Silver Age Hierarchy: Poll 5: 19th - 21st

[makeminemego]

Spidey 1, 14, and FF 48 got my vote.

 

A question to the people pumping Spidey 1... if Spidey had continued in Amazing Fantasy instead of getting his own title, would AF16 be this high on the list?

 

As someone who "pumps" ASM1, it's impossible to answer the above question.

 

...If Spider-Man had more appearances in Amazing Fantasy, like JLA (which was comprised of heroes with WAAAYYY more than 2 appearances) in BB, or Flash and Lantern in SC, then maybe ASM 1 is more of a Strange Tales 110/Avengers 1/FLASH 105/DD 1 sort of key

 

So... you did answer it... and the answer is no. That's what I thought, thanks!

 

No. If I were answering your question, I would have referenced AF 16. That's what your question was asking about I think (although I could be mistaken), not if ASM 1 would have a diminished value if AF 16 did in fact exist, which is what I was commenting on.

 

I have no idea if AF 16 would make the list or not. Book doesn't exist (at least in a vintage form). ASM 1 does, and it's the 2nd appearance of Spider-Man. We can all agree/disagree how important that sort of thing is, of course. Some love the book, some like the book, some just don't.

[1koko]

Spidey 1, 14, and FF 48 got my vote.

 

A question to the people pumping Spidey 1... if Spidey had continued in Amazing Fantasy instead of getting his own title, would AF16 be this high on the list?

 

As someone who "pumps" ASM1, it's impossible to answer the above question.

 

...If Spider-Man had more appearances in Amazing Fantasy, like JLA (which was comprised of heroes with WAAAYYY more than 2 appearances) in BB, or Flash and Lantern in SC, then maybe ASM 1 is more of a Strange Tales 110/Avengers 1/FLASH 105/DD 1 sort of key

 

So... you did answer it... and the answer is no. That's what I thought, thanks!

 

 

No. If I were answering your question, I would have referenced AF 16. That's what your question was asking about I think (although I could be mistaken), not if ASM 1 would have a diminished value if AF 16 did in fact exist, which is what I was commenting on.

 

I have no idea if AF 16 would make the list or not. Book doesn't exist (at least in a vintage form). ASM 1 does, and it's the 2nd appearance of Spider-Man. We can all agree/disagree how important that sort of thing is, of course. Some love the book, some like the book, some just don't.

 

Here is a different spin on the ASM #1 debate.

 

We are so used to seeing new comics being issued that we may not be noting the significance of ASM #1 at that time.

 

It's an important comic as it reflects a change in the comics industry.

 

The DC SA single character keys prior to ASM #1 are updates of existing characters, which with the waters tested, then move to their own books.

 

With Spider-Man we have a test in Amazing Fantasy #15 ( a title about to be cut) and then a decision that a new character (with no GA history to help promote sales) can carry its own title. Don't forget that (1) Hulk came out before ASM #1 and failed; and (2) Other characters after 1st issues continued in their test out titles (JIM, TTA and TOS).

 

You could therefore argue that ASM #1 is the affirmation that creativity in the SA will be profitable and an encouragement for non-DC publishers to take a risk in the comics industry.

 

 

[bronze johnny]

Spidey 1, 14, and FF 48 got my vote.

 

A question to the people pumping Spidey 1... if Spidey had continued in Amazing Fantasy instead of getting his own title, would AF16 be this high on the list?

 

As someone who "pumps" ASM1, it's impossible to answer the above question.

 

...If Spider-Man had more appearances in Amazing Fantasy, like JLA (which was comprised of heroes with WAAAYYY more than 2 appearances) in BB, or Flash and Lantern in SC, then maybe ASM 1 is more of a Strange Tales 110/Avengers 1/FLASH 105/DD 1 sort of key

 

So... you did answer it... and the answer is no. That's what I thought, thanks!

 

 

No. If I were answering your question, I would have referenced AF 16. That's what your question was asking about I think (although I could be mistaken), not if ASM 1 would have a diminished value if AF 16 did in fact exist, which is what I was commenting on.

