STAR WARS : Episode VIII December 15, 2017 4 4

[valiantman]

On 1/2/2018 at 1:40 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Saw this over on Quora -- that the tracking-through-lightspeed tech was previously referenced in Rogue One:

The Last Jedi’s primary plot driver—hyperspace tracking—is an Easter egg. The technology was mentioned in Rogue One when Jyn Erso happened across its plans on Scarif while searching for the Death Star plans.

This direct reference has been confirmed by Pablo Hidalgo, a Lucasfilm story development executive. Hyperspace tracking was one of the technologies being researched by Grand Moff Tarkin, but the technology was only perfected by the First Order.

Are we saying that Boba Fett didn't use hyperspace tracking to follow the Millenium Falcon?

[comix4fun]

24 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Are we saying that Boba Fett didn't use hyperspace tracking to follow the Millenium Falcon?

Do you mean when the falcon floated away with the garbage before going to Bespin in ESB? 

[Rip]

7 hours ago, valiantman said:

Are we saying that Boba Fett didn't use hyperspace tracking to follow the Millenium Falcon?

Yes remember he couldn't go to Hyperspace, it was basicly broken, up until the end of the movie. 

Has anyone seen these movies?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9exuBFKQOlU

Edited January 4, 2018 by Rip

[zhamlau]

On 1/2/2018 at 3:34 PM, rjrjr said:

As predicted, TLJ moved into 1st place for 2017 and passed Rogue One internationally over the weekend.  Yesterday, it would have passed The Dark Knight domestically and it is on track to pass The Avengers domestically.  Whether or not it will overtake Jurassic World or Titanic domestically is up in the air.  But it will finish in the top 5 domestic grosses of all time.  It is likely it will break into the top 10 international grosses of all time.  It opens in China this coming weekend and how it does there will determine where it falls in the top 10.  China has not been kind to the Star Wars franchise.

Again, not a shock. They could have strung together old episodes of "Lexx" and slapped that star wars title on it, and the film would have done a billion dollars. People are buying in the most part the name.

 

The problem comes when you compare it to TFA. In a weaker economy on fewer screens and more fan fear of failure, it did substantially better over its first 2 weeks (nearly 200 million dollars) versus TLJ. Comparing it to Rogue One is unfair because RO is a tangential story, not part of main line star wars and people were unsure it doesnt carry the full "star wars" cache. The fact that the movie is more comparable to RO than TFA is a HUGE PROBLEM for Disney.

Long and short, Disney isn't caring about the fact it broke a billion, it had no chance NOT to with the 500 million they spent (advertising and production estimates) making it. What Disney will see is that Rian Johnson managed to make a movie so flawed from a basic storytelling perspective to the fact that 1/2 of the fans literally felt cheated and insulted, that they managed to LOSE 200 million versus what TFA did.

He had everything going for him, great lead in (TFA) and a professional reviewers in pocket knowing they had to be kind to this movie for multiple reasons. They had one of the strongest domestic economies in our countries history with more disposable income then ever before, and Strong word of mouth support and intrigue from fans before it debuted....and Johnson so blew it this film is potentially going to earn 400 million dollars less than TFA and there is no earthly reason why except how badly he messed up and how it killed repeat viewing and word of mouth endorsements bringing in casual fans.

 

[NewEnglandGothic]

On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 5:25 PM, ComicConnoisseur said:

btw The LAST JEDI has reignited my passion about Star Wars again. Been buying a few books about Star Wars lately.

Three weeks ago I wasn't even thinking about Star Wars and now here I am back into again.

 

Have you seen this 2 1/2 hour documentary yet?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Dreams

I bought the Star Wars: Special Edition DVD set a yard sale two years ago, just for that for about $3.

It was brilliant!

Personally note: safe driving in out Hoth-like system today.

[ComicConnoisseur]

8 minutes ago, NewEnglandGothic said:

Have you seen this 2 1/2 hour documentary yet?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Dreams

I bought the Star Wars: Special Edition DVD set a yard sale two years ago, just for that for about $3.

It was brilliant!

Personally note: safe driving in out Hoth-like system today.

Haven't seen it yet but will check it out. 

Yeah, we are getting that blizzard today. Are you and NH getting it?

I will drive safe. Just hope the power doesn't go out because of high winds expected.

