Complete All-Star runs in private hands...are there lots of them?

[shrunkenhead]

One of my many delusions is to someday own a complete run of All-Star Comics. And no, don't get too excited, I'm not even close. At the rate I'm going, I could probably have a complete run by the time I'm 93. I'm 28 now. Just in time to croak so that my good-for-nothing descendents can reap the financial reward!

 

But here's my question. I was recently flipping through the All-Star DC Archives Volume 1, and in the introduction there's the following tidbit from Don Thompson:

 

"In the early days of comics fandom, around 1960, the crown jewel of any comics collection was ALL STAR COMICS. In Chicago comics-collecting circles, it was considered basic and essential---if you did not have a complete collection of ALL STAR COMICS, you were not considered a real collector. An astonishing number of complete collections were amassed in Chicago and still exist as complete files."

 

How accurate is this info? Anybody have any idea? I'm very curious as to what "an astonishing number of complete collections" really means. And I'm even more curious as to how many of these collections would consist of mostly high grade books (let's say F/VF or better). I just can't help but think that Mr. Thompson is exaggerating the supply of these books a tad, but perhaps I'm wrong. I've been watching the All-Star market for several years now, though, and the books do not come up in high grade all that often. Heritage usually has two or three nice ones in a signature auction, but that's hardly a deluge. If these complete files really exist, then they're being hoarded big-time.

 

Just wondering if I should continue this delusional fantasy of mine. I'd hate to be 93, finish my run, and find out that 1,001 other complete sets in striking condition also exist. Although at least that would leave my worthless spawn with a less valuable collection!

 

I look forward to hearing the thoughts of those of you who have been banging around in the world of GA longer than I have.

[Silver]

If their was more than a couple of dozen, I would be surprised. Alot of those collectors from the 60's sold issues in the 70's and 80's when they could fetch 20 bucks a piece for em

[sfilosa]

While I have no idea how many complete runs there are, the one thing I have noticed from collecting comics is that MOST books are NOT in High Grade.

 

My guess would be that 30-50% of all existing GA books in VF or better condition come from KNOWN PEDIGREE COLLECTIONS.

 

While that might seem like a high percent (since you see plenty of high grade non-pedigree CGC'd books), there are still a FEW of the best GA collections that have not been certified. And my guess is that most of these books are from the most prominent pedigrees (Edgar Church, Larson, Allentown, San Francisco, etc.).

 

Simply put, it would be very hard for a GA comic book to stay in VF or better shape if it was being handled back and forth for 40-50 years. The reason pedigree collection ARE in HG is simply that weren't ever moved back and forth (bought and sold). Remember, most collectors / dealers did almost NOTHING to protect the books from futher damage as late as 30 years ago (mid-70's). Therefore, those books that were being bought and sold prior to that were being handled quite frequently.

[jim1968]

In my own estimation I would have to say that there are a fair amount of "runs" of All Star still out there for the finding. By "runs" I mean 44 or more different issues, just over 75% of the total run. I bet the condition varies! Almost every copy from between #35 and #57 seem to turn up brittle. While several were sold off in the mid 70's I would think there are still at least half a dozen collections like this in private hands. Plus whatever other books they had, Worlds Finest, More Fun, etc.

But i dont think the condition of the remaining lots will be anything to brag about! Just the sheer fact of whats there will be a cool thing though!

[shrunkenhead]

In my own estimation I would have to say that there are a fair amount of "runs" of All Star still out there for the finding. By "runs" I mean 44 or more different issues, just over 75% of the total run. I bet the condition varies! Almost every copy from between #35 and #57 seem to turn up brittle. While several were sold off in the mid 70's I would think there are still at least half a dozen collections like this in private hands. Plus whatever other books they had, Worlds Finest, More Fun, etc.

But i dont think the condition of the remaining lots will be anything to brag about! Just the sheer fact of whats there will be a cool thing though!

 

I agree that those later issues are especially tough. Particularly the last 6 or 7 issues, almost every copy of those I've ever seen personally have been real dogs.

 

Hmmm...you guys are giving me hope after all! For a second there I was afraid that nice runs of All Star were secretly as abundant as Harvey File copies, and I was just ignorant to the fact. Very nice to know that the quest is still entirely worthwhile!

