Chuck explains his Mile High pricing

[Mmehdy]

 

 

still the issue raised is that all comic shops are just a catalog from Diamond...and his store is different....well...

[Xela]

Was Chuck ever a member here?

[shadroch]

 

still the issue raised is that all comic shops are just a catalog from Diamond...and his store is different....well...

 

I'll go further and say that 99% of comic shops are unpaid indentured servants of Diamond.

[Unca Ben]

 

There was a time, not so long ago, when you would have been considered insane if you paid cover price for a back issue..

 

It was a back issue.

 

Cover price was the cost of new entertainment, not old.

 

After all....NEW movies cost 25 cents...old movies could be seen for a dime or even a nickel.

 

That "every back issue is automatically worth MORE money" is a peculiarity to the comics market, and even then, only within the last 25 years or so. That some stores add 50 cents OR MORE to back issues that didn't sell when new is as bizarre to the publishing industry as it gets.

 

No one adds $10 to an unsold copy of Stephen King's "The Stand", unless it's a first edition, first printing hardcover.

 

No one adds $1 to an unsold copy of Newsweek.

 

No one adds 50 cents to an unsold copy of the New York Times..

 

Only in comics.

 

Yep.

 

And talk about being stolen, if the stories on comicbookpedigrees.com are accurate, then it sounds like some of the Crippen D books may have made their way onto the market by less than scrupulous means.

 

Over ten years after the Mile High discovery, the 18,000 book Bethlehem collection was bought for about $1.70 a book.

 

It seems that owners and their heirs started getting more for their books with the advent of the internet and things like CGC, and once auction houses got involved or dealers had to bid against one another.

 

It also seems like some early collection discoveries were jealously guarded, with sales only to other dealers or folks "in the know".

 

It would be interesting to know how much was paid for other collections, like the Cosmic Areoplane for example. Just to see if Chuck was way out of line with the standards of the time.

 

Singling out Chuck for what was probably standard procedure seems like spinning information to support an ongoing resentment against the man.

[Chip Cataldo]

The turn of this thread is the first time I have ever heard of anyone criticizing the acquisition of the Church collection or calling it an unethical deal.

 

I realize it is stupid to point out but the man did actually do physical work to haul off and sort through over 1800 comics.His time and labor however insignificant were never taken into account as far as I could tell.

 

On the rare occassion that I do buy from MHC I feel as if I am being hustrucked

An anagram of "hustrucked" is "huckstured."

 

[That Ron Dude]

 

There was a time, not so long ago, when you would have been considered insane if you paid cover price for a back issue..

 

It was a back issue.

 

Cover price was the cost of new entertainment, not old.

 

After all....NEW movies cost 25 cents...old movies could be seen for a dime or even a nickel.

 

That "every back issue is automatically worth MORE money" is a peculiarity to the comics market, and even then, only within the last 25 years or so. That some stores add 50 cents OR MORE to back issues that didn't sell when new is as bizarre to the publishing industry as it gets.

 

No one adds $10 to an unsold copy of Stephen King's "The Stand", unless it's a first edition, first printing hardcover.

 

No one adds $1 to an unsold copy of Newsweek.

 

No one adds 50 cents to an unsold copy of the New York Times..

 

Only in comics.

 

Yep.

 

And talk about being stolen, if the stories on comicbookpedigrees.com are accurate, then it sounds like some of the Crippen D books may have made their way onto the market by less than scrupulous means.

 

Over ten years after the Mile High discovery, the 18,000 book Bethlehem collection was bought for about $1.70 a book.

 

It seems that owners and their heirs started getting more for their books with the advent of the internet and things like CGC, and once auction houses got involved or dealers had to bid against one another.

 

It also seems like some early collection discoveries were jealously guarded, with sales only to other dealers or folks "in the know".

 

It would be interesting to know how much was paid for other collections, like the Cosmic Areoplane for example. Just to see if Chuck was way out of line with the standards of the time.

 

Singling out Chuck for what was probably standard procedure seems like spinning information to support an ongoing resentment against the man.

 

Thanks for the information about the Bethlehem collection. I had no knowledge of that. I am sure that some people have negative views of Chuck Rozanski's dealings because of jealousy. Some probably see it as a negative extension of the Chuck Rozanski they know now who sells books at a high price and has a bombastic newsletter.

