Action Comics #2 CGC 9.4

[batman_fan]

Regardless of this book, if CGC can detect that the cover was cleaned, they ought to put a note on the label saying HOW it appeared to be clean. Matt Nelson does a dry cleaning of almost everything and that's okay with me. others use a bath that raises the fibers and dulls the gloss. It seems to me that the current designation is a bit too broad. Some cleaning is universal and some cleaning is a PLOD.

 

I have no insight on where the current book falls.

 

If the book were dry clean, it would be in a standard blue label so some type of wet cleaning was used.

[woowoo]

PLOD is a PLOD is a PLOD.

No, big difference between conserved and a frankenbook.

 

restored is restored....call it what it is....sugar coated rest....

 

It is clear that there are a number of people to whom any touching of a comic book with the intent to improve will garner the same response as an 18th century Arabian Sheik leaning that his new bride was deflowered.

 

To them, a dot of color touch is like hearing there was a dot of "wiener touch" -- meaning somebody rubbed his wiener on the book (no doubt while laughing maniacally.

 

So, they can't even fathom defining a difference between "slight wiener touch' or "professional, removable wiener touch." They can't even look at the book without thinking of how someone wiener once defiled the book.

 

On the other hand, intentional markings on books -- inventory codes, dates, etc are acceptable. Sun shadows, no problem. Pieces missing is better than pieces replaced, because it means there was no wiener involved.

 

 

 

If it has wiener touch than its Restored.

If it has glue or tape its a blue wiener.

Thanks learn everyday.

 

You've got it!

 

If it's blue, the word "glue" just means glue.

 

If it's purple, the word "glue" means pee-pee.

 

Same goes with all other descriptive words. If it's a blue label, the words mean what it says in the dictionary. If it's a purple label, you swap out the crucial word for "pee-pee" (making it a pee-pee label of death). Once you know the code you know that what it's saying is "small amount of pee-pee" on cover or "pee-pee residue on spine."

 

 

 

 

Mr blue would this book get a restored with inch of back cover trim?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACTION-COMICS-13-ORIGINAL-1939-VERY-RARE-/191481080610?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276#ht_124wt_1161

[Primetime]

dry clean - blue

 

water clean, solvent clean - purple

and a water clean will dull the front cover colors.

[bluechip]

PLOD is a PLOD is a PLOD.

No, big difference between conserved and a frankenbook.

 

restored is restored....call it what it is....sugar coated rest....

 

It is clear that there are a number of people to whom any touching of a comic book with the intent to improve will garner the same response as an 18th century Arabian Sheik leaning that his new bride was deflowered.

 

To them, a dot of color touch is like hearing there was a dot of "wiener touch" -- meaning somebody rubbed his wiener on the book (no doubt while laughing maniacally.

 

So, they can't even fathom defining a difference between "slight wiener touch' or "professional, removable wiener touch." They can't even look at the book without thinking of how someone wiener once defiled the book.

 

On the other hand, intentional markings on books -- inventory codes, dates, etc are acceptable. Sun shadows, no problem. Pieces missing is better than pieces replaced, because it means there was no wiener involved.

 

 

 

If it has wiener touch than its Restored.

If it has glue or tape its a blue wiener.

Thanks learn everyday.

 

You've got it!

 

If it's blue, the word "glue" just means glue.

 

If it's purple, the word "glue" means pee-pee.

 

Same goes with all other descriptive words. If it's a blue label, the words mean what it says in the dictionary. If it's a purple label, you swap out the crucial word for "pee-pee" (making it a pee-pee label of death). Once you know the code you know that what it's saying is "small amount of pee-pee" on cover or "pee-pee residue on spine."

 

 

 

 

Mr blue would this book get a restored with inch of back cover trim?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACTION-COMICS-13-ORIGINAL-1939-VERY-RARE-/191481080610?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276#ht_124wt_1161

 

It should be presumed that the front and back cover are taped together at the spine and that the cover is from another copy of Action 13 (or another issue published simultaneously) Many would say that makes it not only restored but modified, and they would be technically correct Buyers should determine for themselves whether that is better or worse than it being touched by a wiener.

 

 

[Heronext]

Beautiful book !

 

Agreed, wet cleaning should be full purple label

[woowoo]

I have a nice Action 13 white page 5.0 no tape nothing but the coupon on back cover was clip what grade would this get if it was a 5.0 coupon clip.

 

green Blue ?

