drotto Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Bosco685 said: I wonder if it is because they did drop so many hints throughout Guardians Peter was not 100% human, this made it more acceptable. Even with Yondu talking about the contract with his father. It could even be because Carol is so distant and reserved throughout much of the film, there isn't as strong an emotional connection yet with her compared to Peter's extrovert characteristics through Guardians you couldn't help but like him, and know him immediately. My issue was they keep saying her emotions were holding her back or her weakness, yet she was the emotionally flattest character on the movie. Bosco685 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, drotto said: The timeline of the Tesseract is messy now at best. The only reasonable explanation is the government gave it to Mar Vel to use in her experiment. But at some point I though Odin had it? I am confused. At the end of The Avengers (2012 - 2010 timeline according to some - but that would screw up the MCU timeline if they change the year of the Invasion of New York), Thor and Loki return to Asgard using the Tesseract. It was in Odin's Vault until Loki swiped it in Ragnarok. Bosco685 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, drotto said: The timeline of the Tesseract is messy now at best. The only reasonable explanation is the government gave it to Mar Vel to use in her experiment. But at some point I though Odin had it? I am confused. It does get confusing now. A bunch of fans have been trying to keep the story straight. https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Tesseract I need to read through this all. But yes, Odin had it. It was in the vault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Bosco685 said: It does get confusing now. A bunch of fans have been trying to keep the story straight. https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Tesseract I need to read through this all. But yes, Odin had it. It was in the vault. I know that Nick Fury told Cap in The Avengers, "Howard Stark fished it out of the ocean when he was looking for you", but when was that? How did Mar-Vell did ahold of it? This certainly makes thing muddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, TwoPiece said: I know that Nick Fury told Cap in The Avengers, "Howard Stark fished it out of the ocean when he was looking for you", but when was that? How did Mar-Vell did ahold of it? This certainly makes thing muddy. No worries. Unlike the X-Men timeline complaints, this will fall under 'trust in the MCU'. Edited March 18, 2019 by Bosco685 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Bosco685 said: No worries. Unlike the X-Men timeline complaints, this will fall under 'trust in the MCU'. I suppose, but when the movie is 'meh', it asks for less trust. A great movie will otherwise allow you to ignore 'small' things like this, but our curiosity is more piqued, since a 'meh' movie may more or less screw with a coherent timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bosco685 said: It does get confusing now. A bunch of fans have been trying to keep the story straight. https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Tesseract I need to read through this all. But yes, Odin had it. It was in the vault. This is loaded with great details about the Tesseract. Quote After his return to Asgard, Thor gave the Tesseract to Heimdall. The all-seeing Asgardian used the Tesseract to repair the Bifrost Bridge so the Asgardians could once again protect all of the inhabitants of the Nine Realms endangered by the Marauders. I guess this took place between Avengers and Thor 2 in a prequel comic book. But this may be the answer. Quote Following the war, Stark studied the Tesseract for some time, recording his research in a notebook. Believing that the energy within the Tesseract would be beneficial to mankind, Stark was instrumental in the creation of Project P.E.G.A.S.U.S., a joint venture between S.H.I.E.L.D., NASA and the United States Air Force tasked with studying and harnessing the Tesseract's energy and to whom he relinquished custody of the Tesseract. The Kree scientist Mar-Vell, who had taken on the guise of a human and was calling herself Doctor Wendy Lawson, joined the project with the goal of harnessing the Tesseract's power to create a Light-Speed Engine for the Skrullrefugees under her protection. The Tesseract was eventually relocated to Mar-Vell's orbital laboratory, where it remained untouched for six years. When Captain Marvel and Nick Fury arrived at the lab, they placed the Tesseract in a Fonz lunchbox to try and smuggle it out before the Starforce arrived, demanding the artifact. Goose, a Flerken, swallowed the Tesseract while Marvel led her former allies on a diversionary chase for the empty lunchbox. Once the Kree and Skrulls had left Earth, Goose regurgitated the Tesseract on Fury's desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I just explained all of that! I thought YOU guys were the experts on all of this! 56 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said: After Howard Stark discovers it (while searching for Steve Rogers - it fell into the ocean during the final battle with the Red Skull), he creates Project Pegasus with SHIELD, NASA and the USAF. Mar-vell apparently tracked the energy to earth - assumed the identity of a scientist, and became a part of the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 No one was paying attention, because you didn't argue about how special Capt. Marvel is for being a female... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 57 minutes ago, Bosco685 said: I wonder if it is because they did drop so many hints throughout Guardians Peter was not 100% human, this made it more acceptable. Even with Yondu talking about the contract with his father. It's not fully explained. That's what everyone is complaining about. They want a full explanation of her powers. 57 minutes ago, Bosco685 said: It could even be because Carol is so distant and reserved throughout much of the film, there isn't as strong an emotional connection yet with her compared to Peter's extrovert characteristics through Guardians you couldn't help but like him, and know him immediately. Well... her behavior is consistent with someone who a) has amnesia, b) is obviously suffering from severe PTSD (memories, nightmares, flashbacks) c) has a power dampening module attached to her neck, and d) is under the guided manipulation of a superior. THOUGH... If you watch Chris Evans' Captain America... who is pretty even keel, and even somber through most every scene he's in... including action scenes... Brie's Captain Marvel seems almost lively compared to him. And yet... no criticism of Evans. Watching it again yesterday (CM), I was looking for her behavior especially... her humor is deadpan, which is funny when RDJ or Thor does it, but I guess it doesn't translate as well for some people when... she does it. I thought she was funny and engaging in the movie... much more so than Evans' Captain America, for sure. I just don't get the criticism. Comicopolis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 She's not likable, unlike RDJ, Hemsworth, and Evans... Her character is also boring unlike Iron Man, Thor, and Capt. America. She's also the product of a McGuffin, with no character arc, unlike that trio... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 And Black Widow? She's the most one-note actress/character in the Marve Universe. Jake Llyod has more emotional depth than her. Famke Jansen's Marvel Girl? Sophie Turner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said: It's not fully explained. That's what everyone is complaining about. They want a full explanation of her powers. Are they, though? Or is it the film didn't give us enough foundation to accept the light explanation for now? 2 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said: Well... her behavior is consistent with someone who a) has amnesia, b) is obviously suffering from severe PTSD (memories, nightmares, flashbacks) c) has a power dampening module attached to her neck, and d) is under the guided manipulation of a superior. Severe PTSD? You mean like...Batman seeing his parents die in front of him and years of extensive battles with villains? I like the way you think on this. 2 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said: If you watch Chris Evans' Captain America... who is pretty even keel, and even somber through most every scene he's in... including action scenes... Brie's Captain Marvel seems almost lively compared to him. And yet... no criticism of Evans. You may be hinting at male versus female expectations. But in First Avenger (not high on my MCU list like Winter Soldier) Steve Rogers does show emotion, when appropriate. Even when he is watching the war update footage leading to a fight, he reacts to the loudmouth. It's not a flat, non-emotional performance where you can't connect with the character. He is driven by his emotions and values wanting to be part of the war effort. And no matter the hurdle, willing to risk it all to do what is right. Sweet Lou 14 and theCapraAegagrus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Cap also gets quite annoyed in The Avengers, at Stark in particular, because he doesn't like his antics. Cap isn't one of my faves, but Evans' acting and his character are both great. Sweet Lou 14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 In retrospect I've probably got over a dozen characters whose powers I barely understand yet I still like them. What does Silver Surfer do again? Err, he, uh, surfs, and shoots something cosmic-y from his hands. I'm sure authors over the years have defined his powers better, but Stan definitely didn't define them in the early FF appearances, yet he still became mega-popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said: Are they, though? Or is it the film didn't give us enough foundation to accept the light explanation for now? It gave ME enough. An Air Force pilot, she absorbed cosmic power from an Infinity Stone and then was trained for 6 years by the Kree. 2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said: Severe PTSD? You mean like...Batman seeing his parents die in front of him and years of extensive battles with villains? I like the way you think on this. 2 Batman clearly has PTSD. 2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said: You may be hinting at male versus female expectations. It doesn't have to be. It can just be actor vs actor. 2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said: But in First Avenger (not high on my MCU list like Winter Soldier) Steve Rogers does show emotion, when appropriate. Even when he is watching the war update footage leading to a fight, he reacts to the loudmouth. Sure, you can find instances where he shows some emotion - I can show instances where Brie does as well - when she shouts back at the Sjrull on the ship during her fight - when she gets emotional with Talos about not knowing who she really is - but overall, Evans portrayal of Captain America is VERY UN-emotional. Very controlled. Very much the same as Brie. 2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said: It's not a flat, non-emotional performance where you can't connect with the character. He is driven by his emotions and values wanting to be part of the war effort. And no matter the hurdle, willing to risk it all to do what is right. I've never connected with the charcater other than as a flat, non-emotional soldier type of character. I appreciated him for that. Brie's charcter isn't that far removed from who HE is. A soldier. Constantly told she can't be what she wants to be. Gains power. Becomes a Captain. I bonded with that story. You didn't. Not sure why, but I found her to be convincing and enjoyable. Something with comic book fans I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, fantastic_four said: In retrospect I've probably got over a dozen characters whose powers I barely understand yet I still like them. What does Silver Surfer do again? Err, he, uh, surfs, and shoots something cosmic-y from his hands. I'm sure authors over the years have defined his powers better, but Stan definitely didn't define them in the early FF appearances, yet he still became mega-popular. Exactly. Superman's powers have grown and changed over DECADES to be re-explained and retconned and retooled and court ordered and everything else. When he was introduced in 1939 he couldn't even fly! That wasn't introduced for a few years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystafo Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 9 hours ago, rjrjr said: TBH, I wish I had not grown up reading comic books, because I would probably enjoy these movies more. I've also been feeling this way since around the middle of phase 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 27 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said: It's not fully explained. That's what everyone is complaining about. They want a full explanation of her powers. Well... her behavior is consistent with someone who a) has amnesia, b) is obviously suffering from severe PTSD (memories, nightmares, flashbacks) c) has a power dampening module attached to her neck, and d) is under the guided manipulation of a superior. THOUGH... If you watch Chris Evans' Captain America... who is pretty even keel, and even somber through most every scene he's in... including action scenes... Brie's Captain Marvel seems almost lively compared to him. And yet... no criticism of Evans. Watching it again yesterday (CM), I was looking for her behavior especially... her humor is deadpan, which is funny when RDJ or Thor does it, but I guess it doesn't translate as well for some people when... she does it. I thought she was funny and engaging in the movie... much more so than Evans' Captain America, for sure. I just don't get the criticism. Exactly. This. As I've noted before, Captain Marvel is very much like the first Captain America film -- from plot to timeline to the main character's basically flat demeanor. But no one leveled the same criticisms at that movie -- I think it's less about Captain Marvel's being a female and more that the character's not as well known to comic fans as Captain America, and folks resent her being such a late addition (whereas if she'd been introduced even back in 2016 - a la Doctor Strange) it'd be less of an issue. And in case no one's mentioned it lately, the Tesseract is the Space Stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Aldred Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 PTSD induced by observing or being subjected to a violent act, personal loss, physically and psychologically overwhelming, is a common trope in comic books, both for heroes and villains. Prince Namor and Bosco685 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
