PhilipB2k17 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, comix4fun said: It's not the first sale, from the artist and at these higher than expected price points, that we should be looking to if we want to see how the "market" values and absorbs these pieces into a stream of commerce like other pieces with multiple sales and data points through public and private sales and auctions. It's the subsequent movement of these pieces which will tell you if the market as it may be perceived due to a few eye opening sale numbers today is real or illusory. Anything is possible, sure, but looking to any of a handful of one to one sales, perhaps to a small pool, is far less helpful in determining broader market value and acceptance of those values the way that public secondary or tertiary movement in a sale or auction setting will. It's the difference between the price that ONE person is willing to pay and the price that MANY people are willing to pay, or at least come close to. The first and second under-bidder theory is what I call it. Sure there's one buyer at $50k. Does that mean there's another buyer at $49k, or three or four buyers at $40-45k? We don't know that yet because Capullo was firm and only one buyer met his number. Well, in this very thread there was one other buyer who offered 30K for that same cover last year. But he was rebuffed. So, we know of at least two collectors willing to pay at least $30k for it. Then again...maybe it was the same dude! no one is naming names (It's an open secret who bought it, and apparently it is Voldemort, or He Who Must Not Be Named. Not that I even know who this person is). Now that it's sold for 50K (or thereabouts, maybe it was more because we don't now the final sales number!), you are starting to see a bit of a market developing for the top end Capullo pieces. I get what you're saying about the secondary market. But, clearly there were enough buyers of the panel and splash pages out there to indicate that even at those price points, the good stuff would sell. Edited September 18, 2017 by PhilipB2k17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 minute ago, rocket1312 said: In this case I think there was literally only one person who was willing and able to pay even close to the asking price for this cover. Capullo seemingly priced it as high as he did because he DID NOT want to sell it. The buyer more or less called his bluff and even then (if it's who we think it is), was turned away multiple times before apparently breaking through. Why won't people just name the buyer? Is there some sort of taboo in doing that around here? Not everyone is as plugged into these things as some of the other board regulars. Twanj 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Just now, PhilipB2k17 said: Well, in this very thread there was one other buyer who offered 30K for that same cover last year. But he was rebuffed. So, we know of at least two collectors willing to pay at least $30k for it. Now that it's sold for 50K (or thereabouts, maybe it was more because we don't now the final sales number!), you are starting to see a bit of a market developing for the top end Capullo pieces. I get what you're saying about the secondary market. But, clearly there were enough buyers of the panel and splash pages out there to indicate that even at those price points, the good stuff would sell. We'd have to eliminate the person who offered the $30k as not also being the person who eventually paid the $50k. His market is more robust in terms of number of pieces sold than one would expect, at least in initial sales direct from the artist, but without know the breadth of the sales pool and how many different buyers we're talking about we don't know who's going to be there to meet that when those buyers decide to sell. I think the artwork is great, very dynamic. I am just very skeptical of valuations made in a vacuum. So I agree that it's possible that Capullo's pieces will only go up from here, but I don't have enough information to feel that it's likely or probable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Just now, comix4fun said: We'd have to eliminate the person who offered the $30k as not also being the person who eventually paid the $50k. His market is more robust in terms of number of pieces sold than one would expect, at least in initial sales direct from the artist, but without know the breadth of the sales pool and how many different buyers we're talking about we don't know who's going to be there to meet that when those buyers decide to sell. I think the artwork is great, very dynamic. I am just very skeptical of valuations made in a vacuum. So I agree that it's possible that Capullo's pieces will only go up from here, but I don't have enough information to feel that it's likely or probable. That's fair! And you are very reasonable in this assessment. I am merely throwing this out there is a data pint that suggests - but does not prove! - that maybe the OA hobby's longer term prospects might not be as dire as some very thoughtful and knowledgeable collectors believe. Then again, I saw a nice Finch Batman page on eBay plummet from the initial asking price to a point I thought suggested that maybe the market for his Batman panel pages was inflated, or coming down from a high. So, the Capullo bubble may not be having a carry over effect to other well-regarded modern Batman artists. Then again, it was only one page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquareChaos Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 As someone that hasn't followed his work, is it going up across the board, or just for his Batman work? What about, say, his Spawn work? Didn't he also work on at least a year of Haunt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Just now, SquareChaos said: As someone that hasn't followed his work, is it going up across the board, or just for his Batman work? What about, say, his Spawn work? Didn't he also work on at least a year of Haunt? I think his Spawn stuff is also seeing a halo effect from his Batman work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said: I think his Spawn stuff is also seeing a halo effect from his Batman work. For that we just have to split out the McFarlane/Capullo collaborations as there's a distinct interest in those pieces