[sfilosa]

Hmmm...you guys are giving me hope after all! For a second there I was afraid that nice runs of All Star were secretly as abundant as Harvey File copies, and I was just ignorant to the fact. Very nice to know that the quest is still entirely worthwhile!

 

The one thing to always remember is that most comic books had 100,000 or more copies printed. That's a LOT of Copies.

 

YET, why is it that there might be only 5-20 showing up for sale in HG?

 

Is it because all the other copies are hiding somewhere in HG, yet to be unleashed on the public?

 

No, it's because most of those NO LONGER EXIST, and MOST THAT DO, have been beaten up over the past 50-60 years. Realize, how easy it is to DAMAGE a book, and that should allievate your fears that there are an abundance (i.e. hundreds) of HG books of a particular issues just sitting in collectors hands.

[Fan4Fan]

Hmmm...you guys are giving me hope after all! For a second there I was afraid that nice runs of All Star were secretly as abundant as Harvey File copies, and I was just ignorant to the fact. Very nice to know that the quest is still entirely worthwhile!

 

I'd be glad to hear that the task is likely difficult if not monetarily monumentous...

[DarrenSmith]

What makes you think there will be a market for a run of All-Star Books 65 years from now? Your potential buyers are not even born yet and why would they even desire these books?

[sfilosa]

What makes you think there will be a market for a run of All-Star Books 65 years from now? Your potential buyers are not even born yet and why would they even desire these books?

 

I don't think he wanted to collect these for INVESTMENT purposes. I believe he was implying that nothing would be worse than searching and spending a great amount of time and money over the next 20 years, only to find that there are 1,000 complete runs. That would then be a waste of time and money.

 

And assuming he DID put together a HIGH GRADE RUN, what makes you think there wouldn't be AT LEAST one very WEALTHY PERSON who would pay anything to have the run already completed.

 

Why do people buy POTTERY that is thousands of years old. Or PAINTING 500 years old, or FURNITURE that is 200 years old? Because they want to and to the best of my knowledge, none of these people LIVED when the ITEM was MADE.

[shrunkenhead]

 

I'd be glad to hear that the task is likely difficult if not monetarily monumentous...

 

If it wasn't difficult I'd probably cease to be interested. As for the money, yes, it would take an awful lot of money, far more than I have available to spend at this point in my life, which is why I wouldn't plan to finish the run until I'm old and grey. Then I can sell 'em to somebody instead of depending on social security which won't be there when I'm that old.

Right back at ya.

 

[shrunkenhead]

What makes you think there will be a market for a run of All-Star Books 65 years from now? Your potential buyers are not even born yet and why would they even desire these books?

 

I don't think he wanted to collect these for INVESTMENT purposes. I believe he was implying that nothing would be worse than searching and spending a great amount of time and money over the next 20 years, only to find that there are 1,000 complete runs. That would then be a waste of time and money.

 

 

Got it in one, SF. I was talking more about the thrill of the hunt than "investment." God knows there are far easier books out there to flip than high-grade issues of All Star. As far as potential buyers go, if we're talking about a project that would take several decades to 1) find the books and 2) be able to afford them, I think looking for potential buyers down the line would be at the bottom of my priority list.

 

I just see it as a long-term "dream goal" that, if ever achieved, would likely stand as my largest personal achievement in the hobby. I didn't realize that would irk anybody.

[Fan4Fan]

 

I'd be glad to hear that the task is likely difficult if not monetarily monumentous...

 

If it wasn't difficult I'd probably cease to be interested. As for the money, yes, it would take an awful lot of money, far more than I have available to spend at this point in my life, which is why I wouldn't plan to finish the run until I'm old and grey. Then I can sell 'em to somebody instead of depending on social security which won't be there when I'm that old.

Right back at ya.

 

 

Oh, I hear ya... my original collecting goals keep morphing and growing from year to year. Still, I try to keep them to something I actually might be able to accomplish before I am too blind and/or demented to be able to read the books.

 

More power to you to accomplish this... you are a better collector than I.

