Complete All-Star runs in private hands...are there lots of them?

[sfilosa]

To me, putting together a low / mid grade run of readily available books IS NOT A QUEST. The only thing HOLDING someone back is AVAILABLE FUNDS at the time.

 

On the other hand, putting together a HG run of many titles would take a long time, EVEN with the FUNDS AVAILABLE to buy the books at or near market value. Yes, if I was a billionaire and would pay whatever it cost, most likely the books could be obtained. But if my QUEST was to put together a nice run, but not just throwing away money, MANY titles are a challenge.

 

I love Silver-Age Marvels, but to be honest in less then a month I could probably own every issue from all the SuperHero titles in low to mid-grade. I would go to a major dealer, tell them what I want, and trade them lots of HG CGC'd SA books (which they would much rather have pound for pound then low grade, easily replacable books). THAT IS NOT A QUEST.

[CentaurMan]

I'm loving this thread, because I'm living this thread. I'll tell you what a quest is. A quest is collecting every Centaur and pre-Centaur comic, in any condition. Fun as hell, not terribly expensive, and almost (but not quite) impossible. I salute all of you other condition-ambivalent completionists who are making this conversation so much fun.

[Thegoldenage]

There are probably a lot more All Star collections out there than are known by today's collecting community. If you mean complete as in all 57 issues, my guess would be somewhere around 50 complete collections. Runs of 50 of the 57 issues probably number in the 100+ range. Runs of 40 of the 57 issues probably number in the 250+ range.

 

Don Thompson wasn't exaggerating at all. It's just that over the years people have been brainwashed by Overstreet into thinking that Golden Age comics are rare. The print runs of the Golden Age were huge. Routinely topping a million or more issues per month. Even if only 1% survived the paper drives and anti-comic book hysteria, that still leaves 10,000 copies. 1/2 of 1% would still be 5,000 copies of a title in any given month. All Star Comics, with it's plethora of superheroes was widely distributed and sold. There is nothing at all rare about the run, and I can't think of a single issue that cannot be had any day of the week. Grade is another matter entirely. I think the number of high grade issues is few, but still out there.

 

In terms of availability, you should have no trouble at all completing your run.

[sfilosa]

There is nothing at all rare about the run, and I can't think of a single issue that cannot be had any day of the week. Grade is another matter entirely. I think the number of high grade issues is few, but still out there.

 

In terms of availability, you should have no trouble at all completing your run.

 

Which is WHY he wants them in HG.

[skybolt]

To me, putting together a low / mid grade run of readily available books IS NOT A QUEST. The only thing HOLDING someone back is AVAILABLE FUNDS at the time.

 

On the other hand, putting together a HG run of many titles would take a long time, EVEN with the FUNDS AVAILABLE to buy the books at or near market value. Yes, if I was a billionaire and would pay whatever it cost, most likely the books could be obtained. But if my QUEST was to put together a nice run, but not just throwing away money, MANY titles are a challenge.

 

I love Silver-Age Marvels, but to be honest in less then a month I could probably own every issue from all the SuperHero titles in low to mid-grade. I would go to a major dealer, tell them what I want, and trade them lots of HG CGC'd SA books (which they would much rather have pound for pound then low grade, easily replacable books). THAT IS NOT A QUEST.

 

I know what you mean. It took me forever to find a copy of Blue Beetle #54 in FN- condition (paid 2.5 x guide). However, it does give you a satisfying feeling when you can put a check mark next to a book you've been looking for over a year.

 

Now, as far as thousands of copies existing for most GA books, I'm not sure about that. I mean Action Comics #1 was probably considered a collectable 40 years ago, but there are still less than 100 copies in existance. I can't imagine another 2,000 copies just waiting to be discovered.

[Thegoldenage]

Now, as far as thousands of copies existing for most GA books, I'm not sure about that. I mean Action Comics #1 was probably considered a collectable 40 years ago, but there are still less than 100 copies in existance. I can't imagine another 2,000 copies just waiting to be discovered.

 

How do you know there are less than 100 copies in existance?

[Thegoldenage]

Which is WHY he wants them in HG.

 

Where did you see that in his original post? Maybe I missed something?

[jbcomicbox]

 

I love Silver-Age Marvels, but to be honest in less then a month I could probably own every issue from all the SuperHero titles in low to mid-grade. I would go to a major dealer, tell them what I want, and trade them lots of HG CGC'd SA books (which they would much rather have pound for pound then low grade, easily replacable books). THAT IS NOT A QUEST.

 

Its called the thrill of "The Hunt"......

