When does a "great deal" become "screwing over" someone?

[micmack]

 

If the book had already sold then it would have been even worse form to PM you and tell you about the underpriced book.

 

I was inferring that no one pm'd me ahead of time to let me know of my mistake. Like this thread is suggesting.

 

It was purchase first mentality.

[vaillant]

this thread is going to turn into a lot of butthurt eventually

 

I try and pay as fair as possible when i find a book like that.

I couldn’t agree with Hector more here.

 

But my problem would be finding a Batman Adventures #12 or a New Mutants #98 in Italy (it hasn’t happened so far).

Aside from the fact that it would probably be in VGFN condition at best, I would have problems in explaining the seller it’s not a $2 book, but I would almost surely tell him it’s quite worthy, and offer adequately.

The temptation of not telling, however, is always there, but it depends on other factors as well. If the seller is a known shark, I have no problem in picking it and not tell him anything. :shrug:

[Red84]

I once had an elderly card dealer offer me a Hulk 181 for $75. I politely told him it was worth more. After research, he priced it at market value and was not pleased when I asked for a discount. I reminded him I could have just said "sure" and bought it for $75. He grudgingly relented.

 

A month ago I told an eBay seller that he had sold two rare books at a buy it now for a lot less than they were worth. I told him I would pay triple that for any more he had. He agreed to sell me one at the price I offered as a thank you. Then he put it up for auction. Then he ignored my emails.

 

This past week I BINed an ASM 129 in a lot with bad pics. The seller said his son listed it by mistake, so I let him out of the transaction provided he would give me first shot. He said he would, then promptly listed it on eBay. When I asked him about what happened to giving me first shot, he said he would hold it for my offer. Then he immediately sold it to someone else.

 

These stories are not rare, and they make me think twice before telling a shop they just put a $150 book in the fifty cent bin. My line is this. If someone should know better, it's not my job to tell them how to do theirs. If they shouldn't (elderly, widow, kid, generally clueless) I will work something else out.

 

My favorite is on American Pickers the seller will offer something for $20; Mike and Frank will tell them it's worth $200 and then offer $100. Then the seller will ask for $150 even though they were ready to sell it for $20.

 

If someone asks for the value, don't lie, but it's not your job to educate every seller.

[AmazingSaul]

Hmm...I have to say, sellers have to do their research. I have only encountered one instance a seller sold me a book for really cheap. I was at an Antique store and they had a BA Key book for pretty cheap...I paid half of its real worth. The seller didn't care. He priced the book he "felt" was good. I am assuming he believed it would never sell otherwise. Sorry, but the internet exists now days...You can always find prices online.

[Artboy99]

If the book has a price on it I will pay it. It goes both ways also as I sold a Hulk 271 for a dollar a few years ago when it had "popped".

[G.A.tor]

I guess karma can flow both ways.

 

As an example, I bought an X-Men 19 off ebay and was sent an ASM1 by mistake. I sent it back. A year later I found a BA12 at an antique store for $2 and I bought it with a "thank you" as I was handed the bag.

 

It FELT wrong for me to keep the ASM1 even though it was completely within my legal right to keep it. But it didn't FEEL wrong to buy a $200 book for $2 simply because the seller didn't know what they had. I don't know what the difference is though - but I sure know I FELT different about each of those two cases.

 

So the question becomes one of where do you draw the line?

 

IOW, am I morally obligated to inform every seller whenever I find a dollar-bin book that is worth more than $1?

 

 

 

I don't know that you have a legal right to keep something sent to you in error anymore than you have a legal right to money accidentally deposited in your account. That's way different than buying something cheap.

 

Here's the better ethical dilemma. You buy a vase at yard sale for $5 you know is worth a couple thousand at auction vs. you buy a vase at a yard sale for $5 because you like it, and when you get it home you find there is an antique diamond ring worth a couple thousand in the bottom.

1. Anything delivered to you by US mail is legally yours.

 

2. Your dilemma is very different. Buying what I believe to be a cheap vase only to find a diamond ring inside would make me very uncomfortable because I didn't know the ring was in it when I bought it. I would probably return it. But... me knowing the value of an expensive vase and seeing it on sale for $5 would probably lead me to buy the vase and consider it a "great deal" for me.

 

ymmv.

 

 

 

#1 applies to unordered merchandise. Shipping errors (honest mistakes) have been proven to not necessarily be the recipients as supported by numerous judgements in cases. Just a FYI. The courts have ruled the intent of the law was to protect consumers from companies that would send unsolicited merchandise and then subsequently try to bill/be paid for it.

[Ares]

Even those with knowledge of the field can't be on top of everything. If a dealer sells an obscure rare copper age book out of the dollar box that turns out to be worth a couple grand, is that any different from picking up a SA Marvel key at the same discount at a yard sale?

 

Yes it is..

A dealer is in the comics business. If he cannot price his product properly he needs a better line of

business.

