Minorities should stop stealing white superheros!

[Dr. Balls]

Go Michelle Rodriguez.

[Unca Ben]

...These are not our characters, most of us don't even like the superheroes we think we do. What we really like is a short period of story/art/rose colored glasses time frame of a particular character and not the 50+ year history of them. So when a movie or even a new version of a character in a comic is made well,... that's not my superhero, they are ruining it for everyone (when it is just you whining).

 

 

Very true!

 

I suppose it is.

 

I enjoyed my favorite character Spider-Man (big surprise) from the Ditko / Romita years up until the Kraven's Last Hunt storyline.

So about a 25 year period out of 50.

 

Even then there were some parts I didn't care for such as "six-armed Spidey" or the fiasco of the original clone saga.

 

'Course, I still bought the title for another 17 years out of loyalty and habit 'till I realized I hadn't enjoyed the title for some time

[Zevgoli]

It's amazing how political correctness and appeasement have swept aside common sense in our way of thinking.

 

Cheers, Howard

 

PS. I did say our.

[PIR8]

Discussions like this make me cringe so hard It's why I stay out of the Water Cooler.

 

First off, anything that Michelle Rodriguez says should be prefaced by the fact that her life is a train wreck, and she is usually drunk.

 

Secondly, I must have missed the announcement that all white superheroes are suddenly being played by 'minorities'. How many have had their race changed? Nicky Fury, Jonny Storm, whoever Idris Elba was in Thor. Is it really ruining superheroes for white people to have those few characters change skin colour?

 

If a character changes race in a comic or film (and its never a character just changing race in a comic, its just a different character wearing the costume for a while), the history and all of those back issues still exist, everything is still there, nothing is being destroyed.

 

It's about being inclusive, not pandering. I'm sure the young Jewish men who created Superman, Captain America, Spider-Man, the X-Men, the Avengers etc would have loved to have had at least some of those characters as Jewish. But no, they had to 'pander' to the market at the time, which was mainly white christian. That market has changed, so why does that legacy of the 1940s & 50s have to be set in stone?

 

 

My feelings exactly

[Zevgoli]

"First off, anything that Michelle Rodriguez says should be prefaced by the fact that her life is a train wreck, and she is usually drunk"

 

 

Anything you may have said to the good or bad after this comment got drowned out by this stupid statement. My life has occasionally been like a train wreck (who's hasn't)but that doesn't preclude me from thinking or having a valid opinion to be heard here or anyone else.

 

It makes what you say sanctimonious.

 

Cheers, Howard

[CAHokie]

Revol, that was kind of a judgmental statement. Do you have any first hand knowledge that she was drunk that night? She has always been known to say what thinks and it's a shame she had to "clarify" it later for the masses.

[Beastfeast]

It's amazing how political correctness and appeasement have swept aside common sense in our way of thinking.

 

Cheers, Howard

 

PS. I did say our.

 

What common sense are you talking about? What "common sense" has been swept aside in the name of inclusion?

 

 

[Zevgoli]

"I'm sure the young Jewish men who created Superman, Captain America, Spider-Man, the X-Men, the Avengers etc would have loved to have had at least some of those characters as Jewish. But no, they had to 'pander' to the market at the time, which was mainly white christian"

 

Forgive me but I never saw any of these characters go to church on Sunday. I think a great job was done to create and write characters that could be anyone being anything. Granted they were mainly white but that reflects the time they were created and who created them. Chinese create movies with chinese characters so do Indians so do Blacks etc with their respective people. I don't whine about the lack of white people in those roles.

 

We all come from different cultures colours and races. There is absolutely nothing wrong in writing something that reflects that difference. You can create black, white, pink or polkadot if you want according to WHO you are. There is no shame in that. I am tired of racism being played out whenever situations like this are discussed.

 

I don't like revisionism as an excuse for political correctness. I expect Nick Fury to be white because that is how his character was created. I expect Falcon to be black for the same reason.

 

I an not looking for The Colour Purple or Roots to be played by non black actors because that is not how it was conceived. You may argue that they are both about specific cultural situations and that is true but using the theories postulated here those roles can be played by anyone.

 

Characters like Thor are fair game because it is all about who is worthy to pick up the hammer. That can be anyone. Captain America flipping is fine as long as there is continuity in the move.

 

But to say that a character staying the same with an established ethos can be flipped overnight to someone entirely different is an insult to the character.

 

Let's not penalize ourselves for who we are no matter what the colour.

 

Cheers, Howard

[Zevgoli]

It's amazing how political correctness and appeasement have swept aside common sense in our way of thinking.

 

Cheers, Howard

 

PS. I did say our.

 

What common sense are you talking about? What "common sense" has been swept aside in the name of inclusion?

 

 

Think about it for awhile. That's all I'm going to say.

 

Cheers, Howard

[DeadpoolJr.]

"I'm sure the young Jewish men who created Superman, Captain America, Spider-Man, the X-Men, the Avengers etc would have loved to have had at least some of those characters as Jewish. But no, they had to 'pander' to the market at the time, which was mainly white christian"

 

Forgive me but I never saw any of these characters go to church on Sunday. I think a great job was done to create and write characters that could be anyone being anything. Granted they were mainly white but that reflects the time they were created and who created them. Chinese create movies with chinese characters so do Indians so do Blacks etc with their respective people. I don't whine about the lack of white people in those roles.

 

We all come from different cultures colours and races. There is absolutely nothing wrong in writing something that reflects that difference. You can create black, white, pink or polkadot if you want according to WHO you are. There is no shame in that. I am tired of racism being played out whenever situations like this are discussed.

 

I don't like revisionism as an excuse for political correctness. I expect Nick Fury to be white because that is how his character was created. I expect Falcon to be black for the same reason.

