Chuck explains his Mile High pricing

[VintageComics]

Which used car dealer is important to the hobby of owning classic cars?

 

None of them. They're car dealers. They didn't manufacture the cars, they didn't preserve the cars, they didn't restore the cars. They bought low and sold high. None of it matters.

 

Used cars are not a hobby, but I bet if you knew enough about auto collecting you could make a case for certain individuals who made certain cars popular...like race car drivers who put certain models into the spotlight, even though they had nothing to do with their creation.

Used car dealerships sometimes sell collectible cars. And yeah, I know nothing of that hobby

 

No idea what I'm doing here

 

I didn't accuse you of not knowing anything about used cars.

 

The point was that your analogy about used cars didn't apply because we were talking about collectibles so I made it about collectible cars to make the analogy more applicable.

[oakman29]

This threads still going?

[VintageComics]

I know the law. You're not required to explain pricing, what the prior grade was, why it's in a PGX, if it was pressed, none of that is breaking the law. I understand that. I just still think it's scummy. And other people do too, when it happens here. I remember early on when I joined the forums someone made a sale thread selling a comic related item, they weren't comics, I think they might have been old promotional posters from the 70's, cereal prizes or something. Anyway, he was asking like $700 for the set of 7 or whatever. Seemed like an expensive buy but nobody had ever seen or heard of them before and they were old and cool.

 

Then someone discovered he had just recently bought them off eBay for like $20. Called him out in his thread, and it was instant pitchforks and torches. Pretty sure the guy was ran off the boards. He didn't break any rules, but it was a crappy thing to do, everyone agreed.

 

It's not OK for someone to go into a boardie's thread to thread-crepe someone's pricing in much the same way that it's not OK for someone to walk into a brick and mortar store and berate a seller for their asking prices in their store.

 

And what someone pays previously for an item is irrelevant to asking price. I bought a Batman #1 back cover off of ebay for $75 a few years ago. Is there a reasonable profit I should have sold it for rather than get 4 figures for it?

 

Someone's pricing might be 'scummy' but they are free to charge $5000 for a $50 book in the same way that a used car dealer can charge $5000 for a $50 car.

[dupont2005]

Which used car dealer is important to the hobby of owning classic cars?

 

None of them. They're car dealers. They didn't manufacture the cars, they didn't preserve the cars, they didn't restore the cars. They bought low and sold high. None of it matters.

 

Used cars are not a hobby, but I bet if you knew enough about auto collecting you could make a case for certain individuals who made certain cars popular...like race car drivers who put certain models into the spotlight, even though they had nothing to do with their creation.

Used car dealerships sometimes sell collectible cars. And yeah, I know nothing of that hobby

 

No idea what I'm doing here

 

I didn't accuse you of not knowing anything about used cars.

 

The point was that your analogy about used cars didn't apply because we were talking about collectibles so I made it about collectible cars to make the analogy more applicable.

There is a dealership out of Los Angeles that a lot of classic car guys idolize because it's where a lot of the classic cars you see at shows originated from. So today people put the dealership plate frames and antenna toppers and all that stuff on cars that didn't even come from that dealership. They'll even mural the dealership logo on their car. If you've ever wondered why lowrider guys all love Felix The Cat so much, it's because of Felix Chevrolet in LA. I personally never understood it, why it mattered, or why anyone would want dealership merch on their car. I imagine it's the same as caring about Chuck and his contribution to the hobby. Not important to me. Not as important as the contributions of people like Larry Watson and George Barris. Who I would find comparable to actual comic creators of the Golden Age in that analogy.

[VintageComics]

Which used car dealer is important to the hobby of owning classic cars?

 

None of them. They're car dealers. They didn't manufacture the cars, they didn't preserve the cars, they didn't restore the cars. They bought low and sold high. None of it matters.

 

Used cars are not a hobby, but I bet if you knew enough about auto collecting you could make a case for certain individuals who made certain cars popular...like race car drivers who put certain models into the spotlight, even though they had nothing to do with their creation.