for the McFarlane involvement and the dearth of all McFarlane Spawn pieces in the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket1312 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 42 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said: Why won't people just name the buyer? Is there some sort of taboo in doing that around here? Not everyone is as plugged into these things as some of the other board regulars. I don't want to speak out of turn, nor am I 100% sure who the buyer is. It's just an educated guess (that I'm REALLY confident about) based on what I read on these and other boards. I'm not the least bit plugged in beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONSTER Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 The buyer is very active online so I think we are all giving him the chance to announce it himself. I'm sure he's got one heck of a write up that's going to come along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 hour ago, PhilipB2k17 said: What may be happening is the Dark Knight effect, in that people saw how the DKR pages went into the stratosphere in the hobby, and may be buying Capullo Batman pages now, with the expectation they will hit DKR levels in 20 years. Who knows? Maybe they're right? I suspect that's at least a thought for many buyers and sellers of new Batman art, that they're on the ground floor of the next DKR. There's one high-profile artist with a Batman project coming out who is making that connection to his fans now. At least some of them are taking it seriously (groan). Probably enough for him to get his asking prices (double groan). It's gotta be tough being a Batman art collector! Sideshow Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) Kyle K on CAF then? Would appear to meet with his collection on CAF and the location where the deal was said to take place? He also references Court of Owls as his favorite Batman story in the write up for his Capullo Batman #6 p8 splash currently on CAF Edited September 18, 2017 by Bronty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 hour ago, comix4fun said: For that we just have to split out the McFarlane/Capullo collaborations as there's a distinct interest in those pieces for the McFarlane involvement and the dearth of all McFarlane Spawn pieces in the market. Yeah, I'm not sure I get that. Why would McFarlane INKS on Capullo garner that much of a premium? Even on Spawn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bronty said: Kyle K on CAF then? Would appear to meet with his collection on CAF and the location where the deal was said to take place? He also references Court of Owls as his favorite Batman story in the write up for his Capullo Batman splash currently on CAF If so, that means there were at least two bidders willing to pay at least $30K for that cover. And, I suspect that final price was North of the publicized $50K, if in fact Capullo was so reluctant to sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Nexus said: I suspect that's at least a thought for many buyers and sellers of new Batman art, that they're on the ground floor of the next DKR. There's one high-profile artist with a Batman project coming out who is making that connection to his fans now. At least some of them are taking it seriously (groan). Probably enough for him to get his asking prices (double groan). It's gotta be tough being a Batman art collector! When I heard you talk about this artist on your Podcast while back, Felix, I assumed you were talking about Capullo! Obviously, not. Edited September 18, 2017 by PhilipB2k17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Why do you say that? Couldn't he just as easily have been the only person willing to meet the price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Marino Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said: When I heard you talk about this artist on your Podcast while back, Felix, I assumed you were talking about Capullo! Obviously, not. I'm willing to bet it's a book that comes out Oct 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said: Yeah, I'm not sure I get that. Why would McFarlane INKS on Capullo garner that much of a premium? Even on Spawn? I don't get it either, beyond the fact that in the vacuum of "All-McFarlane" Spawn artwork people will pay a premium for Spawn artwork that he inked. The prices and valuations on such pieces have been out-sized (over and above Capullo-alone pieces) for well over a decade. I guess the heart wants what the heart wants and if it wants Spawn done in the hand of its creator it will take inks if that's all they can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Machismo Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 25 minutes ago, Nexus said: I suspect that's at least a thought for many buyers and sellers of new Batman art, that they're on the ground floor of the next DKR. There's one high-profile artist with a Batman project coming out who is making that connection to his fans now. At least some of them are taking it seriously (groan). Probably enough for him to get his asking prices (double groan). It's gotta be tough being a Batman art collector! I particularly lol'd when he tweeted "I have high end buyers looking to drive the prices up to Miller DK type of money." But hey, gotta respect the guy's business acumen. If he's been honest, his page rate with DC is tremendous and he'll make a load off original sales, whether they're worth asking price or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 9 minutes ago, Pete Marino said: I'm willing to bet it's a book that comes out Oct 4. Would that be Sean Murphy's "Batman: White Knight?" If so, it would be kind of ironic that he's calling it his "Dark Knight." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Mr. Machismo said: I particularly lol'd when he tweeted "I have high end buyers looking to drive the prices up to Miller DK type of money." But hey, gotta respect the guy's business acumen. If he's been honest, his page rate with DC is tremendous and he'll make a load off original sales, whether they're worth asking price or not! Well, the OA from it looks pretty damn killer. But, it's not enough to have killer art. You have to have a killer, paradigm changing story as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