 

[NewEnglandGothic]

6 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Haven't seen it yet but will check it out. 

Yeah, we are getting that blizzard today. Are you and NH getting it?

I will drive safe. Just hope the power doesn't go out because of high winds expected.

 

I wasn't expecting much from this feature-length documentary, but they managed to keep surprising you with various behind=the-scenes. 

My section of the woods will only get 10 inches of white stuff.

I took a vacation day to prep the generator.  Most likely power will be out when the winds increase.

[Gatsby77]

11 hours ago, zhamlau said:

The fact that the movie is more comparable to RO than TFA is a HUGE PROBLEM for Disney.

Long and short, Disney isn't caring about the fact it broke a billion, it had no chance NOT to with the 500 million they spent (advertising and production estimates) making it. What Disney will see is that Rian Johnson managed to make a movie so flawed from a basic storytelling perspective to the fact that 1/2 of the fans literally felt cheated and insulted, that they managed to LOSE 200 million versus what TFA did.

He had everything going for him, great lead in (TFA) and a professional reviewers in pocket knowing they had to be kind to this movie for multiple reasons. They had one of the strongest domestic economies in our countries history with more disposable income then ever before, and Strong word of mouth support and intrigue from fans before it debuted....and Johnson so blew it this film is potentially going to earn 400 million dollars less than TFA and there is no earthly reason why except how badly he messed up and how it killed repeat viewing and word of mouth endorsements bringing in casual fans.

 

Due respect, but this isn't true.

As I posted a page or so back, The Last Jedi is performing exactly in line with Empire Strikes Back and Attack of the Clones at ~70% of the business of Star Wars and Episode 1, respectively.

The first chapter of all three of these trilogies is literally a once-in-a-generation event.

Even more so with The Force Awakens, which was not only the first new Star Wars movie in 12 years but also brought back the main original cast for the first time in more than 30 years.

And again -- The Last Jedi's current rank of # 6 on the all-time domestic chart doesn't matter -- it's a false metric.

What matters is its inflation-adjusted ranking of (currently) # 58 -- ahead of West Side Story, Superman, The Two Towers, Dark Knight Rises, Back to the Future, and Attack of the Clones.

By week's end it will have passed Rogue One, Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith in real terms, as well as Batman, Blazing Saddles and even Bambi.

 

And if you truly think that Disney is so dissatisfied with this film's performance that Rian Johnson will be fired from his next trilogy (you know, like Disney fired Josh Trank and Lord & Miller from Solo and then Gareth Edwards from Episode 9), I'll bet you $100 that he stays.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Gatsby77

[valiantman]

18 hours ago, Rip said:

19 hours ago, valiantman said:

Are we saying that Boba Fett didn't use hyperspace tracking to follow the Millenium Falcon?

Yes remember he couldn't go to Hyperspace, it was basicly broken, up until the end of the movie. 

Has anyone seen these movies?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9exuBFKQOlU

Oh, that's right.  I'm a little fuzzy on ESB because I spend half the movie vomiting in the bathroom after the Luke-Stuffed-In-TaunTaun-Guts scene. 

[Bosco685]

LOGAN Told Luke Skywalker’s Story Better Than THE LAST JEDI

Quote

When the story of Luke Skywalker came to its conclusion in Star Wars: The Last Jedi, there was both a disturbance in the Force and a familiar echo for fans of the Wolverine. If you felt a nagging sense of deja vu by the time Luke expended all of his Force powers in his final confrontation with Kylo Ren, it’s because we have already seen an older incarnation of a beloved hero called back to action to make his greatest sacrifice just this past year in Logan.

 

AGING HEROES IN EXILE

Logan is made of sterner stuff than Luke, and that’s not just meaning his failing healing factor and the adamantium coating his bones. Luke’s story is of a hero wallowing in self-blame and defeat. Logan, who has lived much longer and faced far more horrors in his life, at least continued to struggle to do right by someone he cares for. It was much more difficult to rouse Luke to do the right thing than it was to get Logan to act like the hero he truly is.