Used car dealerships sometimes sell collectible cars. And yeah, I know nothing of that hobby

 

No idea what I'm doing here

 

I didn't accuse you of not knowing anything about used cars.

 

The point was that your analogy about used cars didn't apply because we were talking about collectibles so I made it about collectible cars to make the analogy more applicable.

There is a dealership out of Los Angeles that a lot of classic car guys idolize because it's where a lot of the classic cars you see at shows originated from. So today people put the dealership plate frames and antenna toppers and all that stuff on cars that didn't even come from that dealership. They'll even mural the dealership logo on their car. If you've ever wondered why lowrider guys all love Felix The Cat so much, it's because of Felix Chevrolet in LA. I personally never understood it, why it mattered, or why anyone would want dealership merch on their car. I imagine it's the same as caring about Chuck and his contribution to the hobby. Not important to me. Not as important as the contributions of people like Larry Watson and George Barris. Who I would find comparable to actual comic creators of the Golden Age in that analogy.

 

Look, I'm not a Chuck supporter. I'm also not anti-Chuck. I just recognize when someone makes an impact in the hobby.

 

Chuck found a killer collection, he made a unique business model (those 1980's ads in comics are legendary) and he's become somewhat of an icon. Old collectors and dealers also recognize that he's had an impact. That's enough for me.

 

As far as old cars go, I was always a European car guy. I was a Porsche fanatic for a long time.

[jaeldubyoo]

I really don't see why people feel so strongly about the way Chuck runs his business. As long as he isn't doing anything illegal, he's free to do what he wants with his comics, including pricing them ridiculously high. He is under no obligation to price his comics at what level you want him to price them. His business is his business. His business.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did I mention it's his business?

[dupont2005]

Not to mention, there's three or four collectors car dealerships in Palm Springs alone. Another in Cathedral City. Car dealerships with nothing but vintage M3's and air cooled 911's. 57 Bel Airs and split window Beetles.

 

None of those dealerships matter though. Not even to the collectors of those vehicles. Because they're just dealerships.

[wombat]

I really don't see why people feel so strongly about the way Chuck runs his business. As long as he isn't doing anything illegal, he's free to do what he wants with his comics, including pricing them ridiculously high. He is under no obligation to price his comics at what level you want him to price them. His business is his business. His business.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did I mention it's his business?

 

Right. He can run his business how he wants. And people have every right to discuss how others run their business.

[VintageComics]

Not to mention, there's three or four collectors car dealerships in Palm Springs alone. Another in Cathedral City. Car dealerships with nothing but vintage M3's and air cooled 911's. 57 Bel Airs and split window Beetles.

 

None of those dealerships matter though. Not even to the collectors of those vehicles. Because they're just dealerships.

 

You can't compare a used car dealership to a used comic dealership for the reason that used comics have always been a very specialized niche whereas cars are universal (comics are not, in case I need to add that - they have up until recently been considered fringe).

 

Now if you want to take fringe used cars, say like a Porsche, then yes certain dealerships absolutely did have an impact on the way Porsches were perceived.

 

I used to work at Heimrath Porsche in the early 1990's and he was legendary in Porsche circles - he was one of the 1st dealerships in Canada, he was a race car driver, he had a very polarizing personality (he was basically well known for being an arsehole) and he was at last partially responsible for promoting Porsche in Canada - and all of it was out of his sheer love for the marque. He was legendary in the Toronto area for all of the above.

 

 

 

 

[dupont2005]

I wouldn't compare Chuck to a race car driver. What's his trophy room look like?

[VintageComics]

I wouldn't compare Chuck to a race car driver. What's his trophy room look like?

 

 

Full of pottery!

[oakman29]

I wouldn't compare Chuck to a race car driver. What's his trophy room look like?

 

 

Full of pottery!

 

That's a good one Roy.

[Dano]

There's a reason it's called the Church collection and not the Chuck.

 

Dan

[RockMyAmadeus]

RMA's defense of Chuck was "Sure he rips people off, but they deserved it! I'm smarter than them, so it wouldn't happen to me."

