Will newstand comics prove to be the rarest variant? 1 1

[shadroch]

I remember an early meeting of the East Coast Comic Book Retailers where a guy we invited was talking about the test priced books of the 1970s and how they would be highly sort after. Most of us scoffed at his suggestion.

[Tony S]

I would say a newstand is even more of a manufactured collectible than a ratio variant.

Given the choice between a direct edition, newsstand edition, or a ratio variant for a book that you're going to buy anyway... which do you pick if they're all cover price?

 

The answer is almost always "the ratio variant, unless I don't like the cover".

Turns out, the newsstand was probably the better answer for the past 20 years... we just didn't know it.

 

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=9244482&Searchpage=1

 

The chart is useful and I wish more people were generally aware of this. "Newstand Variants" from 1977 are not rare. They are the common.

 

That said, the real issue is that the chart reflects the information collectors have. COLLECTORS HAVE NO IDEA THE SALES RATIO OF INDIVIDUAL ISSUES. Some newstand editions of titles and individual books from the late 1980's and 1990's clearly sold better/had more newstand copies than others. It's not really hard to find Newstand copies of New Mutants 98 (1991). Clearly the direct editions are more common. But the newstand copies are not "rare". Collectors also should take into account that on the DC side, they were a couple of years behind Marvel in embracing the direct market. So that chart probably should be nudged forward a few years for DC.

 

The graph isn't exactly accurate though. By 1989 Marvel was selling 90% of their books direct. We just don't know which titles - and there were some -that still had substantial newstand sales from 1989 and well into the 90's.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Tony S

[shadroch]

How does one differentiate a copper age DC direct from it'd newsstand brethren?

[Lazyboy]

How does one differentiate a copper age DC direct from it'd newsstand brethren?

 

The same as Marvel. Newsstand copies have UPCs.

[shadroch]

How does one differentiate a copper age DC direct from it'd newsstand brethren?

 

The same as Marvel. Newsstand copies have UPCs.

 

As do the direct market ones, no?

[Lazyboy]

How does one differentiate a copper age DC direct from it'd newsstand brethren?

 

The same as Marvel. Newsstand copies have UPCs.

 

As do the direct market ones, no?

 

No.

 

[Lazyboy]

I would say a newstand is even more of a manufactured collectible than a ratio variant.

Given the choice between a direct edition, newsstand edition, or a ratio variant for a book that you're going to buy anyway... which do you pick if they're all cover price?

 

The answer is almost always "the ratio variant, unless I don't like the cover".

Turns out, the newsstand was probably the better answer for the past 20 years... we just didn't know it.

 

 

 

The chart is useful and I wish more people were generally aware of this. "Newstand Variants" from 1977 are not rare. They are the common.

 

That said, the real issue is that the chart reflects the information collectors have. COLLECTORS HAVE NO IDEA THE SALES RATIO OF INDIVIDUAL ISSUES. Some newstand editions of titles and individual books from the late 1980's and 1990's clearly sold better/had more newstand copies than others. It's not really hard to find Newstand copies of New Mutants 98 (1991). Clearly the direct editions are more common. But the newstand copies are not "rare". Collectors also should take into account that on the DC side, they were a couple of years behind Marvel in embracing the direct market. So that chart probably should be nudged forward a few years for DC.

 

The graph isn't exactly accurate though. By 1989 Marvel was selling 90% of their books direct. We just don't know which titles - and there were some -that still had substantial newstand sales from 1989 and well into the 90's.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I would say a newstand is even more of a manufactured collectible than a ratio variant.

Given the choice between a direct edition, newsstand edition, or a ratio variant for a book that you're going to buy anyway... which do you pick if they're all cover price?

 

The answer is almost always "the ratio variant, unless I don't like the cover".

Turns out, the newsstand was probably the better answer for the past 20 years... we just didn't know it.

 

 

 

The chart is useful and I wish more people were generally aware of this. "Newstand Variants" from 1977 are not rare. They are the common.

 

That said, the real issue is that the chart reflects the information collectors have. COLLECTORS HAVE NO IDEA THE SALES RATIO OF INDIVIDUAL ISSUES. Some newstand editions of titles and individual books from the late 1980's and 1990's clearly sold better/had more newstand copies than others. It's not really hard to find Newstand copies of New Mutants 98 (1991). Clearly the direct editions are more common. But the newstand copies are not "rare". Collectors also should take into account that on the DC side, they were a couple of years behind Marvel in embracing the direct market. So that chart probably should be nudged forward a few years for DC.

 

The graph isn't exactly accurate though. By 1989 Marvel was selling 90% of their books direct. We just don't know which titles - and there were some -that still had substantial newstand sales from 1989 and well into the 90's.

 

 

 

Yes,

 

[Tony S]

How does one differentiate a copper age DC direct from it'd newsstand brethren?