 

YOUNG WOMEN IN NEED WHO ARE JUST LIKE THEM

Both Laura and Rey spent very short amounts of time with the aging heroes whose help they required. Laura got much more effort and sacrifice out of Logan, who gave everything he had to travel with her and keep her safe. Logan literally died trying to protect Laura. It’s hard to see how Rey could regard the time she personally spent with Luke as anything more than a letdown despite the handful of lessons in the Force Luke offered her. That’s not to undermine his sacrifice, but the enduring message is a more complex one.

 

COPING WITH THEIR LEGENDS

In both cases, the younger generation, especially Laura and Rey, believed in the legends. When called upon to live up to their own idealized heroic versions of themselves, Luke and Logan both rose to the occasion in their own ways. Logan was a personal inspiration to a small handful of mutants who must now survive in a world that hate, fears, and hunts them. The legend of Luke Skywalker, however, has incalculable power in the galaxy, and Luke’s final stand on Crait gave a new hope to the Rebellion. Luke gifted the Rebels the spark they needed to light the fire that will burn the First Order down. No matter the failings of the flesh and blood man, Skywalker’s legend endures across the galaxy and continues to inspire the young to fight against tyranny.

 

THE FINAL SACRIFICES

While no one shed tears for Luke on screen despite both Leia and Rey sensing through the Force that Luke was gone, Logan’s death and all that it meant was an emotionally devastating denouement that brought tears to both the characters on screen and to the audience watching in theaters. Mark Hamill got to portray Luke’s death – fittingly watching twin suns – after 40 years of playing the last Jedi, but Luke also has the luxury of being able to reappear as a Force Ghost in Star Wars: Episode outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed Logan was the definitive end of Hugh Jackman’s 17 year run as the Wolverine and it is a high water mark for the superhero movie genre.

 

[NewEnglandGothic]

On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 2:11 PM, comix4fun said:

Oh, goodness, that was made mention of from the very beginning...from when Star Wars was first released. Lucas has always mentioned "Hidden Fortress", Flash Gordon Serials, another Kurosawa film Derso Uzala contributed a couple of scenes to Star Wars almost exactly. Then there are all the things taken directly from literature, mythology and various religious beliefs. 

Maybe it was mentioned so much in the 70's and 80's people discussing the films today assume everyone already knows how much was derivative and borrowed and cobbled together from all of Lucas' other influences. 

Yeah, it's been on my radar myself since I read about it in Leonard Maltin's or Roger Ebert's movie guide in the late 80's.

I just been excited to having the opportunity to go over the older movies, most of them restored from a 35 mm print and just wanted to point one out to a boardie who might have put it aside too.  I actually added "The Hidden Fortress" to my Star Wars home video section.

[comix4fun]

3 minutes ago, NewEnglandGothic said:

Yeah, it's been on my radar myself since I read about it in Leonard Maltin's or Roger Ebert's movie guide in the late 80's.

I just been excited to having the opportunity to go over the older movies, most of them restored from a 35 mm print and just wanted to point one out to a boardie who might have put it aside too.  I actually added "The Hidden Fortress" to my Star Wars home video section.

And when you watch the original trilogy, especially Star Wars, it really works as a love letter from Lucas to all of his influences and childhood heroes. It's a nice additional layer. 

[Gatsby77]

It's funny. 

My Japanese is decent.

I've seen 10 of Kurosawa's films and even wrote an undergraduate term paper on Throne of Blood, but I've never seen The Hidden Fortress.

[NewEnglandGothic]

9 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

It's funny. 

My Japanese is decent.

I've seen 10 of Kurosawa's films and even wrote an undergraduate term paper on Throne of Blood, but I've never seen The Hidden Fortress.

 

I've only seen his Rashomon before this, but I bought The Seven Samurai right after.  Next time Barnes & Noble's has a 50% off Criterion sale, I'm buying more.  There's something so relevant and timeless to his works that I like.

[comix4fun]

7 minutes ago, NewEnglandGothic said:

 

I've only seen his Rashomon before this, but I bought The Seven Samurai right after.  Next time Barnes & Noble's has a 50% off Criterion sale, I'm buying more.  There's something so relevant and timeless to his works that I like.

And that's the MOST borrowed from movie in Hollywood in the last 15-20 years. 

[zhamlau]

2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

13 hours ago, zhamlau said:

The fact that the movie is more comparable to RO than TFA is a HUGE PROBLEM for Disney.