[Larryw7]

I'm loving this thread, because I'm living this thread. I'll tell you what a quest is. A quest is collecting every Centaur and pre-Centaur comic, in any condition. Fun as hell, not terribly expensive, and almost (but not quite) impossible. I salute all of you other condition-ambivalent completionists who are making this conversation so much fun.

 

[Thegoldenage]

I am trying to complete a run of all the pre-hero DC comics. I am 10 books away after nearly 20 years.

[CentaurMan]

I am trying to complete a run of all the pre-hero DC comics. I am 10 books away after nearly 20 years.

 

WOW! Great goal! Which 10 books are you missing, if I may ask? I've got a number of them but am not a completionist in that category, so there's a slim-but-non-zero chance that I could help you.

[rjpb]

There are probably a lot more All Star collections out there than are known by today's collecting community. If you mean complete as in all 57 issues, my guess would be somewhere around 50 complete collections. Runs of 50 of the 57 issues probably number in the 100+ range. Runs of 40 of the 57 issues probably number in the 250+ range.

 

Don Thompson wasn't exaggerating at all. It's just that over the years people have been brainwashed by Overstreet into thinking that Golden Age comics are rare. The print runs of the Golden Age were huge. Routinely topping a million or more issues per month. Even if only 1% survived the paper drives and anti-comic book hysteria, that still leaves 10,000 copies. 1/2 of 1% would still be 5,000 copies of a title in any given month. All Star Comics, with it's plethora of superheroes was widely distributed and sold. There is nothing at all rare about the run, and I can't think of a single issue that cannot be had any day of the week. Grade is another matter entirely. I think the number of high grade issues is few, but still out there.

 

In terms of availability, you should have no trouble at all completing your run.

 

 

While a few titles like Superman and Captain Marvel and perhaps the Disney books may have topped a million copies per issue- the idea that GA comics routinely sold a million copies an issue has been debunked. This site has a wealth of information concerning circulation figures- and while most publishers tended to list monthly circulation figures by group,and not all titles were monthly, one can see that even DC's books, arguably from one of the more successful publishers of the day, averaged mid six figure circulation even when including their most popular titles. Indeed Action #1 is estimated to have had a circulation of 130,000 as compared to 900,000 for the three printings of Superman #1 (this would indicate the likelyhood of six Superman #1s still existing for every Action #1 - something not yet reflected in the CGC census). There is a good chance that even these numbers are inflated, as periodical publishers have long had reputation for exaggerating circulation figures.

 

As to what percentage of an average GA title survives today, I'm guessing that 1 in 200 is optimistic. These books were considered fairly disposable at the time of their publishing, and even if they were "collected", it was rarely with an eye towards preservation- they were re-read, passed around, entrusted to parents who tossed out or incinerated them, and otherwise left to the ravages of time. I would agree that All-Star probably had fairly high circulation figures (as evidenced by it's longevity), and it's status among early fandom, at a time when the later issues were only a decade old, would indicate that the scarcity of the last few issues is relative.

[adamstrange]

speaking of paintings 500 years old. I wonder just how valuable they were considered merely 130 years after their creation? Im curious, just who owned the Old Masters works in the 1600s? And how were they [erceived at that point? Were they already considered priceless? Or was it just in the last 100 or even 50 years that they reached mythic status?

 

Most early painting was done for the church. it was the renaissance and the introduction of perspective and the wealthy nobles that fueled that initial art market for individuals. there were king and queens through history going after major paintings or collections. a DaVanci or Titian or Rapheal drove people nuts just like it does now. (to me anyway!)

 

Yeah. AT that time painting was commissioned by Popes and other church officials, usually religious subject matter. Then the merchant class developed with money and they commissioned portraits and religious paintings for themselves.

 

BUT - - what I would like to know from research is was there an after market for these works? Were they TRULY sought after by other noblemen? Or did they just prefer to commission their OWN artworks personally, rather than covet some other noblemans pieces. And were the great Renaissance artists' works considered special in 1600, just a few generations after their creation? Or were thay not yet "rediscovered, or exalted above all other artists' work. Not really knowing, I could imagine it either way...

 

It was the merchant but also often the nobles. There are recorded example of collectors accumulating paintings whose collections were then highly sought after when they were sold. i know of things in the 1600s, more in the 1700s. also, roman statuary was uncovered in the Renaissance and that absolutely was sought after. i read more general history, not art history, so i can't cite references. i may try and google to see what i come up with.