 

I an not looking for The Colour Purple or Roots to be played by non black actors because that is not how it was conceived. You may argue that they are both about specific cultural situations and that is true but using the theories postulated here those roles can be played by anyone.

 

Characters like Thor are fair game because it is all about who is worthy to pick up the hammer. That can be anyone.

 

But to say that a character with an established ethos can be flipped overnight to someone entirely different is an insult to the character.

 

Let's not penalize ourselves for who we are no matter what the colour.

 

Cheers, Howard

When I was doing a report about comics being used as propaganda one of the books I bought I believed had a chapter about these topics, I'll see if I can find them. There was also I think a thread about if Superman was Jewish posted awhile before.

[Revol]

Revol, that was kind of a judgmental statement. Do you have any first hand knowledge that she was drunk that night? She has always been known to say what thinks and it's a shame she had to "clarify" it later for the masses.

 

Fair enough, it was a judgemental statement. I've edited my post. I just tend to not give a lot of credence to statements given on the street by celebrities to paparazzi.

 

The rest of my post still stands

[Davenport]

What gets lost in all the silly angst is that traditional classic Superheroes can and did transcend race and gender bs. They touched and inspired lives, period.

 

An example:

“one of the saddest days of my life was when my mother told me ‘Superman’ did not exist…I was a comic book reader and I read comic books, I just loved 'em, because even in the depths of the ghetto you just thought, he's coming...I just don't know when...” - Geoffrey Canada, "Waiting for Superman"

 

 

 

[DeadpoolJr.]

Found them.

 

 

 

[Revol]

"I'm sure the young Jewish men who created Superman, Captain America, Spider-Man, the X-Men, the Avengers etc would have loved to have had at least some of those characters as Jewish. But no, they had to 'pander' to the market at the time, which was mainly white christian"

 

Forgive me but I never saw any of these characters go to church on Sunday. I think a great job was done to create and write characters that could be anyone being anything. Granted they were mainly white but that reflects the time they were created and who created them. Chinese create movies with chinese characters so do Indians so do Blacks etc with their respective people. I don't whine about the lack of white people in those roles.

 

When I wrote christian, I meant culturally, not that they were attending church on every second page of the comic

 

My point is Jewish superheroes wouldn't have been tolerated. But the creative teams working in comics were mainly young Jewish men who loved telling superhero stories. They couldn't write or draw characters that reflected themselves. The majority of superheroes that are still the most popular to this day were created in a time when diversity was not tolerated in society. Why does that legacy have to continue? Kids of all colours and religions should be able to see themselves reflected in the comics they read and the movies they watch.

 

But for some reason, that's always a step too far for some people. A black hispanic Spider-Man who inhabits a different universe to the old Spider-Man (who still very much exists) is called pandering. A new muslim Ms Marvel is decried as being PC, even though there's a vacany for the role of Ms Marvel. Thor can't be a woman, even though the character was once a frog etc.

 

 

[wombat]

Doesn't bother me at all. I don't care what color they want to make a superhero. Black superman. Chinese wolverine. White blade. If the movie is good I'll watch it.

[valiantman]

[kav]

So if Marvel/Disney cast the Black Panther as a white guy but can act the role tremendously well is that acceptable to the general audience?

 

Just playing Devil's advocate here......

 

One of the main points of Black Panther is that he is black. It's a big part of why the character was created. The point of Bishop is not that he is black. His blackness is irrelevant to the character.

 

Others have probably already said it - I didn't read the whole thread - but sometimes race is a significant attribute of a character and sometimes (more often) it is not.

A white chief of Wakanda would be a tough sell

[Zevgoli]

"My point is Jewish superheroes wouldn't have been tolerated. But the creative teams working in comics were mainly young Jewish men who loved telling superhero stories. They couldn't write or draw characters that reflected themselves"

 

But that's where you're wrong. Basic good and proper values are inherent in every culture. Good vrs evil. Right vrs wrong. These concepts are common to all of us. When Stan Lee wrote he wrote what he felt inside. His writing reflects his values as a Jewish person which are mine too as a non Jew. That is what binds us as the human race.

 

Cheers, Howard

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Suspending disbelief to enjoy a superhero flick? No problem

 

Using an actor of a different sex, ethnicity, height (horror upon horrors) to play the part of a superhero?

 

 

 

 

 

[vaillant]

Before you get all fired up, that's the title of an article currently running on MSN.

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/celebrity/michelle-rodriguez-minorities-should-stop-stealing-white-superheroes/ar-BBi5Is6

 

Thoughts?

 

"Michelle Rodriguez has sparked controversy by slamming Hollywood for casting minority actors in superhero roles that were originally conceived as white characters. It all started when a paparazzo asked the actress about a rumor that she’d been considered to play the Green Lantern. Rodriguez gave a very blunt response.

 

“That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard,” said the star of the "Green Lantern" rumor. (Historically, the Green Lantern has been a white man.) Rodriguez then declared, “I think it’s so stupid… because of this whole, like, ‘minorities in Hollywood’ thing… it’s so stupid, it’s, like, stop stealing all the white people’s superheroes. Make up your own, you know what I’m saying? What’s up with that?”

 

Indeed, some non-white performers have recently portrayed white superheroes. The black actor Michael B. Jordan will play the Human Torch in the upcoming "Fantastic Four," a casting decision that led to some debate when it was first announced. Nick Fury was a white character in the original Marvel comics, but is portrayed onscreen by Samuel L. Jackson. And while James Bond isn’t a superhero, per se, Rush Limbaugh recently created controversy when he declared that Idris Elba, who’s black, should not be considered as a future Bond because Ian Fleming conceived of Bond as a white man."

 

I don’t even bother to read the article, as the premises are already a mess and they mix a thousands different aspects having little to do with each other.