A person selling in a yard sale might not be educated and could be selling their child's books after child passed away

[Artboy99]

I can also add under graded to this discussion. A book is clearly an 8.0 but is priced at VG.

[CKB]

I once had an elderly card dealer offer me a Hulk 181 for $75. I politely told him it was worth more. After research, he priced it at market value and was not pleased when I asked for a discount. I reminded him I could have just said "sure" and bought it for $75. He grudgingly relented.

 

A month ago I told an eBay seller that he had sold two rare books at a buy it now for a lot less than they were worth. I told him I would pay triple that for any more he had. He agreed to sell me one at the price I offered as a thank you. Then he put it up for auction. Then he ignored my emails.

 

This past week I BINed an ASM 129 in a lot with bad pics. The seller said his son listed it by mistake, so I let him out of the transaction provided he would give me first shot. He said he would, then promptly listed it on eBay. When I asked him about what happened to giving me first shot, he said he would hold it for my offer. Then he immediately sold it to someone else.

 

These stories are not rare, and they make me think twice before telling a shop they just put a $150 book in the fifty cent bin. My line is this. If someone should know better, it's not my job to tell them how to do theirs. If they shouldn't (elderly, widow, kid, generally clueless) I will work something else out.

 

Yes but you are acting ethically in all those cases, which is to be commended. Unfortunately real world greed exists and is rampant. Many people don't like knowing they were foolish, and the person bringing the news is an easy target.

 

To balance these forces, go ahead and buy these items at the offered price and make up for it after the fact, even anonymously if necessary. It's harder to actually go through with making it right after the fact, we are all human, but it can be more personally rewarding.

 

 

[entalmighty1]

Last winter a coworker informed me that a friend of theirs was having a "comic garage sale." She decided to let me know due to the amount of books I get shipped to the office. I got his contact info, and he agreed to let me check out what he was selling before he put it on the market.

 

I got there and looked through about 20 long boxes of moderns, and found several new hot books, including a BA 12. He had them all priced at $1.00 each. I couldn't possibly care less about modern stuff, but I told him what he should pull out and expect more on, and asked if he had any older books he was looking to get rid of.

 

He thanked me, pulled out a box of his keeper Silver Age stuff that had belonged to his father, and let me pick about 30 books from him at about 50% off guide value, and he was VERY reasonable with his bulk pricing too.

 

Sometimes not being a hard*** works out for you, sometimes it doesn't. Just wanted to paint a picture from the other side of the karmic aisle.

[Doktor]

Maybe I'm a bit of a Richard (probably), but if someone prices something at a price that is a killer deal for me, I'll buy it & thank whatever cosmic force gave me the opportunity to get a good deal. My assumption when buying anything is that the price agreed upon by me (buyer) and them (seller) are something we're both satisfied with. If the price is more than I want to pay, I don't buy. If it's less than I want to pay, I buy. Simple as that. It's not my job to price things for sellers too lazy to figure them out for themselves. I don't care if it's an antique store, a flea market, a yard sale, craigslist, a dealer or half price books. If you're going to be selling things, know the market value for the things you're selling. And if you don't, find a new market.

[JayT]

I guess I can understand some of the replies above if what comics I had were how I kept score and was a significant element in how I identify as a person. I guess your financial situation would also shade an answer. When I was a kid (or even a young adult - took me some time !) with nothing and not having direction and something fell in my lap? Sure, no problem and I wouldn't write it off as all being young, dumb, and thoughtless because all of us have a little "do you" in us, especially if we have families. I guess for me I try to think about if what I would do is what I'd want to tell my kid to do.

 

There's also this thought that what feels better going to sleep on, knowing you did something solid or having an extra money in my account. I know there was a time where the latter was the obvious answer for me but I've found that once comfortable, at least for me, just being a good dude has more merit. I have that money, I'm not going hungry taking advantage of a great deal. I'm not losing a house, and if I did I have more to go to.

 

I guess there is scale though. If somebody is selling a $20 book for $5 that doesn't bother me, but I'd have a real problem thinking I got something for what might be for them a life changing amount of $. We all sit here at the CGC boards spending a lot of money on mostly irrelevant items, and people move books that for some would knock out a mortgage.

 

I totally understand why some think the seller has responsibility and I don't knock anyone who is out for themselves 100%, been there, but I guess I try to put myself in a situatation where even smart people can make a mistake, and if it happened to me, while I guess I'd be stupid to expect someone to make it right (as seen by most replies here), I'd like to think it was possible.

 

If I miss out on an Amazing Fantasy #1 for a buck score, I will be okay. Could I find things to do with that money? Sure, anybody could, that's easy.

 

That said, this isn't my business, and I what comics I have, had, or what I got them for has zero do with how I live or value myself.

[jaeldubyoo]

From what I see here, we all practice a bit of "situational ethics." A lot have said it depends on the situation. Much depends on the circumstances, rather than absolute rules.

 

"Situational ethics, or situation ethics, takes into account the particular context of an act when evaluating it ethically, rather than judging it according to absolute moral standards."