[Thegoldenage]

While a few titles like Superman and Captain Marvel and perhaps the Disney books may have topped a million copies per issue- the idea that GA comics routinely sold a million copies an issue has been debunked. This site has a wealth of information concerning circulation figures- and while most publishers tended to list monthly circulation figures by group,and not all titles were monthly, one can see that even DC's books, arguably from one of the more successful publishers of the day, averaged mid six figure circulation even when including their most popular titles. Indeed Action #1 is estimated to have had a circulation of 130,000 as compared to 900,000 for the three printings of Superman #1 (this would indicate the likelyhood of six Superman #1s still existing for every Action #1 - something not yet reflected in the CGC census). There is a good chance that even these numbers are inflated, as periodical publishers have long had reputation for exaggerating circulation figures.

 

As to what percentage of an average GA title survives today, I'm guessing that 1 in 200 is optimistic. These books were considered fairly disposable at the time of their publishing, and even if they were "collected", it was rarely with an eye towards preservation- they were re-read, passed around, entrusted to parents who tossed out or incinerated them, and otherwise left to the ravages of time. I would agree that All-Star probably had fairly high circulation figures (as evidenced by it's longevity), and it's status among early fandom, at a time when the later issues were only a decade old, would indicate that the scarcity of the last few issues is relative.

 

I haven't seen that old rec.arts.comics.marketplace posting in years. Thanks for the link. I also know Ray Bottorff (CAarchivist) pretty well from dealings with him when he was selling off parts of Jerry Bails' collection back in the late 90's.

 

I probably could have been clearer. There were Golden Age SUPERHERO titles that routinely sold over 1 million copies per month, not all Golden Age titles. These titles included All Star Comics. Briefly reviewing the information you provided bears this out to a degree. The numbers listed do indeed reflect the entire sales of the publisher for a given month, however certain titles drew a lion's share of the sales figures. I will review the infomation you provided. Thanks.

[RareHighGrade]

I am trying to complete a run of all the pre-hero DC comics. I am 10 books away after nearly 20 years.

 

What issues are you missing? Some of the members of this forum may be able to help you locate them.

[tilleycs]

To me, putting together a low / mid grade run of readily available books IS NOT A QUEST.

 

Exactly. TO YOU. But your particular quest/approach is not the only one out there.

 

I love Silver-Age Marvels, but to be honest in less then a month I could probably own every issue from all the SuperHero titles in low to mid-grade.

 

Um, congratulations?

 

I would go to a major dealer, tell them what I want, and trade them lots of HG CGC'd SA books (which they would much rather have pound for pound then low grade, easily replacable books). THAT IS NOT A QUEST.

 

That's what you would do. Suppose someone is starting from scratch and getting started is their quest? Or are people not allowed to come at this from different places and at different angles?

 

I'm thinking about bowing out of this one, you seem to want to set high-grade collectors up as the aristocrats of comic collecting, and I just don't buy that.

[Forbush-Man]

To me, putting together a low / mid grade run of readily available books IS NOT A QUEST.

 

Exactly. TO YOU. But your particular quest/approach is not the only one out there.

 

I love Silver-Age Marvels, but to be honest in less then a month I could probably own every issue from all the SuperHero titles in low to mid-grade.

 

Um, congratulations?

 

I would go to a major dealer, tell them what I want, and trade them lots of HG CGC'd SA books (which they would much rather have pound for pound then low grade, easily replacable books). THAT IS NOT A QUEST.

 

That's what you would do. Suppose someone is starting from scratch and getting started is their quest? Or are people not allowed to come at this from different places and at different angles?

 

I'm thinking about bowing out of this one, you seem to want to set high-grade collectors up as the aristocrats of comic collecting, and I just don't buy that.

 

Personally speaking, I would consider a full run of any Golden Age title a "Quest" in any condition,......but that's just me.

[skybolt]

Personally speaking, I would consider a full run of any Golden Age title a "Quest" in any condition,......but that's just me.

 

No kidding. I'm having a hard time completing a "Junior" run in low grade, and there are only 8 issues.

[tilleycs]

Personally speaking, I would consider a full run of any Golden Age title a "Quest" in any condition,......but that's just me.

 

Me too! A quest is what you make it. It doesn't have to measure up to someone else's standards or definition of what would be a quest to them. There's plenty of room in this hobby for everyone, every taste, and every approach.

[the blob]

"What makes you think there will be a market for a run of All-Star Books 65 years from now? Your potential buyers are not even born yet and why would they even desire these books?"

 

The same could have been said when they were printing the darn things 60-65 years ago.

 

Or when people were getting the idea to collect them 45-50 years ago.

 

Just check out prices on some of the early science fiction from the 1800s. As literature, they were total [#@$%!!!]. They're not relevant to today. Doesn't mean collectors don't have an interest (and heck, some of those GA covers are pretty cool).

 

So long as people have extra money to toss around, there will be a market for collectibles.

 

Whether people won't have an interest in this medium is not a foregone conclusion.