 

Certainly, he is not the only person who was in the hobby in the 1970s who would have acted that way given the chance. Some of those people are resented as well. Gerry Ross has threatened (but as far as I know not followed through with) a lawsuit over what has been said about him on this thread. Bob Chrestohl came on to this thread not so much to deny what was being said, but to discuss it.

 

As a boy of about 13 I listened to George Henderson who owned Memory Lane in Toronto tell a person his own age (and I paraphrase), "A man came in here yesterday with a box of golden age. I offered him two dollars a book but he thought I was offering two dollars for the box. I didn't set him straight". That was about 1968. George ran a marginal business in a scuzzy section of town that dealt primarily in nickel and dime comics. It seemed to be a case of "never give a suck an even break or wise up a mark".

 

Chuck Rozanski was far from being the only one. But he made the best score of them all so he is put under greater scrutiny.

[Prince Namor]

If you put your weinie on the chopping block, somebody's gonna take a swing at it.

[VintageComics]

But he made the best score of them all so he is put under greater scrutiny.

 

This sums up the entire thread.

 

 

[shadroch]

With great power comes great jealousy.

[Chip Cataldo]

If you put your weinie on the chopping block, somebody's gonna take a swing at it.

Good. I need some action.

[Unca Ben]

If you put your weinie on the chopping block, somebody's gonna take a swing at it.

 

When I read this post I thought of this.

Is that wrong? Or am I just under-compensating?

 

I just hope I'm not over-compensating

 

 

 

[thunsicker]

I may be wrong, but I don't think most of the collector hate is due to the smoking deal Chuck got. Almost everyone was paying pennies on the dollar before the internet. Sure, if someone had a collection like the Church collection and asked for more they got it, but no one offered 50% or even 20% of guide as a starting position.

 

I think most of the animosity is due to the fact that he immediately starting charging double to triple guide for those smoking hot issues. Were they worth it? In hindsight, yes. They were undoubtedly the nicest issues of many comics that were out there. But, at the time, most comic store business models were to buy low and sell at guide.

 

Now, when most comic stores buy at 70% of guide or higher and sell at a premium, people look at the deal and say he ripped off the Church family. Then it was that he was ripping off collectors.

[VintageComics]

I think most of the animosity is due to the fact that he immediately starting charging double to triple guide for those smoking hot issues. Were they worth it? In hindsight, yes. They were undoubtedly the nicest issues of many comics that were out there. But, at the time, most comic store business models were to buy low and sell at guide.

 

Now, when most comic stores buy at 70% of guide or higher and sell at a premium, people look at the deal and say he ripped off the Church family. Then it was that he was ripping off collectors.

 

I wasn't around as a big collector during the Church find. All I know is wisps that I have heard through the grapevine, what I have read, etc.

 

When did the practice of nice books selling for over Guide begin?

 

I listened to Vincent Zurzolo's podcast interview with Jay Maybruck, who was selling by the late 1970's and he was charging over Guide for nice books as well.

 

Was it a 'dealer ripping off collectors' or was demand so great that the market was actually supporting the practice?

 

Nobody could force buyers to pay those prices. They paid them freely.

 

 

[shadroch]

Yep, I hate Chuck for holding that gun to those collectors heads, forcing them to pay triple what the guide called for.

[Unca Ben]

I may be wrong, but I don't think most of the collector hate is due to the smoking deal Chuck got. Almost everyone was paying pennies on the dollar before the internet. Sure, if someone had a collection like the Church collection and asked for more they got it, but no one offered 50% or even 20% of guide as a starting position.

 

I think most of the animosity is due to the fact that he immediately starting charging double to triple guide for those smoking hot issues. Were they worth it? In hindsight, yes. They were undoubtedly the nicest issues of many comics that were out there. But, at the time, most comic store business models were to buy low and sell at guide.

 

Now, when most comic stores buy at 70% of guide or higher and sell at a premium, people look at the deal and say he ripped off the Church family. Then it was that he was ripping off collectors.

 

I hear what you're saying.

 

Yet here is an interesting perspective in an excerpt from Comic Book Pedigrees (sure wish they'd finish that book)...

