Do you haggle on price?

[Meeley Man]

I just had a curious thought and wonder if others would give their thoughts on it.

 

The question is: Do you haggle on the price of original art? We all know how expensive this hobby is, but from my own experience as an art rep, I've seen very few folks ever haggling with me over pricing, which I'd have expected to be a routine thing.

 

So, how many of you do so? How vigorously do you do so? What's the line for when you haggle and don't? Do you just think a dealer/artist/reps price is the law? Do you only pay what they ask all the time? Does the piece have to have a certain price value before you haggle? Do you haggle on low end art, just high end, or all of it? I'm interested to hear what others have to say on this.

[suspense39]

I haggle, unless it's time payments, which I rarely use. I'm working on buying a couple things from a European dealer that I've haggled with in the past with success, but this time I'm not asking for a discount due to the exchange rate.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

I think haggling with a rep or dealer is much different than haggling with the artist.

[westform]

I usually don't haggle on the low end, unless I think the price is way high percentage wise. If you are not getting any hagglers at the mid to high end, then I would say your prices are too low...

[Aronstg]

Same as HotJuicy. I will always haggle with a dealer but I usually will not haggle directly with the artist. At most I might ask for a little extra tidbit.

[vodou]

I haggle incessantly* and often get exactly what I want out of a deal. Do so even more aggressively if it's several pieces at once. Big ticket, small ticket, doesn't matter. When I'm not getting what I want from a deal, even if it's only customer service...I walk. There's so much art out there, forever and always a buyer's market.

 

*but fairly, not lowball - that's usually a waste of everybody's time!

[desertdogg2006]

I haggle for sure if it something I really want. but I try to be fair with my offers as I always do my homework on pieces I really want. with market values. I have over paid a lil for something,s but only if its a page that have everything iam looking for.in a page.

 

but yes there is a lot of art out there. so if the dealer or artist wont deal I have no problem giving my cash to someone else.

[koollectablz]

I haggle. With reps, artists and dealers.

 

I assume everything is priced as such to give a bit anyway.

[Eltanin]

I never haggle with artists or their reps. I ask the price, and then it's just yes or no for me. But I wouldn't feel comfortable haggling with an artist.

 

I rarely buy from dealers, and the few times I did, the price was low enough that I knew someone else would pick the piece if I didn't, so I quickly grabbed the pieces and didn't try to haggle.

But I wouldn't mind ask for a discount from a dealer if I was after a high end piece or buying a bunch of pieces at once.

 

When I deal with collectors, I have no problem haggling and making counter-offers (not low ball), but I don't automatically do it. The last time someone proposed me a piece, I thought the price was fair, so I accepted it without counter-offer.

[Eric Seffinga]

I would never attempt to buy a piece from someone's CAF marked "not for sale", and then proceed to try and haggle. And I get offers like that so often, but it still shocks me.

 

As with everything regarding one of a kind original art, my approach to price and haggling has some generalities but every situation is unique and I act by what feels appropriate. I've haggled with dealers, I've haggled with individuals. I've haggled with artists even, when it feels right. But it depends on the relationship I have with each. I feel like all my best pieces come about via relationships with the art community rather than just tossing money about. Money always speaks, but sometimes connections can reach farther and into places that the money just isn't the be all end all. As such, I try to be respectful and keep an eye towards how I come across in each and every sale or purchase. There are consequences and reputations at stake for everyone.

 

When haggling, I often don't come in with a low offer straight off the bat. I ask the seller if they are at all flexible or if there is wiggle room. It gives both parties an out. Reading between the lines, I am letting them know the price is higher than I'd like to pull out the wallet for, and giving them the opportunity to continue a negotiation or snip it off at the outset. No one usually gets offended, and it keeps things superficial at first. Then I take things from there. Sometimes based on current market values, and sometimes just based on my own valuation. What's their piece worth to ME. Sometimes a balance of the two.

