Matt Wagner - Why isn't he more popular with OA collectors?

[Lucky Baru]

(Might as well get it out of the way and state that I like Matt’s art. Why else would I start the thread.)

 

The work that Matt does is distinctive and in a style all his own. Not as distinctive as let say Sam Kieth or Bill Sienkiewicz but it is distinctive. At the same time, you can say that he tips his hat to the artist that produced works before him . He works on major characters and he has a good reputation in the comic industry.

 

What is your view on his work and why his pages are so affordable? Is there too much of it out there or is there some other reason he doesn't generate the hysteria of other artist? His Batman pages are cheap compare to other guys just as well known by collectors.

[eewwnuk]

his artwork is not dynamic enough for the batman imo.

[AKA Rick]

I think it's also in part, he's done a few one shots and mini-series type work, but not as a recurring artist on the main title (Batman or Detective) teamed with a writer and story arc that resonates with fans, so he becomes a good artist, but one of many who've rendered the dark detective, thus maybe less remarkable in terms of the demand for the supply of art available.

 

He's also not a relevant artist today in terms of pushing out material to keep him top of mind, nor has a body of work that is hugely popular beyond the fans of his creations, Grendel and Mage that makes him a legend like famed Batman artists Neal Adams, Gene Colan or Marshall Rogers.

 

If you're a fan, consider yourself lucky... you should be acquiring his artwork now. You never know if his career gets a resurgence or nostalgia for his art kicks in, depleting the currently available supply and driving prices up... the good if not great aspect of you being a fan is, if you acquire any of the art, no matter what others say, no matter whether others want it nor not, no matter if it goes up or down in value, you'll still treasure and enjoy the artwork regardless of others perception and a future price tag.

[Lucky Baru]

 

If you're a fan, consider yourself lucky... you should be acquiring his artwork now. You never know if his career gets a resurgence or nostalgia for his art kicks in, depleting the currently available supply and driving prices up... the good if not great aspect of you being a fan is, if you acquire any of the art, no matter what others say, no matter whether others want it nor not, no matter if it goes up or down in value, you'll still treasure and enjoy the artwork regardless of others perception and a future price tag.

 

Oh, I do pick-up pages that I like when they pop up. If they ever wanted to do a story arch/mini series in the 1950's with the Bat's character Matt's style would be perfect. The way he drew Grendel vs. The Shadow books were great. Maybe he doesn't do regular work as he's not hurting for money in the way other artist are/have been. Just a guess but creating a popular character and owning it like Grendel might give him a bit more freedom to do what he wants to do instead of what he has to do if that make sense.

 

In reverence to you point about being a fan - I've picked up Liefeld pages over the last 10-15 years. I just have always been a fan and have always had fun with my friends who say "Oh man, Liefeld? The guy only draws pages with big guns and no feet." When they see some of the pages I have then they usually say something like "Hey, I remember that page. Isn't that from...." It seems that he's work is as much a part of their memories as it is mine.

 

Rob's work is starting to climb in value and that fine but I'll never sell any of the pages I have.

[Doc McCoy]

his artwork is not dynamic enough for the batman imo.

 

I have this piece by him and I thought he captured the Bat perfectly.

 

[staffman]

I like his artwork as well, but outside of a few Batman pages or the second run of Mage I never seem to find his work for sale. Did he sell those issues or hold onto them?

 

I grew up reading Mage the Hero Discovered so many times the books are falling apart. I really love the artwork,he did in that series, especially as the artwork continued with his airbrush style of coloring. I agree that while he's got some great work out there, he never grew to the heights of some of the other artists from that time. Outside of the 2 Batman mini's he did has he done anything recently art wise? I'd love to see more of his work and I'm always holding out hope he'd do another Mage run.

[AKA Rick]

Fandom towards artwork is subjective.

 

I personally like Matt Wagner's artwork and as person who I've met at conventions, he's a really nice guy on top of it all, which makes me like his art even that much more.

 

Liefeld's art I also like, and whenever I've met him at signing appearances he's been nice too.

 

I can see the criticism towards his art, but don't always agree, since as fans of art, we're not looking for photo realistic renderings ('tho, to disclose, I also am a fan of Greg Land's art too) and even within the world of comic books (forget about comparing against modern abstract art), it would also be easy to criticize works by revered artists from A to Z including Frank Miller (look at his work on DK2, 'tho maybe comparing an artist's pinnacle work vs his early work or later work may not be fair).

 

 

[Dumur]

I'm not really knowledgeable about his mainstream work and therefore not interested in it, at any price, but if the right Mage piece came along, I'd definitely be interested.

[Lucky Baru]

his artwork is not dynamic enough for the batman imo.

 

I have this piece by him and I thought he captured the Bat perfectly.

 

 

That's a nice page. It flows really well and tells a short story in those panels. Nice pick up.

[Bird]

Matt is a fantastic artist and I have owned a few pages over the years. Nothing currently, although at one time Grendel was one of my 3 collecting foci along with Doc Strange and Starman. But Matt missed a real chance to establish himself as a creative force by never finishing Mage and letting Grendel run out. He went and took on a steady gig, which is the same decision I made in my own life so I get it. But foregoing the work that brought him to the comic fan's attention without finishing it left him as someone you kinda stopped watching after a while. So yeah, he some of this and some of that and generally seems to have a steady career. But he became one of the crowd where he was once a true individual.