 

I have no idea if AF 16 would make the list or not. Book doesn't exist (at least in a vintage form). ASM 1 does, and it's the 2nd appearance of Spider-Man. We can all agree/disagree how important that sort of thing is, of course. Some love the book, some like the book, some just don't.

 

Here is a different spin on the ASM #1 debate.

 

We are so used to seeing new comics being issued that we may not be noting the significance of ASM #1 at that time.

 

It's an important comic as it reflects a change in the comics industry.

 

The DC SA single character keys prior to ASM #1 are updates of existing characters, which with the waters tested, then move to their own books.

 

With Spider-Man we have a test in Amazing Fantasy #15 ( a title about to be cut) and then a decision that a new character (with no GA history to help promote sales) can carry its own title. Don't forget that (1) Hulk came out before ASM #1 and failed; and (2) Other characters after 1st issues continued in their test out titles (JIM, TTA and TOS).

 

You could therefore argue that ASM #1 is the affirmation that creativity in the SA will be profitable and an encouragement for non-DC publishers to take a risk in the comics industry.

 

 

Other than DD 1 in '64, what non-DC publishers had successful number 1 issue launches of superhero characters after ASM 1 between '63 and Marvel's '68 expansion?

I do believe that Marvel would have followed DC's approach much sooner than '68 had Marvel not had it's hands tied by DC's position in distribution.

 

Your point about how the number 1 is interpreted today is a key one. Number one issues in the early DC and Marvel Silver Age's must be distinguished from first issues published in the Modern Age.

[1koko]

Spidey 1, 14, and FF 48 got my vote.

 

A question to the people pumping Spidey 1... if Spidey had continued in Amazing Fantasy instead of getting his own title, would AF16 be this high on the list?

 

As someone who "pumps" ASM1, it's impossible to answer the above question.

 

...If Spider-Man had more appearances in Amazing Fantasy, like JLA (which was comprised of heroes with WAAAYYY more than 2 appearances) in BB, or Flash and Lantern in SC, then maybe ASM 1 is more of a Strange Tales 110/Avengers 1/FLASH 105/DD 1 sort of key

 

So... you did answer it... and the answer is no. That's what I thought, thanks!

 

 

No. If I were answering your question, I would have referenced AF 16. That's what your question was asking about I think (although I could be mistaken), not if ASM 1 would have a diminished value if AF 16 did in fact exist, which is what I was commenting on.

 

I have no idea if AF 16 would make the list or not. Book doesn't exist (at least in a vintage form). ASM 1 does, and it's the 2nd appearance of Spider-Man. We can all agree/disagree how important that sort of thing is, of course. Some love the book, some like the book, some just don't.

 

Here is a different spin on the ASM #1 debate.

 

We are so used to seeing new comics being issued that we may not be noting the significance of ASM #1 at that time.

 

It's an important comic as it reflects a change in the comics industry.

 

The DC SA single character keys prior to ASM #1 are updates of existing characters, which with the waters tested, then move to their own books.

 

With Spider-Man we have a test in Amazing Fantasy #15 ( a title about to be cut) and then a decision that a new character (with no GA history to help promote sales) can carry its own title. Don't forget that (1) Hulk came out before ASM #1 and failed; and (2) Other characters after 1st issues continued in their test out titles (JIM, TTA and TOS).

 

You could therefore argue that ASM #1 is the affirmation that creativity in the SA will be profitable and an encouragement for non-DC publishers to take a risk in the comics industry.

 

 

Other than DD 1 in '64, what non-DC publishers had successful number 1 issue launches of superhero characters after ASM 1 between '63 and Marvel's '68 expansion?

I do believe that Marvel would have followed DC's approach much sooner than '68 had Marvel not had it's hands tied by DC's position in distribution.

 

Your point about how the number 1 is interpreted today is a key one. Number one issues in the early DC and Marvel Silver Age's must be distinguished from first issues published in the Modern Age.