 

First, I am not defending Chuck. I am defending a principle. Chuck's prices are, for the most part, beyond silly and indefensible. Do not confuse defense of a principle with defense of an extreme example of that principle.

 

Second, you have completely...and I mean completely, totally, and utterly...misrepresented what I said.

 

In fact, I specifically said otherwise:

 

So your argument is not that Chuck does not rip people off, but that people stupid enough to buy from him deserve it.

 

No, because that would mean I think that Chuck does rip people off, and there's nothing to suggest that he does. Chuck sets his price. No one is forced to buy from him. If you think his prices are a "ripoff", the answer is simple: don't buy from him.

(emphasis added)

 

If you're going to paraphrase my arguments, you need to do it correctly, and not misrepresent what it is I've said, especially when I have deliberately and specifically clarified it. Otherwise, please don't paraphrase me.

 

I didn't say Chuck was ripping people off. I said if you believe Chuck is ripping YOU off, being ripped off in and of itself isn't always as bad as it might appear.

 

A fine distinction, but a distinction nonetheless, and an important one.

 

I know, I've been a member of this board for a long time, so I shouldn't be shocked at this type of attitude, but I still am every time it's expressed.

 

That's because you think of yourself, and view the world around you, as a victim. Not insulting you, just telling the truth.

 

And then doubly shocked at how many people share that attitude on here. It's disappointing to say the least.

 

If you didn't look at yourself as a victim, you wouldn't see these attitudes as supporting victimization, and you won't be disappointed.

 

Let me be very, very clear: not only am I NOT arguing for victimization, I am strongly and adamantly arguing AGAINST it, by arguing that people need to first, not think of themselves as victims, and second, educate and arm themselves against perpetrators, so that they will NOT be taken advantage of when it really, really counts.

 

Will you see it....?

 

When you tell a child "don't touch the stove, it's hot" and they constantly test the boundaries, and you swat their hand, and they keep pushing, eventually you let them touch the stove to learn, first hand, that it's hot.

 

Is the child now a victim of your cruelty? Hardly. Have you abused that child? Or, have you allowed them, in the comfort and security of their own home, to learn a very, very valuable series of lessons, and are far better equipped to "not touch the stove" when the consequences are far, far more dire, and you're not around to save them.

 

Sometimes, people need to get burned to learn. That's life.

 

But now people can imply I'm a pansy liberal victim because I don't think people should applaud a man for surviving off ripping people off.

 

That is your opinion, and it is not an opinion shared by all. To arrive at that position, you have to start with the conclusion that Chuck is ripping people off, which he isn't doing.

 

It's awesome how everyone on the internet is a tough as nails Blackwater mercenary who would never be the victim of anything because of how smart and tough they are.

 

No one's said that. That's your melodramatic interpretation of the discussion, and bears little resemblance to what has actually been said.

 

No one said "I'm smarter than everyone because I don't get ripped off." That is strictly your invention. No one has said that, implied that, or even suggested that.

 

Life is so much better if you don't think of yourself as a victim, and it has nothing to do with how "smart" someone is.

 

 

[dupont2005]

I don't see how you continue to think I think of myself as a victim, when it didn't happen to me. But you're right. I do think anyone who has ever bought a high priced item off Chuck WAS a victim. I don't see why you need to keep repeating that same line either. To me it's exactly like acting tough on the internet, which is something I'll never do, because it's what cowards do. I guarantee though, I'm not a coward or a victim

[MetalPSI]

Just insecure

 

Why does it take me so long to find these gems?

 

Oh yeah, birthday threads!

 

Azkaban is doing a good job, but I miss Oakman

[VintageComics]

There's a reason it's called the Church collection and not the Chuck.

 

Dan

 

Having spent a little time as a full time dealer I hear crazy stories all the time. Stories of dealers who get offered MONSTER collections and turn them away because they either

 

a) don't have the money to buy them

b) don't want to put in the work

c) don't know what they are getting

 

 

Even if someone stumbles across something special, many people don't know how to capitalize on it fully. That does not necessarily mean just getting the highest price but also following it through to the end and investing it into something meaningful.