[cheetah]

I will freely volunteer that a book with a cleaned cleaned is either a blue label or a purple label but is never a conserved label. How does cover cleaning prevent further degradation of a book?

 

I smell the long arm of deep pockets influencing the process to get a book to sell for a little more. I would dearly love for CGC to explain how they see cover cleaning as conservation.

[jimjum12]

I will freely volunteer that a book with a cleaned cleaned is either a blue label or a purple label but is never a conserved label. How does cover cleaning prevent further degradation of a book?

 

I smell the long arm of deep pockets influencing the process to get a book to sell for a little more. I would dearly love for CGC to explain how they see cover cleaning as conservation.

 

....many types of foreign substances will cause further degradation to paper over time..... as will mold and fungus. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[tth2]

Cleaning the cover does not actually or necessarily "conserve" anything, but it has indeed "restored" it to a more pristine state. Comic books are not one of a kind paintings on canvas by great masters. They are mass produced, disposable items, regardless of how old they are. They are more like antiques and will always be far more desirable and pricey the closer they are naturally to their original state as possible. This is not a knock against this book, but it has been restored, and while CGC has clearly tried to do it a favor by dropping it into this holder with this kind of label, it is still a restored book nonetheless, and the price will reflect that, as many potential suitors will choose to temper their bidding or remain on the sideline altogether.

 

-J.

(thumbs u

[tth2]

PLOD is a PLOD is a PLOD.

No, big difference between conserved and a frankenbook.

 

restored is restored....call it what it is....sugar coated rest....

Ah jeez, now I have to completely change my opinion!

[woowoo]

PLOD is a PLOD is a PLOD.

No, big difference between conserved and a frankenbook.

 

restored is restored....call it what it is....sugar coated rest....

Ah jeez, now I have to completely change my opinion!

 

 

 

[MrBedrock]

Cleaning the cover does not actually or necessarily "conserve" anything, but it has indeed "restored" it to a more pristine state. Comic books are not one of a kind paintings on canvas by great masters. They are mass produced, disposable items, regardless of how old they are. They are more like antiques and will always be far more desirable and pricey the closer they are naturally to their original state as possible. This is not a knock against this book, but it has been restored, and while CGC has clearly tried to do it a favor by dropping it into this holder with this kind of label, it is still a restored book nonetheless, and the price will reflect that, as many potential suitors will choose to temper their bidding or remain on the sideline altogether.

 

-J.

(thumbs u

"They are more like antiques and will always be far more desirable and pricey the closer they are naturally to their original state as possible."

 

 

Their natural original state did not include soiling on the cover, or staining, or buggers, or any other foreign substance. Seems to me by this logic a well executed wet cleaning which returns the cover to its natural original state should increase value.

 

 

[Dale Roberts]

Cleaning the cover does not actually or necessarily "conserve" anything, but it has indeed "restored" it to a more pristine state. Comic books are not one of a kind paintings on canvas by great masters. They are mass produced, disposable items, regardless of how old they are. They are more like antiques and will always be far more desirable and pricey the closer they are naturally to their original state as possible. This is not a knock against this book, but it has been restored, and while CGC has clearly tried to do it a favor by dropping it into this holder with this kind of label, it is still a restored book nonetheless, and the price will reflect that, as many potential suitors will choose to temper their bidding or remain on the sideline altogether.

 

-J.

(thumbs u

"They are more like antiques and will always be far more desirable and pricey the closer they are naturally to their original state as possible."

 

 

Their natural original state did not include soiling on the cover, or staining, or buggers, or any other foreign substance. Seems to me by this logic a well executed wet cleaning which returns the cover to its natural original state should increase value.

 

 

[mrmyst]

[bluechip]

Cleaning the cover does not actually or necessarily "conserve" anything, but it has indeed "restored" it to a more pristine state. Comic books are not one of a kind paintings on canvas by great masters. They are mass produced, disposable items, regardless of how old they are. They are more like antiques and will always be far more desirable and pricey the closer they are naturally to their original state as possible. This is not a knock against this book, but it has been restored, and while CGC has clearly tried to do it a favor by dropping it into this holder with this kind of label, it is still a restored book nonetheless, and the price will reflect that, as many potential suitors will choose to temper their bidding or remain on the sideline altogether.

 

-J.

(thumbs u

"They are more like antiques and will always be far more desirable and pricey the closer they are naturally to their original state as possible."

 

 

Their natural original state did not include soiling on the cover, or staining, or buggers, or any other foreign substance. Seems to me by this logic a well executed wet cleaning which returns the cover to its natural original state should increase value.

