What's up with Stan Lee?

[Captain Canuck]

I think the only books that will continue to appreciate are the early books he had a hand in creating. Everything else will be hit or miss regarding whether it has his sig or not. I'm part of the Catch 22, I know a lot of the books I get signed by him have no value and the only reason is intrinsic value, which I assume most people who are buying his books are under the same belief. Once Stan passes there will be a glut of over priced books on the market and people will eventually lower their prices or sit on them. We will probably reach that point where people will not care to dispense with their hard earned cash for a book with his name. Case in point, I like Disney, appreciate Walt Disney, but unless his sig is on something of value to me (Bambi book) for a hundred I am not buying it.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Stan Lee is going to go down as a bigger legend than people think today and he's similar to Walt Disney in that he's the genius behind creating (or co-creating) so many of today's (and tomorrow's) classic characters that will outlast his lifetime, your lifetime and are permanent characters in perennial pop culture.

 

Generations will go by and when he's long since dead, no matter how many of his autographs were signed when he was alive, there won't be enough out there to appease the demand in the future.

 

....maybe. Probably not.

 

Comparisons to Walt Disney aren't realistic. Disney's name is the company name, and has been since the beginning. Marvel Comics isn't "Stan Lee Comics."

 

I remember when Mickey Mantle was at almost every baseball card show signing and after he passed away, people realized he's no longer signing and his autographs once taken for granted were in high demand.

 

Mickey Mantle was a household name in the 1950's and 1960's. Stan Lee doesn't come anywhere near the notoriety that Mickey Mantle enjoyed.

 

I think the key with his signature as an investment is authentication, so those CGC books, any book he signs should have a minimum value of $150 just for the autograph and authentication let alone the aesthetic slabbing.

 

Do you mean "you should only get books that are worth a minimum of $150, to justify the cost of his signature and the slab"...?

 

or

 

"Any book that is signed by Stan and slabbed should then be worth a minimum of $150"...?

 

Because if it's the former, I agree. If it's the latter...the market already says that's not valid.

 

If you look at what he's created in terms of the characters who are popular beyond just people who collect comic books it's amazing.

 

Yes, but people don't know that it's Stan Lee who (co-)created these characters. Comic people know....but the average Joe Six-Pack? Probably not.

[vaillant]

I have very little desire to own Stan Lee SS myself.

 

However, as much as people in the thread are trying to monetize the SS CGC signature aspect of a Stan Lee autograph-- I think they are forgetting the value of getting to meet Stan Lee. Now those people getting more than a few items signed are not included in this statement BUT I can see why it is worth $100 to be in the man's presence getting his autograph and whatever other possible interaction is included. The value of that meeting is hard to put a hard number on short of backing out the cost of the book/sig/cert and seeing the difference in what people will pay (and some have said the process adds lees value than the market will bear). Those people buying the third party obtained SS want the signature, not the experience and they are more rational buyers typically.

 

Perhaps raising the price to $100 will thin the herd of those accumulating the signed books in large quantity for flipping-- leaving those who care more about the experience itself to have greater access. If I were Stan Lee-- that would be my thinking.

 

To me that is a win win-- shorter lines for those who have never met Stan The Man versus Stan the signature. And as someone said-- when he passes, that experience passes with him.

 

 

(thumbs u

 

Comparisons to Walt Disney aren't realistic. Disney's name is the company name, and has been since the beginning. Marvel Comics isn't "Stan Lee Comics."

Comparisions with Walt Disney are out of proportion, but that is not the only reason. If you think of what happened in the last 20 years – how the name "Walt" was dropped from the company name, for example – and then occasionally reinserted in products, well I believe many people do not think of Walt Disney when they see "Disney" as a brand.

What should be nurtured and preserved is the original scope of each person's vision. By dropping the name "Walt" they also implicitly acknowledged they no longer produced something which was truly along the lines that he defined. But they are probably realizing it now.

You also need to reason globally, not just as related to US culture.

 

As far as Stan Lee goes, when they were presented in Italy these were "Stan Lee's superheroes", meaning that he was supposedly him which introduced a renewed conception of the super-hero. The fact that it was not only him has been a cause of discussion and contrasts with time, but in the end he was the glue and the driving force behind what the Marvel Age became.

So, I would never underestimate that, as much as I felt the pain of Jack Kirby or others at a time where their substantial contribution was unrecognized. But time has passed, and I believe that if Jack was still alive they would have reconciled.

