Darkseid's First Full Appearance....?

[12c_Comic]

I do not have the issue of "Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen" 134,but I think it is the first cameo of Darkseid.Now can someone tell me what is his first full appearance of the lord of Apokolips......

[Zonker]

Darkseid appears in the final panel of JO 134, on Morgan Edge's "picture-phone." But there is a coloring error, so he looks more or less Caucasian!

 

He appears for a full page in the next issue, JO 135, correctly colored as the classic Kirby Darkseid look. Overstreet calls both JO 134 and 135 "cameos."

Then right after JO 135, he's a major player in Forever People #1 and makes a memorable appearance on the final page of New Gods #1.

 

Zonker loves this [#@$%!!!]!

[ArnoldTBlumberg]

Those notations might have changed as a result of threads on boards like this. One thing I was determined to fix in the Guide is the completely incorrect usage of the word "cameo." By definition, a first appearance - even a brief one - *cannot* be a cameo, as a cameo can only apply to a character we already know. Therefore that first appearance would be called a "brief first app." - but if it's still slightly inaccurate in the next Guide, that's only because I haven't fixed it yet.

 

Arnold

[awe4one]

Those notations might have changed as a result of threads on boards like this. One thing I was determined to fix in the Guide is the completely incorrect usage of the word "cameo." By definition, a first appearance - even a brief one - *cannot* be a cameo, as a cameo can only apply to a character we already know. Therefore that first appearance would be called a "brief first app." - but if it's still slightly inaccurate in the next Guide, that's only because I haven't fixed it yet.

 

So the "cameo" notation will be removed from Hulk #180 and the 1st App note will remain?

 

If so, what will this say for future values of both Hulk 180 and 181?

 

Jim

[Zonker]

Yeah, that is going to be a shock to the system if suddenly these once-cameos become noted as first appearances in Overstreet.

 

Arnold, I understand the dislike for the word cameo in this context. Is there no other word that works better? "Teaser?" "Walk-on?" "Preview?"

[nitowljr-migration]

Anyone that decides to charge/pay more for a book because it's description in OS was changed from "cameo" to "1-panel appearance" needs to have his/her/its head examined then needs to be shot. That's almost as bad as charging/paying more for a book because its encased in plastic and "professionally" grad....err...nevermind.

[divad]

Anyone that decides to charge/pay more for a book because it's description in OS was changed from "cameo" to "1-panel appearance" needs to have his/her/its head examined then needs to be shot. That's almost as bad as charging/paying more for a book because its encased in plastic and "professionally" grad....err...nevermind.

 

[awe4one]

Anyone that decides to charge/pay more for a book because it's description in OS was changed from "cameo" to "1-panel appearance" needs to have his/her/its head examined then needs to be shot. That's almost as bad as charging/paying more for a book because its encased in plastic and "professionally" grad....err...nevermind.

 

Nutty hobby we're in...

 

This change will validate those that have been calling for Hulk #180's recognition as Wolvie's first appearance the last couple of years...

 

Jim

[divad]

Nutty hobby we're in...

 

Yup

 

[BradleyX2]

This change will validate those that have been calling for Hulk #180's recognition as Wolvie's first appearance the last couple of years...

 

Jim

 

 

I don't know. If, as Arnold says, the change goes from:

180: 1st cameo appearance

181: 1st full appearance

 

to

 

180: 1st brief appearance

181: 1st full apearance

 

...I don't think any monetary change will happen.

[awe4one]

I don't know. If, as Arnold says, the change goes from:

180: 1st cameo appearance

181: 1st full appearance

 

to

 

180: 1st brief appearance

181: 1st full apearance

 

...I don't think any monetary change will happen.

 

I don't know....we'll have to see...

 

Personally I think "cameo" has a negative connotation in our "1st appearance" geared back issue market. Once it's gone people will refocus on the words "1st" and "appearance". Add that to the people who have been calling for Hulk #180 to be regarded as the 1st appearance, regardless of their intentions, you have the brew for a fundemental shift in collectibility...

 

Jim

[12c_Comic]

thanks for the info.....

[ArnoldTBlumberg]

I see no reason why this would in any way affect the monetary aspect of thing, nor should it, as it does not change the relative importance of the appearances noted, just the semantics. An old note that referred to a brief first appearance as a "cameo" would now be "1st brief app." while a first appearance might now say "1st full app." in order to clarify the relative distinction between the two. The fact that I changed the word usage to more accurately reflect the intended meaning and use the language properly has not changed the comics themselves nor the stories within them.

 

Arnold

[Aman619]

speaking for Overstreet Guide, you are being far too humble. After 30 years of being notated "Officially" as Wolverine's First Appearance, you dont think having another book now getting a similar "First Appearance" designation cant affect pricing? I think it may not dent 181, but will certainly increase 180/ And in time, may cause it to overtake 181 if you say "brief 1st app". 1st appearance is 1st appearance!

 

when it comes to the money, we all have seen how values change drastically seemingly overnight. The post about slabbed comics was a great one, and very funny - -- -because its right on the mark!!

[Zonker]

Yes, I think it is impossible to overestimate the hype potential for trying to sell an "undiscovered key." Dealers and flippers want to be first in line to bid up the next emerging hot thing and send it along before it cools down.

 

Similar to the current movie hype: Do we really think suddenly a lot of civilians will be buying Batman 232 once they see Ras al Ghul in Batman Begins? I doubt it, instead it is the speculation that the book can be flipped numerous times among those already buying comics, i.e. the smart money. There is a hidden assumption among the later buyers along that chain that in fact the movie will eventually spark new demand among a wider circle of collectors. I personally doubt that hidden assumption is true- but the early buyers/flippers are counting on somebody on down the line believing it to be true.

 

Likewise with Hulk 180. Everyone in the know understands what is in the book, and a different term used by Overstreet won't affect it's desirability among those in the know. But just think how much energy has been expended on these boards over the last couple of years trying to decide if there will ever be "another Hulk 181." Now imagine the hype engine revving up: "Overstreet has re-defined the first Wolverine appearance. Buy it now while you still have the chance, before the stupid money gets here to really bid it up!"

[ArnoldTBlumberg]

I still just don't get this. We're not redefining *any* first appearance! Anyone can see that Wolverine turns up at the end of #180 and then has his first full appearance in #181. That never changes! #180 has ALWAYS been his first brief appearance and #181 has ALWAYS been his first full appearance and therefore far more useful as a historical marker than his fleeting app. at the end of #180. There is no change in the relative importance. None.

 

But I'm sure people will make of this what they will and muddy the waters for their own gain. That's the way of things, isn't it?

 

Arnold