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Owning CGC grade comic vs original art...

Started by Kermit the frog,

86 posts in this topic

BlackHeartedDwarf-migratio

BlackHeartedDwarf-migratio

Posted
Posted
Really? OK, then shroom has the market cornered for the day that anyone learns to give a rats arse. Maybe one day he will make a fortune. But, I dont think so. confused-smiley-013.gif

Original art is offically DEAD as investment vehicles. D-E-A-D

 

Color guides are where it's at. People would MUCH rather own a finished work of art than a preliminary, unfinished black and white piece.

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Mushroom

Mushroom

Posted
Posted
Really? OK, then shroom has the market cornered for the day that anyone learns to give a rats arse. Maybe one day he will make a fortune. But, I dont think so. confused-smiley-013.gif

Original art is offically DEAD as investment vehicles. D-E-A-D

 

Color guides are where it's at. People would MUCH rather own a finished work of art than a preliminary, unfinished black and white piece.

 

BHD I am trying to get credibility here and you are not helping.......can you find another KK thread to bash him on? hi.gif

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blowout

blowout

Posted
Posted
I am not cornering the market on anything.....I just feel lucky that I can have something very important in the comic book process for a relatively small amount of money. They will never be for sale while I am alive as the joy I get from looking at them (I would go through all my folders at least once a month) is endless. I truly never tire of them.

 

Very well said. This is exactly the kind of sentiment we need more of on these boards. People posting about what they like to collect and are passionate about.

Too much of the stuff that gets aired on these boards revolves around money and it's dragging them down.

 

By the way 'shroom, the Batman painting is cloud9.gif thanks for sharing!

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Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted

What is clear to me is that not all color guides are created equal as not all colorists are created equal. I think Mushroom's argument stands in respect of certain artists... how can you really just look at the linework on a BWS cover when the color is of HUGE significance to his vision? After all, why do you think he colors it himself? I guarantee you that it's because he doesn't trust anyone else to color his work in a way he feels it would do justice.

 

Personally I'd be interested in hearing more about them from mushroom... I don't know much about them and I would wager that a lack of general education in the marketplace is part of the reason that they are not largely collected.

 

1. Are they unique? (one copy or multiples?)

2. How can they be readily identified as original? If the guides are in some cases colored stats, would that make forgeries easier?

3. What are some of your favorites?

4. What are types of production art are there? Can you post some?

5. What's the market on say a Bats 232 cover guide like that?

 

thanks

Dan

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blowout

blowout

Posted
Posted
I'll go one further and say I'm pretty much completely ignorant about other production art and I bet I'm not the only one... Mushroom?

 

I'd be interested in hearing the answers to your questions also Bronty, either from Mushroom or someone else who has experience in this type of collecting.

893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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Timulty

Timulty

Posted
Posted

Listen, I am not saying the color guides don't belong to OA forum or Market but if I were to chose from an ink piece and color guide, the color guide loses. Between print and color guide...the color guide wins.

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Mushroom

Mushroom

Posted
Posted
Listen, I am not saying the color guides don't belong to OA forum or Market but if I were to chose from an ink piece and color guide, the color guide loses. Between print and color guide...the color guide wins.

 

If I were to chose from an hand coloured piece or an ink piece than I would chose an hand coloured piece. The ink piece loses.

 

I would never buy a print or a re-creation as they are not part of the comic creation process.

 

Thankyou for your magnaminous jesture and in reciprocation I don't mind if pencils and inks are part of the OA forum either.

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Mushroom

Mushroom

Posted
Posted
What is clear to me is that not all color guides are created equal as not all colorists are created equal. I think Mushroom's argument stands in respect of certain artists... how can you really just look at the linework on a BWS cover when the color is of HUGE significance to his vision? After all, why do you think he colors it himself? I guarantee you that it's because he doesn't trust anyone else to color his work in a way he feels it would do justice.

 

Personally I'd be interested in hearing more about them from mushroom... I don't know much about them and I would wager that a lack of general education in the marketplace is part of the reason that they are not largely collected.

 

1. Are they unique? (one copy or multiples?)

2. How can they be readily identified as original? If the guides are in some cases colored stats, would that make forgeries easier?

3. What are some of your favorites?

4. What are types of production art are there? Can you post some?

5. What's the market on say a Bats 232 cover guide like that?

 

thanks

Dan

 

I thank you all, for at the very least, humouring me. I would love to undertake this and I can guarantee that at the very least it will be interesting.

 

When it comes to prod art I am absolutely agnostic, I have numerous examples of all steps in the process, I have stunning examples and not so stunning and some that are down right diabolical, I have every age, every genre and I have nearly every publisher.

 

I will get on it from next week. thumbsup2.gif

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Mushroom

Mushroom

Posted
Posted

1. Are they unique? (one copy or multiples?)

2. How can they be readily identified as original? If the guides are in some cases colored stats, would that make forgeries easier?

3. What are some of your favorites?

4. What are types of production art are there? Can you post some?

5. What's the market on say a Bats 232 cover guide like that?

 

thanks

Dan

 

To quickly answer these questions..........