 

So, I would entirely agree with 01TheDude's post above: having (or better "purchasing") a book with a signature does not always mean you truly care for what the author has done, or given to you at a given time, but if there is enough effort to sensibilize about deepening our knowledge, then it doesn’t take too much to see Marvel is originally rooted in Stan Lee's vision, even if it really drifted apart from it.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Perhaps raising the price to $100 will thin the herd of those accumulating the signed books in large quantity for flipping--

 

We should totally raise the price of comic books to like, $100...so then, only the real fans can buy one, and we can cut out those flippers...like distributors and retailers.

 

Dirty, dirty flippers.

 

 

Stan's been around for decades, and hasn't been this silly about charging until the last 5 years or so...and THIS silly only this year.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Comparisons to Walt Disney aren't realistic. Disney's name is the company name, and has been since the beginning. Marvel Comics isn't "Stan Lee Comics."

Comparisions with Walt Disney are out of proportion, but that is not the only reason. If you think of what happened in the last 20 years how the name "Walt" was dropped from the company name, for example and then occasionally reinserted in products, well I believe many people do not think of Walt Disney when they see "Disney" as a brand.

What should be nurtured and preserved is the original scope of each person's vision. By dropping the name "Walt" they also implicitly acknowledged they no longer produced something which was truly along the lines that he defined. But they are probably realizing it now.

You also need to reason globally, not just as related to US culture.

 

Walt's been dead for nearly 50 years. Stan's still living. Even dead, more people know who Walt Disney is than Stan Lee, and they certainly know the company name, even if they don't know it was Walt's name.

 

No need to reason globally. US culture still dominates the world, just as British culture did during the 18th and 19th centuries, and Italian culture before that, and Roman culture before that, and Greek culture before that.

 

As far as Stan Lee goes, when they were presented in Italy these were "Stan Lee's superheroes", meaning that he was supposedly him which introduced a renewed conception of the super-hero. The fact that it was not only him has been a cause of discussion and contrasts with time, but in the end he was the glue and the driving force behind what the Marvel Age became.

So, I would never underestimate that, as much as I felt the pain of Jack Kirby or others at a time where their substantial contribution was unrecognized. But time has passed, and I believe that if Jack was still alive they would have reconciled.

 

So, I would entirely agree with 01TheDude's post above: having (or better "purchasing") a book with a signature does not always mean you truly care for what the author has done, or given to you at a given time, but if there is enough effort to sensibilize about deepening our knowledge, then it doesnt take too much to see Marvel is originally rooted in Stan Lee's vision, even if it really drifted apart from it.

 

I appreciate what Stan Lee has done, in the context of the time period that he did it.

 

But, with maybe a very few exceptions, I have *never* red a Stan Lee penned story that made me sit back and go "whoa"...like I have with Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman, Jim Starlin, Peter David, JM DeMatteis, Keith Giffen, and even Marv Wolfman and Jim Shooter.

 

DC comics were written for 6-8 year olds. Marvel comics were written for 11-13 year olds. Vast improvement....but still no Shakespeare, Hemingway, Steinbeck, Dickens, or Fitzgerald. And I also realize that Stan had a LOT of help.

[KPR Comics]

 

Perhaps raising the price to $100 will thin the herd of those accumulating the signed books in large quantity for flipping--

 

We should totally raise the price of comic books to like, $100...so then, only the real fans can buy one, and we can cut out those flippers...like distributors and retailers.

 

Dirty, dirty flippers.

 

 

Stan's been around for decades, and hasn't been this silly about charging until the last 5 years or so...and THIS silly only this year.

Mods notified. This anti-dolphite rhetoric will not be tolerated

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Perhaps raising the price to $100 will thin the herd of those accumulating the signed books in large quantity for flipping--

 

We should totally raise the price of comic books to like, $100...so then, only the real fans can buy one, and we can cut out those flippers...like distributors and retailers.

 

Dirty, dirty flippers.

 

 

Stan's been around for decades, and hasn't been this silly about charging until the last 5 years or so...and THIS silly only this year.

 

that is not what I am saying at all. Calling them "flippers" (and I NEVER referred to them as DIRTY DIRTY) is not meant to be derogatory for starters but let's call them what they are. If Stan was signing for 10 bucks a pop, they would have a stack of books for him to sign and be SS CGC. The fact that the return on getting this done is cost prohibitive if not a losing proposition is what I am referring to. I would doubt some dealer who has met Stan dozens of times has the same interest in meeting him as the average collector who is meeting them for the first and last time. It is an event for most people.

 

I understand your point, but using the word "flipper", which has become a derogatory term, is the issue.