Long and short, Disney isn't caring about the fact it broke a billion, it had no chance NOT to with the 500 million they spent (advertising and production estimates) making it. What Disney will see is that Rian Johnson managed to make a movie so flawed from a basic storytelling perspective to the fact that 1/2 of the fans literally felt cheated and insulted, that they managed to LOSE 200 million versus what TFA did.

He had everything going for him, great lead in (TFA) and a professional reviewers in pocket knowing they had to be kind to this movie for multiple reasons. They had one of the strongest domestic economies in our countries history with more disposable income then ever before, and Strong word of mouth support and intrigue from fans before it debuted....and Johnson so blew it this film is potentially going to earn 400 million dollars less than TFA and there is no earthly reason why except how badly he messed up and how it killed repeat viewing and word of mouth endorsements bringing in casual fans.

 

Due respect, but this isn't true.

As I posted a page or so back, The Last Jedi is performing exactly in line with Empire Strikes Back and Attack of the Clones at ~70% of the business of Star Wars and Episode 1, respectively.

The first chapter of all three of these trilogies is literally a once-in-a-generation event.

Even more so with The Force Awakens, which was not only the first new Star Wars movie in 12 years but also brought back the main original cast for the first time in more than 30 years.

And again -- The Last Jedi's current rank of # 6 on the all-time domestic chart doesn't matter -- it's a false metric.

What matters is its inflation-adjusted ranking of (currently) # 58 -- ahead of West Side Story, Superman, The Two Towers, Dark Knight Rises, Back to the Future, and Attack of the Clones.

By week's end it will have passed Rogue One, Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith in real terms, as well as Batman, Blazing Saddles and even Bambi.

 

And if you truly think that Disney is so dissatisfied with this film's performance that Rian Johnson will be fired from his next trilogy (you know, like Disney fired Josh Trank and Lord & Miller from Solo and then Gareth Edwards from Episode 9), I'll bet you $100 that he stays.

Fair enough, but it isnt true.

Keeping it simple not comparing unlike to unlike. ANH Stayed in the theater for 52 weeks straight, ESB was only in the theaters for 12 weeks. It was a different strategy that lead to the huge overall number in ANH. ESB they wanted to curtail it to a normal 3 month window. When you compare each at the 12 week part, ESB vastly outperforms ANH. ANH has 109 million over its first 12 weeks. ESB had 141 over its first 12 weeks. That ANH was allowed to keep running and running is why it out-peforms long term. If they cut it off at the same date it would have done well under ESB.

Im a fan of "like for like" arguing. I want to see a good example and a bad example of the same era films and compare them. Since we have only had 2 weeks of TJL I like to compare that.

 

That money counts, Disney left it on the table. Its weekly drop off from week 1 to week 2 for TLJ was something like 33% more. Thats word of mouth, thats fans telling other fans "this film sucks". Infinitely better domestic economy, strong lead in and teaser at end of TFA to pique fan interests, and the return of Luke Skywalker!!!!....and with all that, the movie is doing almost 200 million less in the first 2 weeks alone.

I mean, think about this. Do you think Disney wants to have its movies supporters make arguments and justify why the film did poorly compared to its lead in? That they want to see an actual rotten fan review much worse than even AOTC the previous worst film in the saga?  Disney basically bought the Patriots, and then proceeded to fire Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. We can spin it how we want, but the film no where near capitalized on its potential earning and i feel will hurt future sales.

 

 

 

 

 

[Gatsby77]

Yojimbo's also a must-see. Like The Seven Samurai it's had two American remakes:

Fistful of Dollars -- the 1964 Clint Eastwood spaghetti western; and

Last Man Standing -- the 1996 Bruce Willis film that transplants the setting to 1920s gangters.

[paperheart]

3 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Due respect, but this isn't true.

As I posted a page or so back, The Last Jedi is performing exactly in line with Empire Strikes Back and Attack of the Clones at ~70% of the business of Star Wars and Episode 1, respectively.

The first chapter of all three of these trilogies is literally a once-in-a-generation event.

Even more so with The Force Awakens, which was not only the first new Star Wars movie in 12 years but also brought back the main original cast for the first time in more than 30 years.

And again -- The Last Jedi's current rank of # 6 on the all-time domestic chart doesn't matter -- it's a false metric.

