Pedigree Collections!!

[PUNYHUMAN]

I don't know if this has been discussed before,but in your opinion on these boards ,how many more do you think will surface in the coming years?? I think , myself there will be many more high grade Silver Age collections, one owner. "OO"

But in your opinion also , how about OO Golden Age Collections ,I think there is very few left,IMO!!! I doubt anything may ever come along & equal the Church,San Francisco,Larsen, in quanity & quality. I myself ,hope I'm wrong!!! What do you guys think?? Love to hear your Opinions!!

[sfilosa]

The question is:

 

How many will CGC consider pedigrees.

 

They don't seem to be giving out pedigree designations to Silver-Age collections. My guess is unless the collection has MOST of the KEY ISSUES in 9.0 or better, they won't do it.

 

That's not to say their are a dozen or more OO Collections that would have been considered pedigrees prior to CGC.

 

Golden Age, my best guess would be less than FIVE. Considering that the early GA books are over 60 years old, it's hard to image a lot more OO Collections coming out of the woodwork. And the last ones that have, usually have some decent High-Grade books but many of the keys are no better than VG's to FN (which is still great for a 60 year old book).

 

Best bet is for a few more OO Collections that have some 50's to early SA books.

[TomG]

Good question. We will see a number of what I would call original owner collections. As for Pedigree collections I think it is still possible. I remember having this conversation 10 years ago with a fellow collector who said that there would not be any more major Pedigree collections found. And how many have turned up since then.

 

I think there will still be a few Golden Age Pedigree collections to turn up, as it is not impossible for them to still exist. A good example is what about an original Golden Age collection that was given to a younger brother when the older brother went off to fight in WWII. If the collection was packed away and left in storage for years it would still be from the original owners family.

 

 

[skybolt]

Good question. We will see a number of what I would call original owner collections. As for Pedigree collections I think it is still possible. I remember having this conversation 10 years ago with a fellow collector who said that there would not be any more major Pedigree collections found. And how many have turned up since then.

 

I think there will still be a few Golden Age Pedigree collections to turn up, as it is not impossible for them to still exist. A good example is what about an original Golden Age collection that was given to a younger brother when the older brother went off to fight in WWII. If the collection was packed away and left in storage for years it would still be from the original owners family.

 

 

What about high grade GA books in general. In your opinion do you think most of these books have yet to be graded?

[esquirecomics]

I agree that there are no doubt still copies of GA books out there we don't know about, including some in high grade, but not in large numbers.The next 10-15 years will likely reveal the missing books as the old timers pass on. For the key GA books, such as Action #1, Superman #1, More Fun #52, etc., we pretty much know probably at least 90% of what exists even though they may not be slabbed. From what I understand from some of the major dealers/collectors, unslabbed versions exist primarily b/c they would come back restored, particularly due to color touching, which was apparently the in-thing during the 1980s.

 

I am much, much more inclined to invest big bucks in a beautiful GA book (or even a lower grade key book) b/c it is doubtful another will show up anytime soon. Yet, if you go by an ASM #1 CGC 9.2, which is a gorgeous book and a nice investment, 2 weeks later 2 more 9.2s and one 9.4 shows up! I have a More Fun #52 CGC 5.5 and an All-American #16 CGC 4.5, both unrestored. You just don't see these books around.

 

Mark

Esquirecomcs@aol.com

[PUNYHUMAN]

Your right about that, & when you do it seems there restored!! But even then.there still not plentiful!!

[skybolt]

I just can't believe how few copies exist for certain GA books. For instance, about a year ago I purchased a Wonder Woman #3 CGC 6.5. It's still the 3rd highest graded copy in the census. Either Wonder Woman books are scarce or their owners refuse to slab them.

[Tango 'n Cash]

I think there will be a ton of original owner, Pedigree-level Silver Age collections come out in the next decade but I would be surprised to see even a few similar Golden Age collections come to light.