 

And to go the other way, every once in a while I have paid someone more than they were asking. Either because I thought they were under where they should be, or because it is worth more to ME. It seems a silly thing on the surface, to surprise someone with extra money they weren't asking for. To just give it away. But it just is my way of showing appreciation. I don't do it for any reason than it makes me happy to do so. Sending someone I like out to dinner with their family, or giving them a little bonus. But the knock on effect is that it has on occasion led to me being contacted or getting a heads up about other pieces first.

 

Like I said... relationships. I consider many people I've met via the Comicart-L, and CAF some of my best friends.

 

As for dealers, art galleries and directly with artists. It depends.

 

For the run-of-the-mill resellers of comic art, I assume at least some minor wheeling and dealing will be part of the process. Depends on how much I'm spending, with whom, and how many deals we've done in the past. After buying and even selling to someone over the years, I can get a feel for what their thresholds are and not risk embarrassment or offense. More often if something is just way too high, I don't bother. I've seen a lot of people that just suck at knowing how to choose their battles. It's like their eyes are too big and their checkbook too small to ever meet. And yet they try and talk people down to half. Really? Has that ever worked? Mostly I see artists and dealers that talk to each other, warning each other about "that guy". A major wasting of everyone's time.

 

For art galleries, artist reps, and directly from artists... I always assume a fresh to market work is a fixed price, and yes, offering less is at best, mildly insulting. Now I could see if buying in bulk, say a whole book or a large number of new pieces, that it wouldn't hurt to ask the old standby of "Would you be willing to give any kind of discount if...". When asked politely and with humility, it's an innocuous question. And one they are often willing to work with. BUT if a work is old, and by old, I mean been on a webstore or in a portfolio for sale for years, and it hasn't sold over and over again. But it's something I've been interested in and personally looked at on a number of occasions, I'm usually not too afraid to ask them if they'd be flexible on it's price as well. Generally I try to have an idea of where I need to be to take the piece home, but I usually let the seller offer up a discount first, and then go from there. I don't ever want anyone I deal with to feel like I've taken advantage of them or talked them into something. I'd much rather as much as possible that everyone is happy, because you never know who's going to have what down the line.

 

and speaking of... there are some dealers, artists and so on that I don't deal with. Some folks are just sharks and some are just touched in the head. I try not to waste my time.

 

-e.

 

[koollectablz]

So yea, you haggle.

[comix4fun]

There's so much art out there, forever and always a buyer's market.

 

 

 

 

Almost always true....unless you've honed your wants down to something very specific or very in demand.

[Eric Seffinga]

That is VERY true.

[comix4fun]

Do you just think a dealer/artist/reps price is the law?

 

 

 

I wanted to pull this question out because it interested me the most. No price is "the law". If this were a set commodity or mass produced, equally identical, factory item the market would figure out its value easily and in a tangible way.

 

Art is too unique and sales are too small a sample size for anyone to be a slave to whatever market indicators we may have encountered, at least not to the point where there's some equally agreed upon price.

 

Intelligent dealers and reps find their groove of selling things so they don't sit forever (overpriced) nor sell instantly (that painful feeling of giving it away), but are priced at a point where at least one person will buy without much trouble or hassle. The problem is, the range of experience, awareness, empathy and fairness is vast amongst a hobby with denizens not known for their advanced social graces.

 

Some reps price at what their artist clients want per page, it's arbitrary and may be out of touch with the overall market.

 

Some dealers price with an eye towards a minimum % return on their investment, again this may be divorced from the reality of what the market will bear.

 

Some dealers want to buy their own private island with a hydro-electric dam powered by the tears of their past customers.

 

 

[Doc McCoy]

Do you just think a dealer/artist/reps price is the law?

Some dealers want to buy their own private island with a hydro-electric dam powered by the tears of their past customers.

 

Too true! . . . . . . Unfortunately, these are the dealers that usually have the art I want to buy.

 

 

[vodou]

And yet they try and talk people down to half. Really? Has that ever worked?