 

1. I have never seen a duplicate hand coloured cover. If mods were required after the first colouring then the artists tended to do overlays (either paper cut outs or acetate). All proofs and test covers could have multiples (any generally do) although most weren't kept.

2. The key things to look for in GA, SA and BA is with the writing. As they were xerox's that were handpainted then everything started as black and white (if you were doing it now then the xerox would already show shading, whereas a true handcolour supplies the shading for the printer to copy). In most cases the artist would not colour the writing but instead put a colour line through the writing representing the colour it should be. As well most of the paste ons look like they have been pasted on rather than the more meticulous process undertaken by the printer. It would also be difficult to age and duplicate anything but modern paper and most colour art have authorisation sigs and the like on the back

3. my main collecting taste is DC BA Horror and I tend to collect matched pairs (hand coloured and production proof and sometimes the test cover). i have also been lucky that some Adler file copies were also purchased so in some cases I have the treble. i am trying to put together every piece of HOM still in existence. I have a production cover of #174 that is signed by Adams as proof that he himself feels that he had a role in the creation of that cover. For some reason the Kubert war titles are always stunning. I love anything Wrightson and his bold gold signature on the pieces really make them stand out. There is so much that I love it is hard to single them out...although the Bat #234 is a stunner.

4. I will post and do a little blurb around each stage when I get the time.

5. As I concentrate mostly on horror I wasn't offered the Bat #234 up front. It went on ebay at $799- and didn't garner a bid which absolutely floored me. I then purchased it off ebay for the same amount. I believe I got a bargain. In general hand coloured art goes from anywhere from $50- to more than a thousand. As there is only one of each one, if there are two collectors wanting the same genre then prices tend to steeple and I can tell you that a couple of the genres are keenly fought for (funnily enough romance is one of the most sought after). Production covers go for $25- to a few hundred depending on desireability.

 

Hope that helps.

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heartened

heartened

Posted
Posted

1. Are they unique? (one copy or multiples?)

2. How can they be readily identified as original? If the guides are in some cases colored stats, would that make forgeries easier?

3. What are some of your favorites?

4. What are types of production art are there? Can you post some?

5. What's the market on say a Bats 232 cover guide like that?

 

thanks

Dan

 

To quickly answer these questions..........

 

1. I have never seen a duplicate hand coloured cover. If mods were required after the first colouring then the artists tended to do overlays (either paper cut outs or acetate). All proofs and test covers could have multiples (any generally do) although most weren't kept.

2. The key things to look for in GA, SA and BA is with the writing. As they were xerox's that were handpainted then everything started as black and white (if you were doing it now then the xerox would already show shading, whereas a true handcolour supplies the shading for the printer to copy). In most cases the artist would not colour the writing but instead put a colour line through the writing representing the colour it should be. As well most of the paste ons look like they have been pasted on rather than the more meticulous process undertaken by the printer. It would also be difficult to age and duplicate anything but modern paper and most colour art have authorisation sigs and the like on the back

3. my main collecting taste is DC BA Horror and I tend to collect matched pairs (hand coloured and production proof and sometimes the test cover). i have also been lucky that some Adler file copies were also purchased so in some cases I have the treble. i am trying to put together every piece of HOM still in existence. I have a production cover of #174 that is signed by Adams as proof that he himself feels that he had a role in the creation of that cover. For some reason the Kubert war titles are always stunning. I love anything Wrightson and his bold gold signature on the pieces really make them stand out. There is so much that I love it is hard to single them out...although the Bat #234 is a stunner.

4. I will post and do a little blurb around each stage when I get the time.

5. As I concentrate mostly on horror I wasn't offered the Bat #234 up front. It went on ebay at $799- and didn't garner a bid which absolutely floored me. I then purchased it off ebay for the same amount. I believe I got a bargain. In general hand coloured art goes from anywhere from $50- to more than a thousand. As there is only one of each one, if there are two collectors wanting the same genre then prices tend to steeple and I can tell you that a couple of the genres are keenly fought for (funnily enough romance is one of the most sought after). Production covers go for $25- to a few hundred depending on desireability.

 

Hope that helps.

 

There's no question that color guides have risen in value over the past five years or so that I've been collecting OA. At this point, they definitely have a place in the collecting community, and I do believe they will continue to rise in price. The demand is still quite low in comparison to OA or comic books, though, which is why something like the color guide to Batman 234 sat at that price. I also remember seeing a beautiful color guide to DD 158 (first Miller) that sat forever on a website at something like 500 bucks!

 

I'm glad we're having this discussion, as I do think it's interesting to understand the production process. I'll admit I've never fully thought it through. For better or worse, most collectors prefer the B/W pen and ink art, which has fueled prices. I don't see the bulk of collectors switching to color guides at this point, but I do agree that color guide prices will rise as OA prices are now much higher than many folks can afford, and awareness of other parts of the production process is increasing.

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Mushroom

Mushroom

Posted
Posted

God forbid that they go up in price because then they will stop being things to look at for their beauty and historical importance and people will purchase for the bragging rights and then stick them in a safe deposit box. sorry.gif

 

and least I don't have to worry about cleaning and pressing........ grin.gif

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