[Aman619]

I just can't believe how few copies exist for certain GA books. For instance, about a year ago I purchased a Wonder Woman #3 CGC 6.5. It's still the 3rd highest graded copy in the census. Either Wonder Woman books are scarce or their owners refuse to slab them.

 

it comes down to a question of Why Slab them? I have many raw books bought long ago and Im real curious what they'd grade at.... but I have no plans to send them to Florida as it costs big bucks, risks damage in shipping (and in the slab(!) theyre not for sale, and by the time I do want to sell, who is to say that the CGC slab will be as mandatory as it is today?

[ghoulaid]

I just can't believe how few copies exist for certain GA books. For instance, about a year ago I purchased a Wonder Woman #3 CGC 6.5. It's still the 3rd highest graded copy in the census. Either Wonder Woman books are scarce or their owners refuse to slab them.

 

I agree with aman619: Most Golden Age comics are in the hands of collectors who have had them for years and have no reason to slab them (because they are not for sale). I have no slabbed books but I have a couple hundred Golden Age comics. If you want to get a feel for how many GA comics exist (take your Wonder Woman #3 for example), look at the CGC census and then multiply the number of slabbed copies by 10. Only a small % of GA is slabbed at this time.

 

[ghoulaid]

I agree with you Punyhuman that there will never, ever be another find like the Church collection. I keep believing there are several more (less than 10) significant Golden Age collections yet discovered. I have to believe that because I haven't stumbled across the one meant for ME yet. I keep hoping.

 

There are probably around 100 high grade silver age accumulations yet to be discovered.

 

[DiceX]

I think there will still be a few Golden Age Pedigree collections to turn up, as it is not impossible for them to still exist.

 

I know where one is.

But he's rich and the books were his from his childhood, and they won't be sold.

[FlyingDonut]

I agree with you Punyhuman that there will never, ever be another find like the Church collection. I keep believing there are several more (less than 10) significant Golden Age collections yet discovered. I have to believe that because I haven't stumbled across the one meant for ME yet. I keep hoping.

 

There are probably around 100 high grade silver age accumulations yet to be discovered.

 

 

I don't know about that. The "Lost Valley" pedigree is just as good, or better, than Church for many pre-1940 books, and that was just found last year.

[shrunkenhead]

The question is:

 

How many will CGC consider pedigrees.

 

Explain to me why this is the question?

[shrunkenhead]

True, my understanding is that the Lost valley books were a major, major find. Gerber 9's and no-shows in high grade, totally obscure giveaways, wonderful stuff. It could happen again.

 

 

It was only early in this century that the Nag Hammadi library was found (vital ancient Gnostic scriptures found in a clay pot). Or we could take the Dead Sea Scrolls as another example of startling material that was lost for centuries. So what makes us think we're not going to stumble upon another great cache of 20th century newsprint?

[Captain Tripps]

My take on this is that there is probably a few really nice oo collections of high grade quality out there, most likely in non-urban, less-CGC cognizant areas, like the Midwest, where the collector may not even yet knoqw how valuable his holdings may just be. There will never be another Curator or Pacific Coast type collection (approximate 9.6 average grade) as these are just freaks of nature. I can see, however, a nice 9.0 - 9.4 (when they eventually get graded) average gradeof ASM's, DD's, X-Men, etc plus a few other titles as these were the most popular books back in the 60's. Just wait, one will turn up within this calendar year or so and the next question will be whether it is deserving of a pedigree label.

 

BTW, I'm settled in in my new home and office so I'll be back here regularly like old times. Thanks, forumites, I still love ya!

 

Doug

[Larryw7]

It was only early in this century that the Nag Hammadi library was found (vital ancient Gnostic scriptures found in a clay pot). Or we could take the Dead Sea Scrolls as another example of startling material that was lost for centuries. So what makes us think we're not going to stumble upon another great cache of 20th century newsprint?

