There's a Restored 9.4 Tec 33 Blowing up on Ebay

[VintageComics]

If the book has an unnatural feel that should be penalized in a perfect world

 

I believe CGC does take this into account.

[Gotham Kid]

The books seem to be doing pretty well at auction. Speaking for ComicConnect results.

 

#41 Peter your killing me.

 

 

I'm talking about the books that Meyers has worked on. I honestly think the Tec 33 and Hulk 1 shouldn't have been listed on eBay, much less at peak Xmas period. Bad timing.

 

I was talking to a friend about this the other day. Would Christmas play a big part in listing an expensive comic. I suppose people are busy and maybe not as many eyes on it but for people who have deep pockets surely it can't be because of financial struggles over Christmas.

 

I have never looked into it but interesting point to bring up. Does it have a big effect with these expensive comics?

 

People with deep enough pockets not to feel any kind of sting don't usually buy restored.

[VintageComics]

Well I do infact know (as I wanted a pep so researched the market) that the 9.4 cgc was done by the restorers in qustion

 

CGC must of been happy to grade that one for some reason

 

It is entirely possible that

 

a) this may have been graded earlier than the other books and CGC has changed their stance

b) this book didn't receive the same amount of work and is therefore not the same as the other books

c) some other reason

 

But CGC has in the past made a judgement call on a unique situation and then changed their position after gathering more knowledge about the subject.

[Gotham Kid]

Well I do infact know (as I wanted a pep so researched the market) that the 9.4 cgc was done by the restorers in qustion

 

CGC must of been happy to grade that one for some reason

 

It is entirely possible that

 

a) this may have been graded earlier than the other books and CGC has changed their stance

b) this book didn't receive the same amount of work and is therefore not the same as the other books

 

But CGC has in the past made a judgement call on a unique situation and then changed their position after gathering more knowledge about the subject.

 

[*matterus023*]

Well I do infact know (as I wanted a pep so researched the market) that the 9.4 cgc was done by the restorers in qustion

 

CGC must of been happy to grade that one for some reason

 

It is entirely possible that

 

a) this may have been graded earlier than the other books and CGC has changed their stance

b) this book didn't receive the same amount of work and is therefore not the same as the other books

c) some other reason

 

But CGC has in the past made a judgement call on a unique situation and then changed their position after gathering more knowledge about the subject.

 

All possible and very plausable...... but could easily give another a,b,c as to why on the flip side. Sure someone on here will buy one soon enough then maybe/hopefully they will be able to shed some bright light on this :-)

[lou_fine]

The label bothers me a lot, there really should be more to show the book is restored than two small words in the same font as the rest of the info.

 

There is, there's a total of 25 words to describe the restoration work done on the book.

[*matterus023*]

The books seem to be doing pretty well at auction. Speaking for ComicConnect results.

 

#41 Peter your killing me.

 

 

I'm talking about the books that Meyers has worked on. I honestly think the Tec 33 and Hulk 1 shouldn't have been listed on eBay, much less at peak Xmas period. Bad timing.

 

I was talking to a friend about this the other day. Would Christmas play a big part in listing an expensive comic. I suppose people are busy and maybe not as many eyes on it but for people who have deep pockets surely it can't be because of financial struggles over Christmas.

 

I have never looked into it but interesting point to bring up. Does it have a big effect with these expensive comics?

 

People with deep enough pockets not to feel any kind of sting don't usually buy restored.

 

That being said people dropping thousands on these

 

[Gotham Kid]

The books seem to be doing pretty well at auction. Speaking for ComicConnect results.

 

#41 Peter your killing me.

 

 

I'm talking about the books that Meyers has worked on. I honestly think the Tec 33 and Hulk 1 shouldn't have been listed on eBay, much less at peak Xmas period. Bad timing.

 

I was talking to a friend about this the other day. Would Christmas play a big part in listing an expensive comic. I suppose people are busy and maybe not as many eyes on it but for people who have deep pockets surely it can't be because of financial struggles over Christmas.

 

I have never looked into it but interesting point to bring up. Does it have a big effect with these expensive comics?

 

People with deep enough pockets not to feel any kind of sting don't usually buy restored.

 

That being said people dropping thousands on these

 

The 2 eBay auctions appear to be highly suspect. Just saying.