 

[nearmint]

Then I can sell 'em to somebody instead of depending on social security which won't be there when I'm that old.

 

Sorry, this is one of my pet peeves. The more people who say this, the easier it will be for a future President or Congress to say "You know what, you were right all along!" Considering the amount of money I've put into SS in the last 20+ years, it damn well better be there when I get old. Sorry to rant, but that attitude makes me crazy!

[tilleycs]

I don't think he wanted to collect these for INVESTMENT purposes. I believe he was implying that nothing would be worse than searching and spending a great amount of time and money over the next 20 years, only to find that there are 1,000 complete runs. That would then be a waste of time and money.

 

If that's his goal and what he wants to do with his time and money, why would it be a waste??? I say don't worry about how many other full runs are out there or what everyone else may or may not be collecting. Buy what you like and collect what you like, and enjoy it.

 

I know it's not GA, but I'm currently close to amassing a full run of the Luke Cage titles (Hero for Hire, Power Man, PM & IF). I have no way of knowing how many other people out there even care about the title(s), much less how many people have full runs (and I'm not even collecting high-grade copies) - and I could care less. I like the title, I read it in the 80's, and now I'm close to being able to sit down & read the whole thing from start to finish.

 

I realize that these GA books are harder to come by, but my point is...buy what you like and enjoy it. That should keep you so happy that you don't worry about what anyone else has. A million other people could have the same thing(s) you have, but they shouldn't diminish what it means to YOU. I say enjoy it, and more power to you! I hope you're able to finish your quest.

[tilleycs]

Sorry, this is one of my pet peeves. The more people who say this, the easier it will be for a future President or Congress to say "You know what, you were right all along!" Considering the amount of money I've put into SS in the last 20+ years, it damn well better be there when I get old. Sorry to rant, but that attitude makes me crazy!

 

I don't think it's a bad attitude, I think it's realistic. I'm 33, and I'm not planning my financial present or future with the assumption that Social Security is going to still exist when I retire. With the shape it's in and the forecast for its future, we really can't count on it being around when we retire.

 

We've all dumped a ton of money into it over the years, so I understand your frustration, but I also understand the poster's point. I hope they change it so that we can start investing part of our money into something else, but even then, I'm still putting money into my 401k plan and into Roth IRAs with the understanding that SS may not exist when it's time for me to retire.

[rjpb]

Sorry, this is one of my pet peeves. The more people who say this, the easier it will be for a future President or Congress to say "You know what, you were right all along!" Considering the amount of money I've put into SS in the last 20+ years, it damn well better be there when I get old. Sorry to rant, but that attitude makes me crazy!

 

I don't think it's a bad attitude, I think it's realistic. I'm 33, and I'm not planning my financial present or future with the assumption that Social Security is going to still exist when I retire. With the shape it's in and the forecast for its future, we really can't count on it being around when we retire.

 

We've all dumped a ton of money into it over the years, so I understand your frustration, but I also understand the poster's point. I hope they change it so that we can start investing part of our money into something else, but even then, I'm still putting money into my 401k plan and into Roth IRAs with the understanding that SS may not exist when it's time for me to retire.

 

I know we are getting OT here but Social Security has built up such a surplus in the last 20 years that under the worst case scenario, if we do nothing, the SS trust fund could be running in the red in about 40 years. It has run defecits as recently as the 1970s without cutting benefits. I commend you for not relying on SS alone in your eventual retirement - it was never designed to be the only source of retirement income - it is a pay-as-you-go retirement income insurance program designed to create a minimal safety net for retired persons. The SS trust fund surplus is invested in U.S. treasury bills - so if the economic situation were to get so bad that the government defaulted on this commitment, chances are your 401K and IRA will be next to worthless as well.

[sfilosa]

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I don't think he wanted to collect these for INVESTMENT purposes. I believe he was implying that nothing would be worse than searching and spending a great amount of time and money over the next 20 years, only to find that there are 1,000 complete runs. That would then be a waste of time and money.

 

 

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If that's his goal and what he wants to do with his time and money, why would it be a waste??? I say don't worry about how many other full runs are out there or what everyone else may or may not be collecting. Buy what you like and collect what you like, and enjoy it.