 

 

I've been in the homes of many rich people who have antiques that were restored or reinforced because they didn't like things to be unsightly or

 

I would guess that the vast majority of people would expect something to be worth more in perfect condition even without needing to be cleaned, but only a very small percentage of people would think an item is desecrated just because somebody "touched" it at some point to clean it.

 

I understand perfectly that some people just cannot bear the thought that somebody touched something but they should not presume that everybody feels the same to the same extent. Some people seem not only to presume that others should feel that way but seem to want to prevent anybody from feeling (or least behaving) as if they feel any differently. And it's that which is causing the out of balance valuations that make a book more valuable if it has numbers written on Superman's face than it would be if there were, instead, a tiny dot of glue or color touch in a corner (because the number on the face is an acceptable alteration but the dot of color in the corner is "desecration")

 

 

 

 

[tth2]

I understand perfectly that some people just cannot bear the thought that somebody touched something but they should not presume that everybody feels the same to the same extent. Some people seem not only to presume that others should feel that way but seem to want to prevent anybody from feeling (or least behaving) as if they feel any differently.

I must have missed the part where I started waving a gun in everyone's face and threatened to shoot them if they paid as much for this "conserved" 9.4 as they would for an untouched blue label 9.4.

 

I was simply expressing my opinion that this was not a "real" 9.4. Seems to me it's YOU that's trying to suppress anyone who wants to distinguish between a "conserved" or "restored" 9.4 and a "real" 9.4.

 

And it's that which is causing the out of balance valuations that make a book more valuable if it has numbers written on Superman's face than it would be if there were, instead, a tiny dot of glue or color touch in a corner (because the number on the face is an acceptable alteration but the dot of color in the corner is "desecration")

I would take this to mean that people are voting with their wallets, and what they're saying is they strongly prefer untouched books. So it seems like their position is closer to mine than it is to yours.

[tth2]

Cleaning the cover does not actually or necessarily "conserve" anything, but it has indeed "restored" it to a more pristine state. Comic books are not one of a kind paintings on canvas by great masters. They are mass produced, disposable items, regardless of how old they are. They are more like antiques and will always be far more desirable and pricey the closer they are naturally to their original state as possible. This is not a knock against this book, but it has been restored, and while CGC has clearly tried to do it a favor by dropping it into this holder with this kind of label, it is still a restored book nonetheless, and the price will reflect that, as many potential suitors will choose to temper their bidding or remain on the sideline altogether.

 

-J.

(thumbs u

"They are more like antiques and will always be far more desirable and pricey the closer they are naturally to their original state as possible."

 

 

Their natural original state did not include soiling on the cover, or staining, or buggers, or any other foreign substance. Seems to me by this logic a well executed wet cleaning which returns the cover to its natural original state should increase value.

 

I would prefer to buy the book that didn't have any staining, or buggers, or any other foreign substance on it in the first place, and thus didn't need any artificial assistance to resemble its natural original state.

[Jaydogrules]

Cleaning the cover does not actually or necessarily "conserve" anything, but it has indeed "restored" it to a more pristine state. Comic books are not one of a kind paintings on canvas by great masters. They are mass produced, disposable items, regardless of how old they are. They are more like antiques and will always be far more desirable and pricey the closer they are naturally to their original state as possible. This is not a knock against this book, but it has been restored, and while CGC has clearly tried to do it a favor by dropping it into this holder with this kind of label, it is still a restored book nonetheless, and the price will reflect that, as many potential suitors will choose to temper their bidding or remain on the sideline altogether.

 

-J.

(thumbs u

"They are more like antiques and will always be far more desirable and pricey the closer they are naturally to their original state as possible."

 

 

Their natural original state did not include soiling on the cover, or staining, or buggers, or any other foreign substance. Seems to me by this logic a well executed wet cleaning which returns the cover to its natural original state should increase value.

 

 

The comparison began and ended with the fact that restoring antiques kills the market value and greatly reduces the buyer pool, just as it does with comic books. Antique collectors don't want the natural patina smeared off an item anymore so than a high end comic collector wants a book that was disassembled and soaked in acid. People who do decide to purchase such restored items and comic books do so because they can acquire them at a significant discount. And yet then those same purchasers turn around and wonder why their restored items are worth so much less and seemingly attempt to "talk up" the value and desirability of them. I don't get it. Isn't the whole point of the restored market to give greater access to books that would normally be out of reach for those who do not mind restored?

 

-J.