 

From a Marvel point of view I should amend it to say that "Super-Hero" characters could carry books on their own. You are right to say that distribution prevented separate books. Thor took over JIM and though not one character per book TTA became - Hulk and Sub-Mariner and TOS became Iron Man + Cap America.

 

 

[bronze johnny]

Spidey 1, 14, and FF 48 got my vote.

 

A question to the people pumping Spidey 1... if Spidey had continued in Amazing Fantasy instead of getting his own title, would AF16 be this high on the list?

 

As someone who "pumps" ASM1, it's impossible to answer the above question.

 

...If Spider-Man had more appearances in Amazing Fantasy, like JLA (which was comprised of heroes with WAAAYYY more than 2 appearances) in BB, or Flash and Lantern in SC, then maybe ASM 1 is more of a Strange Tales 110/Avengers 1/FLASH 105/DD 1 sort of key

 

So... you did answer it... and the answer is no. That's what I thought, thanks!

 

 

No. If I were answering your question, I would have referenced AF 16. That's what your question was asking about I think (although I could be mistaken), not if ASM 1 would have a diminished value if AF 16 did in fact exist, which is what I was commenting on.

 

I have no idea if AF 16 would make the list or not. Book doesn't exist (at least in a vintage form). ASM 1 does, and it's the 2nd appearance of Spider-Man. We can all agree/disagree how important that sort of thing is, of course. Some love the book, some like the book, some just don't.

 

Here is a different spin on the ASM #1 debate.

 

We are so used to seeing new comics being issued that we may not be noting the significance of ASM #1 at that time.

 

It's an important comic as it reflects a change in the comics industry.

 

The DC SA single character keys prior to ASM #1 are updates of existing characters, which with the waters tested, then move to their own books.

 

With Spider-Man we have a test in Amazing Fantasy #15 ( a title about to be cut) and then a decision that a new character (with no GA history to help promote sales) can carry its own title. Don't forget that (1) Hulk came out before ASM #1 and failed; and (2) Other characters after 1st issues continued in their test out titles (JIM, TTA and TOS).

 

You could therefore argue that ASM #1 is the affirmation that creativity in the SA will be profitable and an encouragement for non-DC publishers to take a risk in the comics industry.

 

 

Other than DD 1 in '64, what non-DC publishers had successful number 1 issue launches of superhero characters after ASM 1 between '63 and Marvel's '68 expansion?

I do believe that Marvel would have followed DC's approach much sooner than '68 had Marvel not had it's hands tied by DC's position in distribution.

 

Your point about how the number 1 is interpreted today is a key one. Number one issues in the early DC and Marvel Silver Age's must be distinguished from first issues published in the Modern Age.

 

From a Marvel point of view I should amend it to say that "Super-Hero" characters could carry books on their own. You are right to say that distribution prevented separate books. Thor took over JIM and though not one character per book TTA became - Hulk and Sub-Mariner and TOS became Iron Man + Cap America.

 

 

It's safe to say that Marvel would have followed DC's pattern had distribution permitted. ASM 1 would have been followed by first issues of Thor, Ant-Man, Iron Man, etc. Still, the fact that Marvel published two number one superhero issues (beginning an ongoing run- DD1 is the other) after Hulk's cancellation and prior to the expansion in '68 makes ASM 1 a very special key in its own right. One of the great things this hobby gives us is a diversity of keys- a number one issue of one of the greatest comic book superheroes starring in his own title for several decades is an amazing key. The SA portfolio has this diversity of keys - something the superficiality of movies and television can never define. Let's never lose sight of this...

[1koko]

Totally agreed

[bronze johnny]

Totally agreed

 

I also believe that but for distribution "restrictions," Marvel would have added war titles to help Sgt. Fury take on DC's 5 warbooks. It's a testament to Sgt. Fury as a character and the popularity of the war genre at the time that Marvel gave a war character his own book before Ant-Man, Thor, Iron Man, etc. They could easily have started Sgt. Fury in an anthology and given one of those superheroes their own title. Another reason why Sgt. Fury 1 is underscored in terms of what the book meant to Marvel in those early critical Silver Age years. Sgt. Fury took on DC's Big 5 by himself- no small feat.

