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Why don't dealers have all high-value comics graded?

Started by mlovest,

80 posts in this topic

the blob

the blob

Posted
Posted

I agree on slabbing $500++ books. It's too much of a chance with restoration. But I can see why dealers won't do it all the time. A stack of books can cost a mortgage payment to have graded.

 

What still perturbs me is that market expectation about a slab on a book that guides for $100-$150 in let's say VF/NM or VF+. most likely to not receive a premium above guide even in the slab. but it's a book that pre-CGC, with a big enough scan or live at a show, could have sold for 75-85% of guide (my old LCS never had any SA above a VF because it would instantly sell when he priced it at 85% of guide for his regulars ... and this was in 1998, when the vintage market was having problems).

 

And you still may not even get guide for a book like this, even after plunking down $30 for a slab.

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sfilosa

sfilosa

Posted
Posted

Would you take my right arm as trade for that TTA #27?

Because I would be willing to part with it for that book.

 

 

That's a very tough book to get.

 

I'm looking for an 8.0 or better and they are NEVER Available.

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the blob

the blob

Posted
Posted

i suppose the bigger dealers have less of an excuse given that they probably have enough books in given grades to take advantage of pre-screening. but it's still a wait to get your stuff back. and while you're waiting to amass 50 potential SA 9.6ses you might as well try to sell them raw.

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
I have said this before and I will say it again. Not everyone buys CGC books.

 

100 books at a minimum cost $2500 + shipping and are gone 4-5 months. Multiple that 10 X and you are at $25,000 + cash flow is greatly affected.

 

You have to have the sales in order to support the submissions. Therre are a lot of dealers that are one deal away from being homeless. Do you really think they can all afford to have everything graded?

 

And can I add to Bob's very valid points that, certainly here in the UK, the majority of buyers will not touch a CGC graded book with a ten foot pole. Yes, a number of them collect really high grade books, but want them raw. I have to keep a stock of both CGC and unslabbed books in high grade to satisfy demand for both.

 

And if you think that's weird, you don't want to know how many people will reluctantly buy CGC books, only to crack them open as soon as they get hold of them.

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blazingbob

blazingbob

Posted
Posted

And there is nothing wrong with somebody buying a CGC book and cracking it out. My only suggestion is that they keep the label in the back of the mylar. Why you ask? Because nothing sends up more red flags than finding inserts in a raw book. Is it restored (I've seen a restored book with no notation of color touch) or worse you ask "What was it graded" and wait for the dance to begin.

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shrunkenhead

shrunkenhead

Posted
Posted
And there is nothing wrong with somebody buying a CGC book and cracking it out.

 

I do this with every non-GA book I buy that slabs less than 9.4 (and sometimes I uncork those, too). But I do keep all the labels.

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sfilosa

sfilosa

Posted
Posted

"the majority of buyers will not touch a CGC graded book with a ten foot pole"

 

why? or is that they're just not willing to pay anything extra for the slab?

 

 

I'm not sure I believe that statement, unless you are talking low dollar books. Sure, why pay $30 for a modern 9.6, when there's probably a nice HG copy in the $1 box.

 

But show me a collector who would rather pay $1,000 for a VF raw key then pay $1,075 for the same book in CGC 8.0. I'll take the sure thing any day, and I'm sure most collector would (regardless of where they live).

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sfilosa

sfilosa

Posted
Posted

from a reputable dealer? that I'm familiar with?

 

I'll take the raw VF book for $1k almost always over the slabbed.

 

 

 

Name me a reputable dealer that can SPOT RESTORATION all the time?

 

Because I don't know one. Even if they are very good, do you really want to take a chance that they miss it, and five years down the road you get the book graded and it has a centerfold reinforced and your book is worth 33% of what you bought it for?

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Foolkiller

Foolkiller

Posted
Posted

First of all, it's unlikely I'm getting the book graded. Second, I'm willing to say that the odds of that book being restored and unable to be spotted are relatively low, though certainly a possiblity. Third, if I buy it from a dealer I've done a lot of transactions with, I'm confident he'll take it back.

 

For example, if I buy a book from Bob Storms that's a raw VF and was an expensive purchase, and it comes back restored, I have every confidence that, assuming I could document that it was the same book, Bob would certainly make good in some form of restitution.

 

Since CGC does not catch resto 100% of the time, I can't use them as the only barometer. Personally, I don't see a need to always buy the book in a slab, nor do I necessarily certify that buying a book in a slab is 'always' the most prudent thing to do given a whole host of factors, most notably, the problems concerning slab damage. That said, if I was buying a book with the hopes of making money on it down the road, or being able to recoup most, if not all of my money, then I might put more of an emphasis on a slab simply as a means for liquidity. Otherwise, I enjoy cracking the slab, saving the label (sometimes, others not) and buying raw.

 

from a reputable dealer? that I'm familiar with?

 

I'll take the raw VF book for $1k almost always over the slabbed.

 

 

 

Name me a reputable dealer that can SPOT RESTORATION all the time?

 

Because I don't know one. Even if they are very good, do you really want to take a chance that they miss it, and five years down the road you get the book graded and it has a centerfold reinforced and your book is worth 33% of what you bought it for?

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the blob

the blob

Posted
Posted

centerfold reinforcement reduces value by 67%?

 

893scratchchin-thumb.gifmm, one of these days CGC is probably going to need to come up with a more sophisticated system of restoration analysis, perhaps giving the level of resto a number that can be used to discount a price with

 

and then people can debate over whether the resto number is appropriate... yipee, two different numbers from CGC to moan and groan about!

 

What does a loose centerfold knock a book in otherwise "Fine" down to or does CGC give that some sort of qualified" grade?

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mlovest

mlovest

Posted
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Posted

Bob,

 

You state the obvious reasons. Tying up so much capital has got to be tough. I wonder if CGC has considered partial payments up font versus the entire amount. They could charge 25% when the comics arrive and the then charge the rest just before they send the comics back. Many businesses do this for trusted customers. It would probably increase their business. Of course, how much more business can CGC handle given they already take so long to grade!

 

V/R,

Mike

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sterlingcomics

sterlingcomics

Posted
Posted
Hey sterling give me the two names of the dealers who grade on target, because i've bought from almost all the online dealers, and they all seem to overgrade the high end of the scale by one or two points. 9.8 = 9.4 and 9.6 = 9.2...

 

To qualify my statement:

 

I've basically found that I don't trust anyone's grade past 9.4 unless I'm there in person. Assume one or two grade ticks variance when determining your price for raw. That equalizes the scenario to be more fair. This unfortunately means to me that I won't buy anything raw past 9.4 because the risk is too high.

 

I've found variances with almost all dealers. One in particular has been spot on, but he charges way more than other dealers.

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tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted
For example, if I buy a book from Bob Storms that's a raw VF and was an expensive purchase, and it comes back restored, I have every confidence that, assuming I could document that it was the same book, Bob would certainly make good in some form of restitution.

Is this true if you don't slab until 5 years after you bought it? 10 years?

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