 

The Nag Hammadi manuscripts and the Dead Sea Scrolls were hidden away because of religious persecution. Maybe someone will dig up clay jars with E.C.'s and other pre-code books stuffed in them from the Wertham/Kefauver years.

[tth2]

Hey Doug, welcome back! Take a look at the thread on ranking the SA/BA pedigrees, your input would be appreciated as always.

[ComicBookGuy]

I don't know if this has been discussed before,but in your opinion on these boards ,how many more do you think will surface in the coming years?? I think , myself there will be many more high grade Silver Age collections, one owner. "OO"

But in your opinion also , how about OO Golden Age Collections ,I think there is very few left,IMO!!! I doubt anything may ever come along & equal the Church,San Francisco,Larsen, in quanity & quality. I myself ,hope I'm wrong!!! What do you guys think?? Love to hear your Opinions!!

 

The real answer is that no one knows.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that there are many collections out there still undiscovered cause there are many people who are so completely into comics and even obsessive about them that they would never consider selling them. However, people and circumstances do change. If someone needs the money, the collection may have to go.

 

Which brings us to the next point. Will the seller go to a local comic shop, answer an ad in the paper, sell at a local show, put it on ebay, or sell to a big dealer? This question is vital. If, say, Metropolis or Showcase finds the collection, they will CGC it and apply for pedigree status. If someone not-cgc-savvy finds it, we may never know it existed except to see bits and pieces here and there at shows and on ebay and no one will know that it originated in a massive, comprehensive collection.

 

I am optimistic about such a find, and here's why. Let's say a kid is born in 1930. He will be 8 years old when Action 1 comes out and 9 when Detective 27 comes out. This is a prime comic buying age. That "kid" will now be 74 years old, which is not that old by today's standards. As these folks pass on over the next decades, their belongings will be sold off by heirs, and I do believe we will see more amazing collections as time goes by. Many people of that generation are not aware that comics are worth money. Their kids will be very aware of it and will most likely be ebay savvy baby boomers.

 

But, again, this is all speculation.

 

Joe

[skybolt]

I don't know if this has been discussed before,but in your opinion on these boards ,how many more do you think will surface in the coming years?? I think , myself there will be many more high grade Silver Age collections, one owner. "OO"

But in your opinion also , how about OO Golden Age Collections ,I think there is very few left,IMO!!! I doubt anything may ever come along & equal the Church,San Francisco,Larsen, in quanity & quality. I myself ,hope I'm wrong!!! What do you guys think?? Love to hear your Opinions!!

 

The real answer is that no one knows.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that there are many collections out there still undiscovered cause there are many people who are so completely into comics and even obsessive about them that they would never consider selling them. However, people and circumstances do change. If someone needs the money, the collection may have to go.

 

Which brings us to the next point. Will the seller go to a local comic shop, answer an ad in the paper, sell at a local show, put it on ebay, or sell to a big dealer? This question is vital. If, say, Metropolis or Showcase finds the collection, they will CGC it and apply for pedigree status. If someone not-cgc-savvy finds it, we may never know it existed except to see bits and pieces here and there at shows and on ebay and no one will know that it originated in a massive, comprehensive collection.

 

I am optimistic about such a find, and here's why. Let's say a kid is born in 1930. He will be 8 years old when Action 1 comes out and 9 when Detective 27 comes out. This is a prime comic buying age. That "kid" will now be 74 years old, which is not that old by today's standards. As these folks pass on over the next decades, their belongings will be sold off by heirs, and I do believe we will see more amazing collections as time goes by. Many people of that generation are not aware that comics are worth money. Their kids will be very aware of it and will most likely be ebay savvy baby boomers.

 

But, again, this is all speculation.

 

Joe

 

The problem is that most kids in those days discarted or treated their comics like garbage. However, if someone in his 20's started buying these books in the late 30' and 40's, he'd already be in his late 80's (which is pretty old). Perhaps, if their children were into comics as well and inherited these books, then we may have to wait another few decades to make sure that no other pedigrees will surface.