[Wally's Comics]

The best thing about life is that it isn't over until it's over...

 

I try to do the right thing and correct myself when I feel I'm in the wrong.

 

My extreme ethics might leave me broker than a south paw monkey, but I have a clean/clear conscience.

 

A lot of folks are forgetting that it may not be just a "monetary" thing...

 

My principle is that I would rather be poor boy with good health than be sick and rich.

 

 

Money can only go so far and being good to your fellow man has much more benefit than any possession.

 

 

[the blob]

Karma is a person_without_enough_empathy

 

that's all I have to say

Maybe the seller has bad karma and I have good karma so that's why it happened.

 

bingo.

 

if you make a million off your $1 purchase you can always decide later to gift something to the person who sold it to cheap.

 

a different example would be if someone i know tells someone "hey, blob knows comics, maybe he can tell you what those comics from your grandpa's WW II locker are worth?" ...me telling them they're worth $1 and liberating them would result in lightening bolts from the karma gods.

[youmechooz]

This business is as much about relationships as it is about hard work.

 

 

I agree and it makes sense if you are in the BUSINESS.

Relationships with dealers, not collectors selling books. Pay collectors pennies, pay dealers fair.

I know a few big dealers that pay mess. like really terrible. Doesn't hurt them in the least. Money is money.

[jcjames]

I guess karma can flow both ways.

 

As an example, I bought an X-Men 19 off ebay and was sent an ASM1 by mistake. I sent it back. A year later I found a BA12 at an antique store for $2 and I bought it with a "thank you" as I was handed the bag.

 

It FELT wrong for me to keep the ASM1 even though it was completely within my legal right to keep it. But it didn't FEEL wrong to buy a $200 book for $2 simply because the seller didn't know what they had. I don't know what the difference is though - but I sure know I FELT different about each of those two cases.

 

So the question becomes one of where do you draw the line?

 

IOW, am I morally obligated to inform every seller whenever I find a dollar-bin book that is worth more than $1?

 

 

 

I don't know that you have a legal right to keep something sent to you in error anymore than you have a legal right to money accidentally deposited in your account. That's way different than buying something cheap.

 

Here's the better ethical dilemma. You buy a vase at yard sale for $5 you know is worth a couple thousand at auction vs. you buy a vase at a yard sale for $5 because you like it, and when you get it home you find there is an antique diamond ring worth a couple thousand in the bottom.

1. Anything delivered to you by US mail is legally yours.

 

2. Your dilemma is very different. Buying what I believe to be a cheap vase only to find a diamond ring inside would make me very uncomfortable because I didn't know the ring was in it when I bought it. I would probably return it. But... me knowing the value of an expensive vase and seeing it on sale for $5 would probably lead me to buy the vase and consider it a "great deal" for me.

 

ymmv.

 

 

 

#1 applies to unordered merchandise. Shipping errors (honest mistakes) have been proven to not necessarily be the recipients as supported by numerous judgements in cases. Just a FYI. The courts have ruled the intent of the law was to protect consumers from companies that would send unsolicited merchandise and then subsequently try to bill/be paid for it.

 

I did not order the ASM1 - that was sent to me unsolicited.

 

The seller (and another trusted LCS) actually said I was within my legal rights to keep it AND to still request they send me my X-Men 19 that I ordered or that they give me a full refund. But the seller was VERY grateful to me for returning it and I eventually did get my XM19.

 

Just saying what I was told by a few people who ship books every day for a living.

 

 

 

ETA: Unordered Merchandise

 

 

 

 

[Meeklo]

What about a LCS buying comics from a customer?

 

I was at a LCS here in Austin (some say the most popular LCS in Austin) and I over heard the manager make an offer to a patron for $20 on a ASM #129. The patron excepted. I managed to talk to the patron and told him what he had and he went back to speak with the manager. I heard that the manager had that comic up on the wall for $800 the next day.

 

Granted, the patron did not know what he had...clearly...and the manager picked up on that and totally took advantage of him.

 

This comic shop also was giving away those "free" Detective Comics 27 anniversary issues "with any purchase" instead of giving them away without purchase like they were supposed to.

 

I refuse to shop there anymore!

[RockMyAmadeus]

What is "greed"....?

 

[IntoAnother]

What about a LCS buying comics from a customer?

 

I was at a LCS here in Austin (some say the most popular LCS in Austin) and I over heard the manager make an offer to a patron for $20 on a ASM #129. The patron excepted. I managed to talk to the patron and told him what he had and he went back to speak with the manager. I heard that the manager had that comic up on the wall for $800 the next day.

 

Granted, the patron did not know what he had...clearly...and the manager picked up on that and totally took advantage of him.

 

This comic shop also was giving away those "free" Detective Comics 27 anniversary issues "with any purchase" instead of giving them away without purchase like they were supposed to.

 

I refuse to shop there anymore!

 

Was it Austin Books and Comics?