[jimjum12]

People always mention the distribution deal as a means for D.C. to "control" Marvel's competitive nature...... before the '57 implosion, Atlas/Marvel had dozens and dozens of titles. In an ironic twist, D.C.'s attempts at suppression may have actually backfired on them, as it forced Marvel to come up with creative ways to generate more sales per title to keep their doors open. Their solution to this obstacle was quality and it worked. Had Marvel been able to release the troves of titles they had in the past, we may never have seen the richness of character development that ensued..... but rather a continued flood of watered down formulaic "throw away" escapism that had filled the newsstands for the prior decade. Maybe D.C. actually did Marvel a favor with their heavy handed approach. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[KirbyJack]

People always mention the distribution deal as a means for D.C. to "control" Marvel's competitive nature...... before the '57 implosion, Atlas/Marvel had dozens and dozens of titles. In an ironic twist, D.C.'s attempts at suppression may have actually backfired on them, as it forced Marvel to come up with creative ways to generate more sales per title to keep their doors open. Their solution to this obstacle was quality and it worked. Had Marvel been able to release the troves of titles they had in the past, we may never have seen the richness of character development that ensued..... but rather a continued flood of watered down formulaic "throw away" escapism that had filled the newsstands for the prior decade. Maybe D.C. actually did Marvel a favor with their heavy handed approach. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Interesting! I hadn't considered that, but it makes a ton of sense. Even with the limited titles they had, Stan and Jack had more than they could handle. When Kirby was able to pare down to his 3 favorites, (FF, Thor and Cap) things really got great!

[KirbyJack]

Totally agreed

 

I also believe that but for distribution "restrictions," Marvel would have added war titles to help Sgt. Fury take on DC's 5 warbooks. It's a testament to Sgt. Fury as a character and the popularity of the war genre at the time that Marvel gave a war character his own book before Ant-Man, Thor, Iron Man, etc. They could easily have started Sgt. Fury in an anthology and given one of those superheroes their own title. Another reason why Sgt. Fury 1 is underscored in terms of what the book meant to Marvel in those early critical Silver Age years. Sgt. Fury took on DC's Big 5 by himself- no small feat.

 

I'm not sure about this, but wasn't Fury allowed to go to print because it was a war book and not superhero? I thought I read that here ( perhaps from rodan57?).

[bronze johnny]

Totally agreed

 

I also believe that but for distribution "restrictions," Marvel would have added war titles to help Sgt. Fury take on DC's 5 warbooks. It's a testament to Sgt. Fury as a character and the popularity of the war genre at the time that Marvel gave a war character his own book before Ant-Man, Thor, Iron Man, etc. They could easily have started Sgt. Fury in an anthology and given one of those superheroes their own title. Another reason why Sgt. Fury 1 is underscored in terms of what the book meant to Marvel in those early critical Silver Age years. Sgt. Fury took on DC's Big 5 by himself- no small feat.

 

I'm not sure about this, but wasn't Fury allowed to go to print because it was a war book and not superhero? I thought I read that here ( perhaps from rodan57?).

 

Yes, Marvel wanted a war book. DC had a monopoly on the war genre comics with its Big 5. Adding a successful war book was another brilliant move on the part of Marvel.

[kimik]

I can't believe the first appearance of Green Goblin is receiving less love than the 1st Surfer/Galactus. Tell me when either of those characters pulled off something as significant as this:

 

 

 

 

[trmoore54]

Enough of this prattle...bring on 16-18...

[1koko]

Enough of this prattle...bring on 16-18...

 

in 10 mins.......

[1koko]

Voted out:

 

19th TTA #27

20th ASM #14

21st OAAW #83