 

The SS program has become a viable niche within the hobby. It is a service that people want, and are willing to pay for. However...many creators think that people are "getting rich" off of their signatures, which simply isn't true.

 

Now...creators can charge whatever they want. It's their time, it's their signature, and if they can convince someone to pay them $100 for it, more power to them.

 

However...the line of reasoning that "people are making "too much" money off of my signature, which is bad, and I need to get a cut of that", is faulty, because that's exactly what publishers, distributors, and retailers are doing: making money off the creator's time and talent.

 

After all...aren't publishers, distributors, and retailers all "making money off of my work"? Yes, of course they are. Did those publishers, distributors, and retailers "earn" that money? Yes, of course they did, by providing a platform which can get the creator's work to the widest audience possible, thus enabling the creator to continue to create.

 

SS "flippers" are doing the exact same thing. They are creating a "product" (and I hate to use that word as much as Dave Sim does) that people want. They are taking one part - the raw comic book, adding another part - the signature, and bringing it together in another part - the certification. All work that the creator doesn't have anything to do with except for the signature.

 

But, because creators don't understand the process, and don't understand the details, we're seeing ever escalating prices, and "true fans" are left in the dust.

 

And that doesn't even mention those of us who "flip" to pay for the ones we keep. Are we not "true fans"?

 

After all...if a creator is concerned that the publisher, distributor, and retailer are "profiting too much off of my work", he can certainly negotiate more, or even publish himself, and set the prices of his work at $100 a copy...that way, only the "true fans" will want to buy it.

 

There's a balance, here, and that balance is swiftly being obliterated.

 

Is the price insane? maybe (or definitely in my opinion). The market will decide and I doubt Stan will lose sleep over it. While some people see it similar to paying for back stage passes or an entry to a celebrity golf tournament or similar types of events-- others see it as a waste of money. Those are choices people are free to make. It is not the same thing as a comic book itself. There is one Stan Lee. There is one line to meet him at an event. There aren't thousands of outlets where you can meet Stan Lee. Just like you can't see The Who play a concert in two places at the same time.

 

bottom line-- you have to separate the signing and process of SS books from what Stan Lee is actually offering - a slice of his time.

 

Stan Lee is NOT offering a slice of his time. When you are in line, you are herded through by Max (his handler), and you get, perhaps, 5 seconds of face time. I got 21 books signed at Comikaze last year (witness), and paid $1260 for the sigs...and the books were roughly handled, and I was swiftly told to "move along." For $1260, you would think I would get a little more than a handshake, but no, that's not how it works. Move along, keep it moving, move move move.

 

 

[Michelangelo]

I would rather meet Stan Lee and have a brief conversation with him than have him sign my comic book - there are too many Stan Lee CGC SS out there... I don't need mine to be one of several thousands.

 

Stan Lee might die with a black sharpie in his hand and a CGC dealer by his side to verify signatures

 

[Captain Canuck]

I would rather meet Stan Lee and have a brief conversation with him than have him sign my comic book - there are too many Stan Lee CGC SS out there... I don't need mine to be one of several thousands.

 

Stan Lee might die with a black sharpie in his hand and a CGC dealer by his side to verify signatures

 

 

Both comments may be insensitive, so I apologize, but I heard that when he dies he requested that Max encapsulate him in human size cgc slab or spread his ashes in a production run of Spider-Stan and slab that, similar to what Gruenwald did with Squadron Supreme.

[rjrjr]

Stan Lee is going to go down as a bigger legend than people think today and he's similar to Walt Disney in that he's the genius behind creating (or co-creating) so many of today's (and tomorrow's) classic characters that will outlast his lifetime, your lifetime and are permanent characters in perennial pop culture.

 

Generations will go by and when he's long since dead, no matter how many of his autographs were signed when he was alive, there won't be enough out there to appease the demand in the future.

 

I remember when Mickey Mantle was at almost every baseball card show signing and after he passed away, people realized he's no longer signing and his autographs once taken for granted were in high demand.

 

I think the key with his signature as an investment is authentication, so those CGC books, any book he signs should have a minimum value of $150 just for the autograph and authentication let alone the aesthetic slabbing.

 

If you look at what he's created in terms of the characters who are popular beyond just people who collect comic books it's amazing.

 

Stan Lee will only achieve the same status as Walt Disney if, after he dies, Marvel pushes his legacy. Disney pushes Walt's legacy on TV, in books, and at the amusement parks. Of course, they see monetary reasons to do so. If Marvel does the same, I believe Stan Lee will have achieved that same status level. But, we won't know any of this until after Stan Lee has died unfortunately.

