Peck]

The TV series has helped make it popular and it is the HOT thing. Watchmen is almost 30 years old. I don't see Walking Dead being that popular or remembered 30 years from now. Remember POGs, Comic Trading Cards, Pokemon?

 

Remember STAR WARS, TMNT, The Beatles? I'm not saying that's where WD is headed, but I wouldn't write it off that easily, either.

 

(And actually, Pokemon is still a thing. My daughter and her friends are fans.)

 

Anyway, the discussion wasn't about the future. The issue was whether or not WD would reach SA values. Relative to the majority of SA, the most sought-after WD OA already has. That may be hard for you to wrap your head around, but there you go.

 

Pokemon might be popular with some but not on the scale it used to me. No WD hasn't reached SA values. You are lumping all WD art into one and the values are all over the place, earlier art getting alot, later go for less. I bet the values also depend on who the artist is and the issue. Watchmen was limited to 12 issues and one artist so very limited number of pieces from the series. WD has alot more art.

 

 

[J.Sid]

 

I'm speaking generally. What seems comparable to me might not seem as comparable to you so your mileage may vary. But yes, a good Batman page versus a good Xmen page with Wolverine would be a fair comp.

 

And maybe 10 years ago there seemed to be more interest in our Uncanny stuff, but now it doesn't seem to matter nearly as much, if at all.

 

Anyway, the more interesting point is level of inquiry in the wordless Hush art versus the lettered Xmen art. I will usually get an email asking "do you have any Xmen or Hush art to sell'? Or I get asked "Do you have any Hush art to sell"? But only occasionally do I get asked about Xmen alone. Just an observation for what it's worth.

 

 

Scott

 

Thanks-- I was wondering if there might be other factors because the information was not what I'd expected it to be. Interesting point about XM/UXM, too.

 

Makes sense though. Hush was crazy popular while it was coming out. It had been a loooong time since comic stores had a buzz like that over a storyline. Furthermore, it's now 10+ years old. Hardly "new" art.

[J.Sid]

No insight can be gained from Walking Dead/Heroes comparisons IMO.

[Nexus]

The TV series has helped make it popular and it is the HOT thing. Watchmen is almost 30 years old. I don't see Walking Dead being that popular or remembered 30 years from now. Remember POGs, Comic Trading Cards, Pokemon?

 

Remember STAR WARS, TMNT, The Beatles? I'm not saying that's where WD is headed, but I wouldn't write it off that easily, either.

 

(And actually, Pokemon is still a thing. My daughter and her friends are fans.)

 

Anyway, the discussion wasn't about the future. The issue was whether or not WD would reach SA values. Relative to the majority of SA, the most sought-after WD OA already has. That may be hard for you to wrap your head around, but there you go.

 

Pokemon might be popular with some but not on the scale it used to me. No WD hasn't reached SA values. You are lumping all WD art into one and the values are all over the place, earlier art getting alot, later go for less. I bet the values also depend on who the artist is and the issue. Watchmen was limited to 12 issues and one artist so very limited number of pieces from the series. WD has alot more art.

 

 

You missed the part where I said "most sought-after WD OA". That does not mean all WD art. Using the "A-level interior page" list, "A-level" interior WD pages already exceeds the majority of SA OA and actually even matches up with certain "A-level" SA pages, value-wise. This would include:

 

Swan - Superman 2up

Kubert - Hawkman/War Art 2up

Sekowsky - JLA 2up (Crisis issues)

Buscema - Avengers 1st run

Neal Adams - Deadman/Green Lantern/Avengers

Colan - Daredevil

 

If we're talking about Tony Moore art specifically, I think you can bump it up to the next level, which includes:

 

Romita - Spider-man small-art

Neal Adams - Batman/X-men

Kane/Sprang - Batman 2up

John Buscema - Silver Surfer

BWS - Conan

Frazetta - Thun’da/Others

Kirby/Stone - Journey into Mystery/X-men 2up

Kirby FF - small-art

Everett - GA work

 

I make no prediction about sustainability. Given the same cost, I'll go with SA. But those values are the reality now.