 

And yes, he is a gentleman and seems a genuinely pleasant and happy man.

[Brian Peck]

Matt has also been writing with others handling the art. He has been also drawing for the smaller publishers like Dark Horse and Dynamite, so he isn't as high profile. He likes to work on classic pulp/adventure characters like Shadow, Spirit and Zorro.

I think those characters fit him well. I have been lucky enough to pick up some of his recent artwork.

[Bird]

I agree Brian, his work on that stuff is perfect for the characters and still looks like great Matt Wagner stuff.

[Khazano]

For me, any of Matt's art I've ever wanted has always been one of his painted color covers. Which I find are very much in demand and can carry a premium. His black and white stuff I'm not so interested in though and as per your post, seems like many collectors agree. I guess, even though I know it's not true, I personally just view him as a cover artist.

[Koa]

Good question. In the work I've seen, which is just a couple of the DC book he did with Batman, Superman and Wonder woman and some covers I think maybe because he's work is more primitive than what people are into today. Wagner's work, imo, is composition oriented. He focuses on shape, contrast, he doesn't render much or try to create the illusion of realism. I think it's great and I really love his storytelling.

[vodou]

My opinion, Matt's popularity to collectors is on slow burn...but that can change at any time. Clearly he has a small dedicated fanbase that buys his work at current prices. Otherwise we'd see the dumping that occurs from time to time on eBay as collectors get disgusted and exit his corner or collecting art altogether. So there is support that takes up new and existing supply at decent prices.

 

All it would take to turn up the heat would be a nicely produced "Art of" book or a major collector coming in and snapping up all the vintage work in a very public way, paying higher than expected prices, talking it all up and displaying it prominently. Putting a higher floor under the best stuff than most are aware of or would anticipate. Probably a million other things could happen and get the same result too, a collector reassessment of his work and his place in 80s-present comics. The work is solid and attractive, both as covers and panels - that's not the issue. The issue is just that the corner needs to be turned on everybody needing "just one". (Which always becomes, two, three, four, etc.) Right now few feel that burn.

[Lucky Baru]

My opinion, Matt's popularity to collectors is on slow burn...but that can change at any time. Clearly he has a small dedicated fanbase that buys his work at current prices. Otherwise we'd see the dumping that occurs from time to time on eBay as collectors get disgusted and exit his corner or collecting art altogether. So there is support that takes up new and existing supply at decent prices.

 

All it would take to turn up the heat would be a nicely produced "Art of" book or a major collector coming in and snapping up all the vintage work in a very public way, paying higher than expected prices, talking it all up and displaying it prominently. Putting a higher floor under the best stuff than most are aware of or would anticipate. Probably a million other things could happen and get the same result too, a collector reassessment of his work and his place in 80s-present comics. The work is solid and attractive, both as covers and panels - that's not the issue. The issue is just that the corner needs to be turned on everybody needing "just one". (Which always becomes, two, three, four, etc.) Right now few feel that burn.

 

Those are good points.

 

While I hope that Matt gets his due in the collector's market I hope it doesn't happen for a couple of more years. That way I can get a few more choice pages into my collection whenever they hit the market.

 

 

[vodou]

I should add, the real rewards always accrue to the dedicated collectors with a bit of foresight. When an artist's work is largely priced the same across the board, dedicated collectors can ferret out the best art, the best storylines from that large unattended body without making great sacrifices. Then when the rest of collecting takes notice and decides to start buying, the best stuff is already locked up at very good prices by those that cannot (or prefer not to) afford to pay the "new" market prices. This creates an interesting dynamic: the rest left lying about gets slowly bought up, that's all that's easily available and the best rarely moves, even in the face of higher and higher offers, because the dedicated collectors know they can't/won't replace what they give up. This creates the upward vortex of growing demand meeting very limited supply (best of the best). It's a lot of fun to watch, even more fun to participate in.

 

This, I believe, will eventually happen to Matt Wagner's market. Now is the time to cull the better art and better storylines and then sit back sated and wait for the action to come in. That Batman panel page showed earlier, if I could get twenty of comparable quality for FMV, I'd be all over it and looking for more! But my days of digging around, scrutinizing every corner of an artist's oeuvre, scratching out deals like that are mostly over. I'm older and more than a bit tired. You can't have it all (and if you did, where would you store it???) Instead it's Lucky Baru and a handful of others that will carry Matt's torch, and I think that's great. It's what keeps the hobby alive: fresh interest and scholarship in previously overlooked bodies of work.

 

You heard it here first: Matt's average post-indie 80s work will double from here in ten years (if bought right). His better/best will triple to quintuple. Find what you love for the right price (and don't be afraid to bargain some have gathered a lot of dust), live with it, and cash out when it's time!

[Nexus]

For my favorite Wagner art, MAGE and GRENDEL, values have been quite high for some time, and keeps going higher. No predictions about the future, just stating what's been going on.

[heartened]

For my favorite Wagner art, MAGE and GRENDEL, values have been quite high for some time, and keeps going higher. No predictions about the future, just stating what's been going on.

 

Agree. I'm a huge fan of Grendel, his original run including Devil by the Deed, as well as the first Mage series. Brilliant and way ahead if his time. I have a bunch if that art but always looking for more.

 

[Lucky Baru]

One of four new Wagner pages that are Christmas gifts from my wife to me.