 

Of course, his legacy with a very, very small group of people (comic collectors) is sealed. But that is a far different number of people than those who know about Walt Disney and his legacy.

[jcjames]

Stan Lee is NOT offering a slice of his time. When you are in line, you are herded through by Max (his handler), and you get, perhaps, 5 seconds of face time.

"face-time"... !

 

IF Stan even has time to look up for you to see him face-to-face, that's rare. They might as well install a moving treadmill for people to stand on as they hand their books to his handlers and are herded along.

 

 

I got 21 books signed at Comikaze last year (witness), and paid $1260 for the sigs...and the books were roughly handled, and I was swiftly told to "move along." For $1260, you would think I would get a little more than a handshake, but no, that's not how it works. Move along, keep it moving, move move move.

You got a handshake!!? Damn. The cover of my ASM #1 was torn during the signing and Stan still never even looked up! (he wasn't feeling well at all at the time and I don't even know if he knew it was torn). The facilitator was able to discount me the cost of Stan's signature for my loss, which was nice of him. But yeah, it's a cattle-chute process and really doesn't need to be.

 

 

[Tony S]

I would rather meet Stan Lee and have a brief conversation with him than have him sign my comic book - there are too many Stan Lee CGC SS out there... I don't need mine to be one of several thousands.

 

Stan Lee might die with a black sharpie in his hand and a CGC dealer by his side to verify signatures

 

 

Both comments may be insensitive, so I apologize, but I heard that when he dies he requested that Max encapsulate him in human size cgc slab or spread his ashes in a production run of Spider-Stan and slab that, similar to what Gruenwald did with Squadron Supreme.

 

I'm no proper judge of being sensitive, but I thought your comment hilariousl!

 

It's all speculation as to what his signature might be worth in the future. . I have some Stan Lee signed books. I stuck with vintage material that he actually worked on and several books looked for things that he had not signed a lot of copies of or that were uncommon books or "special" books. Black Rider #8, Strange Tales 97. I got his signature on a TOS 46 because it's the only book I'm aware of where Iron Man refers to himself on the cover as Anthony Stark - my given name. But like the fictional character, I've always been called Tony

 

So IDK - I tend to think that when Stan is no longer signing books that people will value his signature more still. There isn't anyone else at his level in the hobby. Steve Ditko COULD be if he was interested in signing - but he's not. But if the price doesn't go up, that's OK too. I still enjoy them

 

 

[Captain Canuck]

I would rather meet Stan Lee and have a brief conversation with him than have him sign my comic book - there are too many Stan Lee CGC SS out there... I don't need mine to be one of several thousands.

 

Stan Lee might die with a black sharpie in his hand and a CGC dealer by his side to verify signatures

 

 

Both comments may be insensitive, so I apologize, but I heard that when he dies he requested that Max encapsulate him in human size cgc slab or spread his ashes in a production run of Spider-Stan and slab that, similar to what Gruenwald did with Squadron Supreme.

 

I'm no proper judge of being sensitive, but I thought your comment hilariousl!

 

It's all speculation as to what his signature might be worth in the future. . I have some Stan Lee signed books. I stuck with vintage material that he actually worked on and several books looked for things that he had not signed a lot of copies of or that were uncommon books or "special" books. Black Rider #8, Strange Tales 97. I got his signature on a TOS 46 because it's the only book I'm aware of where Iron Man refers to himself on the cover as Anthony Stark - my given name. But like the fictional character, I've always been called Tony

 

So IDK - I tend to think that when Stan is no longer signing books that people will value his signature more still. There isn't anyone else at his level in the hobby. Steve Ditko COULD be if he was interested in signing - but he's not. But if the price doesn't go up, that's OK too. I still enjoy them

 

 

Also, maybe Frank Miller, John Byrne and Alan Moore. Both have had a big impact in their areas.

[Captain Canuck]

[Fan Boy]

Stan Lee is plenty active on the Comic Con circuit. He was at Amazing Hawaii mid September. Below is what is listed on StanLeecollectibles.com, which is NOT everything. For instance, I know he showed up for one day at Charlotte (Heroescon 2015)

 

His signature is now $100. And as the OP mentioned, DWC split into two separate companies. DWC now works with Voldemort. Celestial-comics.com - works with CGC.