 

The same as Marvel. Newsstand copies have UPCs.

 

As do the direct market ones, no?

 

Suicide Squad 1 - DC 1987 retail

 

 

 

Same book direct market

 

 

[shadroch]

How about earlier examples? When Marvel first went to the little diamond, for example

[HarveySwick]

How about earlier examples? When Marvel first went to the little diamond, for example

 

 

[shadroch]

Okay, my fault. I guess I wasn't clear enough. Are there examples of DC direct Market being different from newsstand copies in the early 1980s. All the examples shown are from 84/85 on.

[valiantman]

Okay, my fault. I guess I wasn't clear enough. Are there examples of DC direct Market being different from newsstand copies in the early 1980s. All the examples shown are from 84/85 on.

Sure... some early 1980s DC keys:

 

DC Comics Presents #26 (1980) has a UPC on the newsstand edition and "MORE NEW PAGES FROM THE NEW DC" on the direct edition.

DC Comics Presents #47 (1982) has a UPC on the newsstand edition and "DC WHERE THE ACTION IS!" on the direct edition.

 

Newsstand DCP #26

 

Direct DCP #47

[fastballspecial]

 

The whole thing is rather silly though, isn't it? I mean, it's the same comic, It just has a UPC code on it.

 

A ratio variant is the same comic, just with a different cover, and only on the front.

 

I can understand going after a variant with an entirely different cover. The idea of going after it simply because it has a bar code on it is silly.

 

ASM 36 V2 looks quite a bit different with it.

 

I get the argument some just chase the rarity.

 

[valiantman]

 

The whole thing is rather silly though, isn't it? I mean, it's the same comic, It just has a UPC code on it.

 

A ratio variant is the same comic, just with a different cover, and only on the front.

 

I can understand going after a variant with an entirely different cover. The idea of going after it simply because it has a bar code on it is silly.

 

ASM 36 V2 looks quite a bit different with it.

 

I get the argument some just chase the rarity.

Rarity (in production numbers) is one aspect. Newsstand books being (primarily) on the shelves of non-comic shops before they find homes with (primarily) non-collectors or being returned as unsold and pulped also adds to the story of (unlikely) high grade newsstand (for books printed in the past 25 years).

 

Sure, a comic collector can choose a pristine newsstand edition from a fresh stack of books which is no different than a comic collector choosing a pristine direct edition from a fresh stack of books... but it's unlikely that it happened nearly as often for newsstand.

[bababooey]

One problem with these is that there is a tipping point where saying "newsstand" is a sales pitch based on the scarcity of later issues. So when e-bayers are calling their ASM 200's newsstand copies, it hurts the ASM 300's, 400's, 500's and 600's - in my mind only the last two might be rarer by a wide margin.

 

The second problem is that even 5 or 10% of the print run isn't rare enough for educated demand to clear out the supply to the point where prices start to move, once that happens atypical collector demand based on it being considered valuable kicks in.

 

I would even say 15 years ago like the ASM 36 issue there was still a fairly viable newsstand distribution network. That's my experience, it seems like some time after that there was a decline.

 

I would love nothing better than to see something concrete that proved me wrong because I've got an ASM 36 CGC 9.8 newsstand & most of the books I picked up randomly when I quit collecting from 1992 to 2001 were newsstand copies.

 

[Tony S]

 

The whole thing is rather silly though, isn't it? I mean, it's the same comic, It just has a UPC code on it.

 

A ratio variant is the same comic, just with a different cover, and only on the front.

 

I can understand going after a variant with an entirely different cover. The idea of going after it simply because it has a bar code on it is silly.

 

ASM 36 V2 looks quite a bit different with it.

 

I get the argument some just chase the rarity.

Rarity (in production numbers) is one aspect. Newsstand books being (primarily) on the shelves of non-comic shops before they find homes with (primarily) non-collectors or being returned as unsold and pulped also adds to the story of (unlikely) high grade newsstand (for books printed in the past 25 years).

 

Sure, a comic collector can choose a pristine newsstand edition from a fresh stack of books which is no different than a comic collector choosing a pristine direct edition from a fresh stack of books... but it's unlikely that it happened nearly as often for newsstand.

 

The problem here remains lack of information. And collectors making decisions not realizing the lack of information.

 

The direct vs newstand condition thing is mostly theory. It seems logical. But until the grading companies start noting direct and newstand - and recording it on their census - we won't really know if it is theory or fact.

 

Regardless, we ONLY KNOW the general trends for Marvel and to an even lesser extent DC as far as their overall, total distribution. Sales breakdowns of individual issues and titles remains corporate trade secrets. It is both logical - and appears to be born out by sales - that SOME titles and issues sold much better than the average on the newstand.