Not really applicable to comic art, but in a fine art corner I play in..."yes, this has worked." It's a beaten down market where some players have long memories of what they paid when the sector was hot hot hot. And won't budge an inch. (And never make a sale either..it's comical and sad at the same time.) Others are more willing to entertain reality. (Not to digress too much, but there's a potential lesson here for those that think comic art will never be out of favor, never take a significant hit - especially at the top end. Trust me, the older players/dealers in this market never saw it coming either and twenty years into the bear...still can't accept it, can't accept reality. Well it can and may well happen...just don't spend money you cannot afford to never see again, and you'll be fine!)

 

Getting back to "yes, this has worked" - Two weeks ago I put in a $1000 best offer against a $3500 BIN (on eBay). And got it. This for one of the top three (possibly two?) artists from the entire sector. Pretty big deal getting a good piece by this long deceased artist to begin with!

 

The $3500 BIN was a nice lowish end price for about eight to ten years ago. This artist had a range then of 3500-15,000. My $1000 is pretty deep into the low end in 2015 (artist's market range is now 2000-10,000). Fair market is probably $2500. The key to this deal happening though was I was the only liquidity at a time when the seller needed exactly that. Again, the whole sector lacks liquidity - meaning bargains abound and the babies are being thrown out with the bathwater. Daily. (I love me a beaten down and forgotten market sector!) It's a picker's market and this one felt good, even with really bad eBay pictures, but only at a deep discount. As it turns out, with some significant research I've been able to prove that my new painting was the cover for the artist's sole monograph in 1978 (a book that's hella hard to find, only one copy anywhere on the Net for $200, no images of the cover anywhere at all), in a sector where there are very few monographs to begin with, mostly grouping type art books. So add a zero to the end of what I paid and that's now the real FMV. But I love it, it's not for sale

[vodou]

There's so much art out there, forever and always a buyer's market.

Almost always true....unless you've honed your wants down to something very specific or very in demand.

And that's the definition of masochism

[comix4fun]

There's so much art out there, forever and always a buyer's market.

Almost always true....unless you've honed your wants down to something very specific or very in demand.

And that's the definition of masochism

 

 

True, but it's the natural progression of this hobby.

 

 

I've seen it follow this pattern somewhat consistently....

 

Phase One: " I really like this artwork collecting, must buy everything I see."

 

Phase Two: " I really like Batman, must buy all Batman I see."

 

Phase Three: " I really like Batman in the Bronze Age...must have everything"

 

Phase Four: " I really like Neal Adams Batman, that's my focus."

 

Phase Five: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano is really my focus. "

 

Phase Six: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano, from 1972-1974 is really really my focus."

 

Phase Seven: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano, from 1972-1974, and from the "Batman" title, is really really really my focus. "

 

 

 

More than any other hobby I have encountered tastes evolve as people discover, through appreciation and experience, what they really really love.

 

It takes time but, by the end, they've painted themselves into a pretty good corner.

 

[theflashunc]

With dealers and other collectors? Sure. I don't see much harm in that. Everyone's wearing their Big Boy Pants.

 

With artists directly? Never. I may see what they can do if I'm buying several pages at once, but that's about it. Feels icky otherwise and I'd wager is probably more than a little insulting to the artist.

[vodou]

I've seen it follow this pattern somewhat consistently....

 

Phase One: " I really like this artwork collecting, must buy everything I see."

 

Phase Two: " I really like Batman, must buy all Batman I see."

 

Phase Three: " I really like Batman in the Bronze Age...must have everything"

 

Phase Four: " I really like Neal Adams Batman, that's my focus."

 

Phase Five: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano is really my focus. "

 

Phase Six: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano, from 1972-1974 is really really my focus."

 

Phase Seven: " Neal Adams Batman inked by himself or Giordano, from 1972-1974, and from the "Batman" title, is really really really my focus. "

I'm very happy these types exist in abundance and (seemingly) endlessly growing numbers. I love selling to them. But, by definition, I can't buy like them.