 

 

Emerald City Comic Con Seattle, WA March 27-29th, 2015

 

Mega Con Orlando, FL April 10-12th, 2015

 

Calgary Comic & Entertainment Expo Calgary, AB April 16-19th, 2015

 

C2E2 Chicago, IL April 24-26th, 2015

 

AC*BC: Atlantic City Boardwalk Con Atlantic City, NJ May 14-17th, 2015

 

Comicpalooza Houston, TX May 22-25th, 2015

 

Dallas Fax Expo Dallas, TX May 29-31st, 2015

 

Comic Con International: San Diego

 

San Diego, CA July 8-12th, 2015

Boston Comic Con Boston, MA July 31-Aug 2nd,,2015

 

Alamo City Comic Con San Antonio, TX

Sep 11th-Sep 13th,2015

 

Amazing Hawaii Con Honolulu, Hi

Sep 18th-Sept 20th,2015

 

Interesting.... Only one Canadian location that Stan had but cancelled his show up. Not Canada Fan Expo or Vancouver Fan Expo in 2016?

 

Those dates and schedule are for 2015.

 

I am aware of that... Let me rephrase my question: Will Stan Lee show up in any of Canadian fan expo shows in 2016? I ask because this year he was supposed to show up in Calgary ( which was cancelled).

[Captain Canuck]

I am aware of that... Let me rephrase my question: Will Stan Lee show up in any of Canadian fan expo shows in 2016? I ask because this year he was supposed to show up in Calgary ( which was cancelled).

 

We will know sometime at the beginning of the new year.

[Prince Namor]

I think in general, people just want to say they had a chance to meet him and the signature is just an added bonus. Especially as he's getting up there in age.

 

A shame they're sort of milking that for more money.

 

 

[botolo]

I have never been at a trade show in the U.S. and I have never been through the signing process. So, please forgive me if this is not a proper question.

 

Let's say that Stan is going to be at Comikaze. I understand that if I want to have something signed by him, I have to pay $100. Let's say that I care about the signature, but that I mostly care about spending few seconds with him and tell him how much I am thankful, and maybe get a photo with him. Can I do this during my signing time or will I be pushed away? If I am going to be pushed away, is there any other way I can buy me some time? Maybe having him sign more comics and paying the extra money?

[Captain Canuck]

I have never been at a trade show in the U.S. and I have never been through the signing process. So, please forgive me if this is not a proper question.

 

Let's say that Stan is going to be at Comikaze. I understand that if I want to have something signed by him, I have to pay $100. Let's say that I care about the signature, but that I mostly care about spending few seconds with him and tell him how much I am thankful, and maybe get a photo with him. Can I do this during my signing time or will I be pushed away? If I am going to be pushed away, is there any other way I can buy me some time? Maybe having him sign more comics and paying the extra money?

 

Tell him how thankful you are of him, yes; photo of him, no. If you want a photo with him they may have a photo op with Stan, which is another cost. They may also have a meet and greet, but that is not much different than combining a photo op and signature.

[piper]

Stan Lee is plenty active on the Comic Con circuit. He was at Amazing Hawaii mid September. Below is what is listed on StanLeecollectibles.com, which is NOT everything. For instance, I know he showed up for one day at Charlotte (Heroescon 2015)

 

His signature is now $100. And as the OP mentioned, DWC split into two separate companies. DWC now works with Voldemort. Celestial-comics.com - works with CGC.

 

 

Emerald City Comic Con Seattle, WA March 27-29th, 2015

 

Mega Con Orlando, FL April 10-12th, 2015

 

Calgary Comic & Entertainment Expo Calgary, AB April 16-19th, 2015

 

C2E2 Chicago, IL April 24-26th, 2015

 

AC*BC: Atlantic City Boardwalk Con Atlantic City, NJ May 14-17th, 2015

 

Comicpalooza Houston, TX May 22-25th, 2015

 

Dallas Fax Expo Dallas, TX May 29-31st, 2015

 

Comic Con International: San Diego

 

San Diego, CA July 8-12th, 2015

Boston Comic Con Boston, MA July 31-Aug 2nd,,2015

 

Alamo City Comic Con San Antonio, TX

Sep 11th-Sep 13th,2015

 

Amazing Hawaii Con Honolulu, Hi

Sep 18th-Sept 20th,2015

 

Interesting.... Only one Canadian location that Stan had but cancelled his show up. Not Canada Fan Expo or Vancouver Fan Expo in 2016?

 

Those dates and schedule are for 2015.

 

I am aware of that... Let me rephrase my question: Will Stan Lee show up in any of Canadian fan expo shows in 2016? I ask because this year he was supposed to show up in Calgary ( which was cancelled).

 

As mentioned previously in this thread he was just in Edmonton. I was thrilled to get him to autograph a photo that I had with him a few years ago.