What matters is its inflation-adjusted ranking of (currently) # 58 -- ahead of West Side Story, Superman, The Two Towers, Dark Knight Rises, Back to the Future, and Attack of the Clones.

By week's end it will have passed Rogue One, Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith in real terms, as well as Batman, Blazing Saddles and even Bambi.

 

And if you truly think that Disney is so dissatisfied with this film's performance that Rian Johnson will be fired from his next trilogy (you know, like Disney fired Josh Trank and Lord & Miller from Solo and then Gareth Edwards from Episode 9), I'll bet you $100 that he stays.

 

[Gatsby77]

20 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

Fair enough, but it isnt true.

Keeping it simple not comparing unlike to unlike. ANH Stayed in the theater for 52 weeks straight, ESB was only in the theaters for 12 weeks. It was a different strategy that lead to the huge overall number in ANH. ESB they wanted to curtail it to a normal 3 month window. When you compare each at the 12 week part, ESB vastly outperforms ANH. ANH has 109 million over its first 12 weeks. ESB had 141 over its first 12 weeks. That ANH was allowed to keep running and running is why it out-peforms long term. If they cut it off at the same date it would have done well under ESB.

Im a fan of "like for like" arguing. I want to see a good example and a bad example of the same era films and compare them. Since we have only had 2 weeks of TJL I like to compare that.

 

That money counts, Disney left it on the table. Its weekly drop off from week 1 to week 2 for TLJ was something like 33% more. Thats word of mouth, thats fans telling other fans "this film sucks". Infinitely better domestic economy, strong lead in and teaser at end of TFA to pique fan interests, and the return of Luke Skywalker!!!!....and with all that, the movie is doing almost 200 million less in the first 2 weeks alone.

I mean, think about this. Do you think Disney wants to have its movies supporters make arguments and justify why the film did poorly compared to its lead in? That they want to see an actual rotten fan review much worse than even AOTC the previous worst film in the saga?  Disney basically bought the Patriots, and then proceeded to fire Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. We can spin it how we want, but the film no where near capitalized on its potential earning and i feel will hurt future sales.

The second week drop-off isn't nearly as bad as you characterize it because it rebounded in week 3.

We see this _especially_ in comparing the second to third weekends

The second weekend fall of 68% for TLJ (vs. just 40% for TFA) is mostly attributable to Christmas Eve falling on a Sunday this year. It rebounded on Christmas Monday (as expected), meaning it fell just 55% over the 4-day frame.

More importantly, it rebounded in the third weekend, falling just 27% (vs. TFA's falling 40%). And again, it was hurt slightly by New Year's Eve being that Sunday, and made up more ground on Monday.

This shows in its daily progress as well -- it lost ground to films like Jurassic World on a day-to-day comparative basis in Week 2, only to stomp Jurassic World and others day-to-day in Week 3.

 

But the bigger picture is this -- and relates to the portion I bolded.

With this film, Disney laid the necessary groundwork with this film to sever ties to the Skywalker family -- thus enabling them to build any number of other stories in other trilogies and one-off projects for decades to come.

Far from "hurting future sales," I think they smartly sacrificed repeat sales for this film from a small portion of 40-something die-hard fans -- in aid of much stronger sales on a great number of future films over the long-term.

By going the unexpected (but necessary) route -- Disney ripped off the band-aid, and set themselves up to evolve as Star Trek did -- enabling how many more series with entirely different casts over the years? Five (so far)?

Who cares about (say) a $250 million hit on Episode 8 if it directly enables Episodes 10-18 to each be solid $800 million films, to say nothing of the various "Star Wars Story" one-offs in between?

 

[Gatsby77]

51 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

Im a fan of "like for like" arguing. I want to see a good example and a bad example of the same era films and compare them.

You want to see a good example and a bad example of same-era films?

Last Jedi is the second-fastest film to $500 million domestic ever, on a short list of only nine films to hit that mark.

The fact that it's already # 6 on the all-time chart in less than three weeks speaks volumes.

It will easily best The Dark Knight and The Avengers domestically, and will likely surpass Jurassic World as well.

As Scott Forbes put it, in (non-inflation-adjusted terms) it's on track to beat every other movie ever that was not called The Force Awakens or directed by James Cameron.

Bad example?

Justice League.

What was billed as DC's Avengers instead made less in its entire domestic run than The Last Jedi made in four days.