 

I will also state the obvious elephant in the room. Newstand copies are rarer than direct - starting around 1986. Becoming much rarer by 1990. Direct editions are the rarity in the late 70's and early 80's. Collectors just chasing newstand are making a fundamental mistake, unless they don't collect books published before 1986.

 

 

Edited April 28, 2016 by Tony S

[Martin Sinescu]

The direct vs newstand condition thing is mostly theory. It seems logical. But until the grading companies start noting direct and newstand - and recording it on their census - we won't really know if it is theory or fact.

 

 

I'm sure CGC has been asked about this, do they have a reason for not differentiating between the two?

[Red_Hood]

Newsstand was the common method of distribution until early direct market came along around 1977 or so.

Newsstand isn't a "rare" item during the 80's but as we approach the early 90's the ratio of newsstand to direct market took a steady decline.

 

The distinction is that Newsstand Editions are much more scarce in higher grade due to the distribution channels.

 

Fast forward to present day and the ratio is the lowest it has been in history for newsstand editions, 1% or less of a particular title's print run. This now makes them tougher to find, ie "rare" and tougher to obtain in high grade.

 

For example, what do you think is tougher to put together, a New DC 52 run of Batman in only newsstand format or collecting all the 1 in 50 variant covers that each issue produces.

This does make it extremely rare and in 5 to 10 years completionists may be scratching their head looking for these books.

I've eluded to this numerous times over the years.

 

This is not some theory as someone mentioned earlier.

You don't need 3rd party grading companies to acknowledge it and put it on their label to make it fact. Collectors need to educate themselves and each other.

[thecopperagekids]

Newsstand was the common method of distribution until early direct market came along around 1977 or so.

Newsstand isn't a "rare" item during the 80's but as we approach the early 90's the ratio of newsstand to direct market took a steady decline.

 

The distinction is that Newsstand Editions are much more scarce in higher grade due to the distribution channels.

 

Fast forward to present day and the ratio is the lowest it has been in history for newsstand editions, 1% or less of a particular title's print run. This now makes them tougher to find, ie "rare" and tougher to obtain in high grade.

 

For example, what do you think is tougher to put together, a New DC 52 run of Batman in only newsstand format or collecting all the 1 in 50 variant covers that each issue produces.

This does make it extremely rare and in 5 to 10 years completionists may be scratching their head looking for these books.

I've eluded to this numerous times over the years.

 

This is not some theory as someone mentioned earlier.

You don't need 3rd party grading companies to acknowledge it and put it on their label to make it fact. Collectors need to educate themselves and each other.

 

 

80's newsstands are not rare, except HG copies.This is a simplistic statement but fpor the most part, it is accurate enough to make a point.

 

As far as rarity of newsstands goes, in HG...by HG, I mean 9.6/9.8, it is fairly easy to determine the rarity of any given book...or at least, any given book that has 100 or more copies in the census, between 9.6 and 9.8.

 

It looks to be around 1 in 20.Or less.

 

Case in point:

 

http://Support-the-Collectors-Society.com/itm/Suicide-Squad-1-DC-1987-CGC-NM-MT-9-8-White-Pages-/351715258599?nav=WATCHING_ACTIVE

 

Pull up a search under Suicide Squad 1 CGC 9.6 9.8 1987.....you'll see 20 or so listings, with one newsstand in the bunch.

 

A CGC 9.6 newsstand last sold for $311.....a cgc 9.8 newsstand sold for $359, a month before.

 

Both books had excellent wraps, as does this copy.

 

I have had 3 cgc 9.8 newsstands out of a total of 10 newsstand copies of this book I had graded... all of the books had at least a little bit of white showing.Unlike this Heritage eBay listing.FWIW, I got $325 for a slightly off centered newsstand cgc 9.8, recently....but that was via BIN, not an auction listing.

 

So, centering of copper newsstands is definitely an issue, almost as much as the grade disparity between 9.6 and 9.8.

 

Not so much an issue with newer newsstands i.e. Batman New52's don't have dual toned front/back covers so getting off centered wraps is for the most part, a non-issue.

 

As far as a run of Batman52 newsstands and a run of Batman 1:50 variant covers is concerned, I think both would be fairly difficult to put together.If you are just looking for a CGC 9.8 run, my guess is that you'll be looking much longer.

 

If you are looking for off grade runs, I think the newsstand would be easier/cheaper to put together.

 

You'd have to wade through a lot of listings on eBay to find the newsstands in decent grades, as most sellers are not aware.

 

I think CGC and the other grading company should differentiate on their respective labels for books i.e. newsstand and direct market editions.

 

I am not holding my breath for this to occur, though.

 

It would likely require oodles of man hours to update the labels on every single book they grade, from the early 1980's to present, and intil newsstands are recognized as "bonafide" variants, CGC and Voldemort will not spend the time updating their labels, I'd wager.