 

He agreed with my post. Basically, I would hate to spend years putting a collection together of WHAT APPEARS TO BE, HARD TO FIND BOOKS, only to see a slew of collections flood the market.

 

It's the SAME REASON people pay MAD MONEY to buy the highest graded copy. Yes, they have some idea that sometime in the future, a higher graded copy might come along, yet IF THEY KNEW there was a WAREHOUSE (or A COLLECTION) with a ton of HIGHIER GRADED COPIES, then they wouldn't pay as much (and maybe not even want it).

[skybolt]

Sorry, this is one of my pet peeves. The more people who say this, the easier it will be for a future President or Congress to say "You know what, you were right all along!" Considering the amount of money I've put into SS in the last 20+ years, it damn well better be there when I get old. Sorry to rant, but that attitude makes me crazy!

 

I don't think it's a bad attitude, I think it's realistic. I'm 33, and I'm not planning my financial present or future with the assumption that Social Security is going to still exist when I retire. With the shape it's in and the forecast for its future, we really can't count on it being around when we retire.

 

We've all dumped a ton of money into it over the years, so I understand your frustration, but I also understand the poster's point. I hope they change it so that we can start investing part of our money into something else, but even then, I'm still putting money into my 401k plan and into Roth IRAs with the understanding that SS may not exist when it's time for me to retire.

 

I know we are getting OT here but Social Security has built up such a surplus in the last 20 years that under the worst case scenario, if we do nothing, the SS trust fund could be running in the red in about 40 years. It has run defecits as recently as the 1970s without cutting benefits. I commend you for not relying on SS alone in your eventual retirement - it was never designed to be the only source of retirement income - it is a pay-as-you-go retirement income insurance program designed to create a minimal safety net for retired persons. The SS trust fund surplus is invested in U.S. treasury bills - so if the economic situation were to get so bad that the government defaulted on this commitment, chances are your 401K and IRA will be next to worthless as well.

 

A lot of us here are professionals, and can probably invest our money wisely for the future . My concern is for people like my dad who have worked in factories all their lives, and don't have the business know how because of lack of education. After all their hard work for 40+ years, the government would just tell them "sorry, you should have been more business savvy and invested your money in stocks and 401K plans.

[shrunkenhead]

It's the SAME REASON people pay MAD MONEY to buy the highest graded copy. Yes, they have some idea that sometime in the future, a higher graded copy might come along, yet IF THEY KNEW there was a WAREHOUSE (or A COLLECTION) with a ton of HIGHIER GRADED COPIES, then they wouldn't pay as much (and maybe not even want it).

 

Bingo bango, we are on the same page here. Personally speaking, part of the desirability of a book is its scarcity. That's just how my head works; I realize that it is not everybody's collecting shtick, and I respect that, but when I'm paying a high price for a nice book, I like knowing that the book is either scarce in general, or tough in high grade, or some combination of both factors. For me, that is a great part of the enjoyment that I get out of this hobby. So for that reason I'm "buying what I like" because what I like are scarce/tough-in-grade books! Much of comic collecting's satisfaction for me is in dreaming up/putting together sets that you don't see everyday (like my developing HG pre-code horror set, for example). My wallet may not be huge, but I like to dream big, and I'm very patient about a project once I've set my mind to it. What can I say, it's just in my nature. Maybe the OCD in me is crying for love!

 

Finding out decades down the line that there are boatloads of All-Star Runs out there in high grade would be deflating for me if I'd put so much time, effort, and dough into putting together a run (I'm not rich, so it will be a herculean effort if I manage to someday pull this off). But it wouldn't be deflating because I'm trying to keep up with the jones' or something. It would simply be deflating because I took so much time and effort to complete a quest that proved unecessary. Kinda like climbing a mountain that few others have reached the top, that kinda thing. Wouldn't it be a drag if you got to the top of the mountain only to find they'd built a mega-sized shopping mall up there?

[shrunkenhead]

And just in case nobody's noticed, I'm avoiding this ongoing social security digression (that's what I get for making a joke with you nutters ) This thread is about my comic-book fantasy, so get the heck out of my thread with yer real world problems!