 

Chuck had the skill set at a very, very young age to

 

a) put in the effort to go see the books when other dealers couldn't be bothered

b) negotiate a deal

c) follow through with the deal to the end

d) turn the deal into a lifetime business

 

That alone is quite an accomplishment. I can see many people blowing this sort of opportunity and apparently, according to the history books some did.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Well, no, you want to be a victim

How so?

Because you want to argue that anyone who does what Chuck does is a perpetrator and guilty of all kinds of malfeasance. It has nothing to do with whether you, personally, have been "ripped off" by Chuck...you call him a scumbag, publicly, because you think he "rips people off", despite the fact that no one is required to buy anything from him, ever, and you have no actual evidence that he has behaved in an unethical manner.

 

Instead of letting Chuck do what Chuck does, and you doing what you do, you call the man names in public because you don't like the prices he charges for his merchandise.

 

That is the essence of someone who looks at life as a victim.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Um, actually, no, there isn't an example of that almost happening, there is an example of someone possibly having maybe gone to MH and could have bought something that her husband, you, me, and the butcher's son would consider overpriced. That's a long way off from your "paying $1600 for a $5 book." Which, by the way, is 31,900% overvalued.

 

And, once again, didn't actually happen.

 

There's certainly plenty to criticize about his pricing without making up ridiculous stuff.

Assuming he's sold something in his shop in forty years of business is not making up ridiculous stuff. Assuming he hasn't is.

 

Under what other scenario could any of those books have possibly sold?

 

Are you even reading what you are writing here? You said the only possible way Chuck has sold a book listed on his site at $1600 was if some unsuspecting fool bought a book that was really only worth $5. "... but if we assume he's EVER sold ANYTHING with a pricetag that high in his shop, it happened. That's the only way it could possibly happen" is the direct quote.

 

And I say THAT is a ridiculous stuff you are making up. I say that never happened, because I don't think there's ever been a $5 book listed on his site for $1600, or anything similar. If he has sold a book from his site listed at $1600, the most likely scenario is that someone bought it with a 50-60% off codeword, which means they paid $650-800, and that book might have been in the Guide for $200-300. Yeah, they paid too much, but not any ridiculous "$1600 for a $5 book", and once again, nobody forced them to buy it.

First of all, not everyone who visits his site knows about the codewords. Second of all, I was talking about his store in Colorado. Walk in purchases. But yeah, the website too. Anyway, what I'm saying is I assume he's made some four figure sales in the past forty years. It's possible he makes hundreds a year, but lets just assume it's a couple.

 

100% of those customers were completely ripped off. All of them. Every last one. I guarantee it.

 

You are treading a very, very delicate line, here. You are tapping on, if not outright crossing, the line of libel. That is a claim you cannot make, and have not a shred of proof for, and yet, you feel no compunction about boldly making it, publicly, for all to see.

 

You had best hope Chuck doesn't see this, and isn't in a litigious mood.

 

 

Just who do you think you are, to determine for everyone else that they were "ripped off"...?

 

 

[COI]

I don't see how you continue to think I think of myself as a victim, when it didn't happen to me. But you're right. I do think anyone who has ever bought a high priced item off Chuck WAS a victim. I don't see why you need to keep repeating that same line either. To me it's exactly like acting tough on the internet, which is something I'll never do, because it's what cowards do. I guarantee though, I'm not a coward or a victim

 

 

If you (and I don't mean you specifically) buy something for $1000 that's worth $5, and upon finding out, your assessment of the situation is "I was robbed", then you have a victim's mindset; things happen to you, not because of you; personal accountability is supplanted by blaming others.

 

So he's not calling you a victim of Chuck specifically, or a coward, or trying to be an "internet tough-guy" or any of that other junk; he's pointing out that placing all the blame on Chuck in a hypothetical scenario where someone overpays for a book is viewing the interaction through the victim's lens, the way someone who sees themselves as a victim would. It's a mindset. Whether or not you have that mindset generally, only you know, but that's what you're demonstrating here in regards to Chuck's pricing.