[MrBedrock]

Well I do infact know (as I wanted a pep so researched the market) that the 9.4 cgc was done by the restorers in qustion

 

So let me get this straight...you researched the market enough to find out that a certain book (Pep 22) had work done by a certain restorer (Matt Meyers). But you haven't researched his work in particular so you would love for someone else to buy one and crack it out so they can tell you what the work is. Yet you are comfortable in defending his work against others who have some knowledge of exactly what his work is. Something peculiar about that...no disrespect to you...just sayin'.

[*matterus023*]

No disrepect taken

 

All I am saying is I found out that he restored the pep 22 cgc 9.4. Didn't exactly take me days to do.

 

Plus not defending just not joining in the circle pushing the kid on the middle. When/if I have the FACTS about their work handed to me I will then make my own assumptions on their work

 

Look no drama. All is good

 

Plus like I have said hearing from someone that someone told them that they had handled one and their comics and the techinques where not to their liking just isn't how I would go about judging their work. They could be right just like to make my own mind up is all. Or maybe like I have said the other restorer has an agenda. Not saying that in this circumstance this is true but to rule that out is a bit silly

[lou_fine]

Looking at a comic through a slab and having it to touch and feel are not even something to be compared.

 

Totally agree with this. It is central to my concern with the whole topic. If a restorer is slathering on fixatives over color to create a sheen under which all defects and any hint of originality are hidden, and the graders allow that book into a holder with a high number on it because it looks nice, then whoever cracks it out will be sorely disappointed when they touch and feel a comic that is stiff as a board.

 

If the book has an unnatural feel that should be penalized in a perfect world

 

+1

 

Yes, the book should clearly be graded from both a visual and touch or feel point of view.

 

If it feels stiff and unnatural and unlike the original cover or interiors, then it should clearly be penalized from a grading point of view.

 

If the extensive restoration work was so superbly done that the entire book (both exterior cover and interior pages) felt natural and completely indistinguishable from the original and also had the visual appearance of a 9.8 NM/Mint book, then I would have no problem with it receiving an Extensive Restored 9.8 graded label.

 

This should be enough information to allow all bidders to make their own determination as to their valuation of the book based upon the level of restoration on the book. After all, the Extensive Restored label should be telling you something already.

[sacentaur]

Sure someone on here will buy one soon enough then maybe/hopefully they will be able to shed some bright light on this :-)

 

I wouldn't be so sure - if someone is reading this board, chances are they're astute enough to not chase one these Frankenbooks (for wont of a better term), especially when they're apparently being shilled.

 

Perhaps you will step up and meet the challenge?

[*matterus023*]

Sure someone on here will buy one soon enough then maybe/hopefully they will be able to shed some bright light on this :-)

 

I wouldn't be so sure - if someone is reading this board, chances are they're astute enough to not chase one these Frankenbooks (for wont of a better term), especially when they're apparently being shilled.

 

Perhaps you will step up and meet the challenge?

 

I would love to have enough money to drop like this on a regular basis. Maybe one day I will get there. Only been in the business of collecting comics for around 4 years now and loving every second of it

 

 

[bluechip]

How can it be a pedigree and extensively restored?

 

I was wondering that as well. Between this and the restored "9.8" showcase 4 Voldy has coming up in the next CC auction, whatever remaining regard I had for that other company and their grading/labeling practices has pretty much left the building.

 

-J.

 

It isn't reasonable to pretend that you ever had any opinion of the other company except to attack it relentlessly from the beginning for its audacity to exist in the first place. And you've done so while relentlessly hawking the value of CGC'd moderns and variants.

 

Pretty much just your opinion and an extreme mischaracterisation of what are my (and many, many others') real and valid concerns with that company.

 

And yes, I collect high dollar moderns as well.

 

-J.

 

You can collect "high dollar moderns" without ever getting a complaint from me, or even my observance that it's an oxymoron. You can even extol their value to a degree I find excessive without ever getting a complaint from me. But when you devote considerable effort to extolling their value while simultaneously making an effort to devalue other people's property I will not refrain from pointing out the contradiction nd the appearance of malicious intent (though I could never hope to match or would ever want to match the number of times and places you say it).

 

And my observation about your jihad against the other company is no less than 100% accurate. This book is nearly identical to others I have seen like it from CGC (i.e. a 9.4 heavily restored) in absolutely every significant respect with the possible exception of the label color, which you have decried from the beginning. So to hold this up as something that altered your predisposed opinion in any way is disingenuous.

 

I find it odd that you believe my expressing (along with numerous other boardies) a distate for the other company's labeling and grading practices is comparable to a "jihad". And I find it nearly equally puzzling why you find the fact that I also have an extensive modern collection to be relevant to this conversation or this book.