 

" ...This took years to happen after the collection was discovered in 1977. The hobby went through the classic stages of emotional change--denial, anger/fear, reluctant acceptance, finally moving on to the future. For those who had not seen the books, denial was easy. It’s difficult to believe in something better then that which previously existed, especially without witnessing it. This emotion carried over for many years, going well into the ‘80s before collectors realized how amazing the books really were. The fact that very few Mile High copies ever made it to the open market that decade only compounded collectors’ denial.

 

The anger arose when Chuck Rozanski, purchaser of the collection, began asking multiples of guide for each book, a concept that was unheard of at the time. This was fueled by collectors’ denial that Mile Highs were indeed worth the extra money. Ironically Chuck sidestepped the fear factor by asking these multiples; had he priced the Mile Highs at straight guide, the flood of books would have instantly devalued the Golden Age market, considering most other books were clearly inferior by comparison.

 

Acceptance in the market was somewhat manipulated the first years, as those in the know preferred to keep the Mile High collection a secret for their own benefit. Even though it took nearly 10 years for Chuck to sell the entire collection, it was about that time when the average collector began to understand their potential. Today, given the accelerated speed of information via the internet and the laser focus on grading (and of course hindsight), such an event would certainly assimilate at a much quicker rate. "

[Gatsby77]

Over ten years after the Mile High discovery, the 18,000 book Bethlehem collection was bought for about $1.70 a book.

 

It seems that owners and their heirs started getting more for their books with the advent of the internet and things like CGC, and once auction houses got involved or dealers had to bid against one another.

 

This. There's far more price transparency now with online selling.

 

I'd wager that of all the major Pedigree collections, it's only the most recent (say, Billy Wright for GA & Twin Cities for SA) where the owners were truly fairly compensated, due to %s given via the open auctions at Heritage.

 

Had the Twin Cities collection been discovered in the early '90s, those 6,000 books would likely have been carted off for something like $1-$2 apiece. My understanding is the Dahlberg heirs ultimately netted over $1 million from Heritage from the sale.

[1Cool]

I think most people are jealous of the Mile High find but I'd think people have let it go a long time ago. In my opinion it's Chuck's in your face sales tactics (newsletters and inflated prices with a 70% discount) are what push people way from him. There are guys who find big collections every year and they make a killing but they go about their business quietly and people don't seem to hold the grudge with them compared to Chuck.

[VintageComics]

Over ten years after the Mile High discovery, the 18,000 book Bethlehem collection was bought for about $1.70 a book.

 

It seems that owners and their heirs started getting more for their books with the advent of the internet and things like CGC, and once auction houses got involved or dealers had to bid against one another.

 

This. There's far more price transparency now with online selling.

 

I'd wager that of all the major Pedigree collections, it's only the most recent (say, Billy Wright for GA & Twin Cities for SA) where the owners were truly fairly compensated, due to %s given via the open auctions at Heritage.

 

Had the Twin Cities collection been discovered in the early '90s, those 6,000 books would likely have been carted off for something like $1-$2 apiece. My understanding is the Dahlberg heirs ultimately netted over $1 million from Heritage from the sale.

 

I don't think either of those two collections were purchased though. They were auctioned off and the proceeds went to the owners. That's just owners doing their due diligence rather than looking for a quick sale.

[chrisco37]

I don't think either of those two collections were purchased though. They were auctioned off and the proceeds went to the owners. That's just owners doing their due diligence rather than looking for a quick sale.

 

True.

 

Surprising as it may seem to some (most) of us, there are people out there (the Churches are a great older example) that just want "the stuff gone" in one fell swoop.

 

There are a lot of people that don't want the "hassle" of selling things individually or even multiple lots.

 

Sometimes people are willing to take less to be done with it, even knowing they will most likely get more another way.

[VintageComics]

Surprising as it may seem to some (most) of us, there are people out there (the Churches are a great older example) that just want "the stuff gone" in one fell swoop.

 

There are a lot of people that don't want the "hassle" of selling things individually or even multiple lots.

 

I had a customer of mine trade me his AF #15 7.0 for a 6.5 with almost no additional compensation. He knew exactly what he was doing and was happy to do it. He just wanted to get rid of his book because it held bad memories for him.

 

I've heard of board members finding killer comics in someone's garbage. Are they obligated to recompense the person who threw them out?

 

Life isn't black and white but people looking into the past through money colored goggles might assume it is at times.