[bluechip]

I understand perfectly that some people just cannot bear the thought that somebody touched something but they should not presume that everybody feels the same to the same extent. Some people seem not only to presume that others should feel that way but seem to want to prevent anybody from feeling (or least behaving) as if they feel any differently.

I must have missed the part where I started waving a gun in everyone's face and threatened to shoot them if they paid as much for this "conserved" 9.4 as they would for an untouched blue label 9.4.

 

I was simply expressing my opinion that this was not a "real" 9.4. Seems to me it's YOU that's trying to suppress anyone who wants to distinguish between a "conserved" or "restored" 9.4 and a "real" 9.4.

 

And it's that which is causing the out of balance valuations that make a book more valuable if it has numbers written on Superman's face than it would be if there were, instead, a tiny dot of glue or color touch in a corner (because the number on the face is an acceptable alteration but the dot of color in the corner is "desecration")

I would take this to mean that people are voting with their wallets, and what they're saying is they strongly prefer untouched books. So it seems like their position is closer to mine than it is to yours.

 

I wasn't even thinking about what your position is. I thought I was riffing on Mitch Mehdy.

 

Also, it's incorrect to say I said or implied that there is no difference between conservation and restoration. I didn't say anything about that. But for the record, I do think there's a difference, because the words have different meanings.

 

And, for the record, I do expect perfect condition untouched books to be worth more and believe they should be worth more than untouched counterparts.

 

But I believe that others take that to an extreme when they say a low grade has been "desecrated" if it has a tiny amount of color touch and should be worth a fraction of a similar condition book, or even a worse condition book, whose defects were divined to have occurred accidentally or in some intentional way that is nevertheless approved.

 

What I had talked about was that the purple labels sometimes use the same words as blue labels, and the CW has become to presume that, despite having the same words on the labels, what was done on the book in the purple label is presumed to be "bad" -- in fact, to some, it's supposed to mean so bad that it must be avoided, no matter how small the "work" and that, effectively, they avoid a book with "color touch" in a purple label the same as they would a book that has the words "touched by a wiener."

 

The fact that some people feel that way is perfectly fine. You can want or avoid a book for any reason you like.

 

And, as for voting with their wallets, people should do that.

 

But I think there's plenty of evidence to show that the values are out of balance and do not reflect simply who is voting with their wallets because they feel strongly that a book with a dot of color touch in a corner is worth less than the same book with the corner torn off.

 

Case in point: I also have behaved as if I believe that, even though I don't.

 

I have avoided books that I believe should be worth more and I believe in the long run will be worth more, but I know that the effect of the purple label and the determination of people who believe that is causing an effect on prices beyond what it would be if people were simply voting with their wallets and not seeking to have an impact on what other are willing to pay.

 

(some vote with their wallets; but the people with the biggest impact are the ones who freak out at the thought anyone would vote differently, and want the label color to reinforce the notion of which books they believe should be avoided; hence the endless debates about what should or shouldn't bring a colored label. And hence we have people explaining that the word "cleaned" on a blue label means "dry cleaned" and "cleaned" on a purple label means "wet or solvent cleaned." And few if any dare to suggest that perhaps it would be simpler if the labels were differentiated not by color but by the first label saying "dry cleaned" while the second label says "solvent cleaned" I think perhaps the reason there may be little support for that among those who think color touch is desecration because perhaps they feel people might vote with their wallets differently if the labels used words instead of colors (and I do NOT presume to know how you feel about that)

 

I tell people to avoid books that I believe they should buy, not because I hate a color touched book more than I hate with greater damage that was done accidentally.

 

I tell them to avoid color touched books because of the efforts to suppress their prices and because of the colored labels which make people like me avoid books they would otherwise have no problem purchasing.

 

 

[MrBedrock]

Isn't the whole point of the restored market to give greater access to books that would normally be out of reach for those who do not mind restored?

 

-J.

There is no restored market. There is a comic book market. There are restored comic books books. The point of restoration is to make ugly books more presentable. When disclosed and labeled it really doesn't have anything to do with price. All of the talk about restoration vs. price in this thread seems to be in direct correlation to the views of collectors who tend to poo poo on books with restoration because they don't view those books as worthy of being in their collections. Those same collectors generally also do not collect low grade books, yet they don't come on and rag on those books because of the defects. In this case the book is clearly labeled as to what has been done to it. So why is it even a discussion? The comic market will decide its value, not the restored market...or the conserved market...or any other subset which is looked on as inferior by the high grade collecting purists who love to bash restoration.