 

You may want to take a step back from the ledge and reevaluate some of your choices of words.

 

These are just comic books we're talking about here after all.

 

-J.

 

The point was that you were pretending your distaste for their grading etc was somehow not as bad until you saw this book, and I was pointing out that CGC also has given high grades for books that began in poor condition.

 

The comment about you collecting moderns is not puzzling when it's made clear, as I did, that it's directly and specifically in regard to the way you keep coming here to say that this or that rare book is overvalued. The fact that you say, at the same time, that common modern books are undervalued bears pointing out.

 

Yeah, they are just comics after all. But you seemed really worked up about this one.

[bluechip]

I think the main issue people have Is with the restoration practice - this appears more recreation than restoration and how much is original is impossible to tell, but we can make a reasonable guess.

 

It's clear for some of these covers what your looking at is not at all original just piece fill or leaf casting and extensive paint over an uncertain amount/quality of original veneer.

 

I don't believe a book that is that heavily restored should receive exceptionally high grades.

 

I'm guessing CGC agreed, which is why these books are graded by the other company.

 

So, the second issue is with the grading company giving high grades to recreated books.

 

Doing so lends credibility to a practice that may result in a proliferation of these types of books, which I think is a mistake and bad for the hobby.

 

Of course, it may make lightly restored or unrestored books more valuable.

 

Alternatively, when there are numerous extensively restored CBCS hulk 1's in 9.2-9.8 and hundreds more that but for some restoration expense could join that club what happens to their novelty and value?

 

 

 

I would have no problem with a restored book being labeled with the grade it would get prior to resto, or perhaps a two number grade such as 1.0/8.0 showing what it was before and what it was after. It would be more fair to lower grade books with resto that didn't impact the grade and more fair to people who held off trying to max out the number

[bluechip]

How can CBCS reasonably be expected to include all of this text on their "record-breaking" 9.8 labels?

 

Professional Restoration includes: tear seals, spine splits sealed, color touch, cleaned, reinforced, leprechaun charmed, pieces added to cover, pieces added to interior, staples replaced, kissed by Elvis, interior lightened, married centerfold, married cover, re-glossed, all three edges trimmed, unicorn glow.

 

Now that comics are sometimes worth more than vintage cars or houses (which carry a good deal of paperwork re what has -- or hasn't -- been done, it might make sense that the amount of supporting paperwork for comics be increased.

[bluechip]

I remember a pep 22 selling on comicconnect that was a cgc 9.4 extensive.

 

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=611265

 

Would be interesting if it was the same restorer as then cgc would seem that they are or at least were happy to grade for him

 

I owned this book when it was an 8.0 restored. It was "re-restored" a short time later, got the higher grade and tens of thousands more.

[ThothAmon]

The most troubling part of this auction for me is that someone with actual knowledge of this book has not yet commented in this thread. With a book like that for sale I am fairly certain the seller or someone who knows the seller is aware of this conversation. Lots of potential buyers here that could use a little reassurance. Yet crickets. ? Not an auction por moi.

[rodan57]

In anyone's big picture, we're not really that important at all.

[lou_fine]

I think the main issue people have Is with the restoration practice - this appears more recreation than restoration and how much is original is impossible to tell, but we can make a reasonable guess.

 

It's clear for some of these covers what your looking at is not at all original just piece fill or leaf casting and extensive paint over an uncertain amount/quality of original veneer.

 

I don't believe a book that is that heavily restored should receive exceptionally high grades.

 

I'm guessing CGC agreed, which is why these books are graded by the other company.

 

So, the second issue is with the grading company giving high grades to recreated books.

 

Doing so lends credibility to a practice that may result in a proliferation of these types of books, which I think is a mistake and bad for the hobby.

 

Of course, it may make lightly restored or unrestored books more valuable.

 

Alternatively, when there are numerous extensively restored CBCS hulk 1's in 9.2-9.8 and hundreds more that but for some restoration expense could join that club what happens to their novelty and value?

 

 

 

I would have no problem with a restored book being labeled with the grade it would get prior to resto, or perhaps a two number grade such as 1.0/8.0 showing what it was before and what it was after. It would be more fair to lower grade books with resto that didn't impact the grade and more fair to people who held off trying to max out the number

 

I doubt the graders would have enough restoration expertise to be able to determine the full extent of the resto work so that they would be able to accurately determine the pre-restoration condition grade of books on a consistent basis, without some degree of guesswork being involved.

 

As CGC have always stated, they grade the book that is in front of them as opposed to trying to guess on the prior condition of a book.