Opinions On Restoration

[PovertyRow]

restoring the book from the restoration thus making it restoration either way..?

 

Exactly. Hence my mind boggle.

[murph0]

I can hear it boggling as we speak ;p

 

Brian

[comicinvestor-migration]

Restoration removal is like a prostitute becoming a born-again virgin; she can talk til the cows come home, but it don't make it so.

[UnrulyAppendage]

While this is an interesting topic and I can see both sides, it really comes down to what the market will determine for a restored comic, regardless of extent of restoration. We can have another ten page debate on the different levels of restoration, but it doesn't matter. What matters is what somebody is willing to pay and that is the value of the comic. The buyer should be informed of any type of apperance enhancing work regardless of degree. The buyer will determine the price for the comic. To put things in perspective, a NM unrestored ASM #1 would be worth cover price to someone outside the comic collecting community. The value of a comic is what someone is willing to pay, and an informed collector will make their own judgment of what a restored comic is worth.

[Joanna]

I have a Golden Age book that I purchased in the early 90's that was sold as unrestored. But I've seen some people mention that if there is a sort of 'red' look to the inside cover, then something has been done to it. I paid a lot for this book, and it has that red look. I'm now assuming I got taken, and it is restored. Can anyone tell me what that red look means in terms of what was done to it?

[drbanner]

It's probably ink migration from the cover...is the cover red? If not, is the cover heavily colored? Red ink tends to bleed (commonly seen on the front of white-covered bronze age books w/thin cover stock), and red inks are used to produce many colors other than red. Anyhow, I've seen this on lots of golden age books.

 

Now, it could also be ink migration caused by a chemical wash, which is somtimes detectable by smelling the paper, but is more detectable through the change in texture of the paper.

[Joanna]

Aha! So it's possible that it's not restored, it's just... bleeding? Injured? Got in a tussle with a Flash Comics in it's youth or something?

 

Thank you, drbanner! That makes me feel better. At least there's a shot it's not washed.

 

-- Joanna

[PovertyRow]

So it's possible that it's not restored, it's just... bleeding? Injured?

 

Just another confirmation. This is not uncommon. I have several books with the red staining on tne inside cover. It's actually fairly common. Sometimes you can track it to image shapes on the adjoining surfaces.

[chromium]

I believe this thread is the first mention of "pressing" on the boards.

 

Overstreet has it as a "cameo appearance"

[PovertyRow]

I was drinking a LOT more in those daze!!!

[kc120us]

Great thread, POV. made for some interetsting thought and discussion.

[trmoore54]

People spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a comic realize the inherent value and scarcity of an untouched gem. Investors outside the hobby are scared of restored books (and rightly so), collectors avoid them, and they are only saleable at depressed Guide values. Many on here state they "don't mind restored books" but an extremely low price is definitely part of the equation.

 

No matter how you slice it, anything but a 100% original, unaltered and untouched NM+ book (or what CGC *ahem* states is original) will never get the big bucks and I only see this downward trend getting worse.

 

This is the negative to the CGC high-grade windfall, that low-to-mid-grade comics, and restored / altered books will continue to lose value on a daily basis. It's all about getting the very best, and no one in their right mind looks at a restored book that way.

 

I disagree to a certain extent...HI-GRADE Resto books, certainly 9.0 and better, for sought after books and keys will continue to rise as people like myself, unwilling to pay 5 and 6 figures for the book in unrestored grade can have a beautiful copy for their collection at a fraction of the price. I know this is a somewhat skewed example, but you could get a 9.0-ish AF 15 a few years back, less than 5 years, for about $2500...that same book today is going for $5-10K.

 

I think these debates are somewhat funny...covert resto for scam-sake and profiteering is a crime...disclosed resto is for anyone who wants to pay the going price...many people seem to ultimately debate this issue as a moral issue...as if restoring a book is a sin or something...like I said, funny...

[trmoore54]

>>Restoration is cheating, especially when it factors into sales and is usually synonymous nowadays with seller fraud/misrepresentation of goods.<<

 

Jesus doesn't ANYONE know what I am talking about? Have I said a restored book with non-invasive processes should sell for the same amount and not have the restoration revealed? I specificaly said it SHOULD be revealed but not on that colored label. Or did you miss that? Tell me if I DID say that the non-invasive restoration should be slip-streamed and I will buy your entire collection for 10x guide. And I will kiss every book in your collection as I pay for it. There is a HUGE TREMENDOUS CONSIDERABLE difference between a simple pressing, spine roll removal or dry cleaning and a piece replacement, tear repair, inpainting, leaf forming etc. If you cannot see that - well I certainly am not gonna convince you.

 

And I ALSO said that the restoration of these non-invasive processes should be revelaed on the label. So where the hell is the cheating?

 

Man am I pissed. They should rename this the Comic Investors Who do Not Care About Anytyhing Except A Profit Forum.

 

But I shall remain here.

 

I need to get through this whole thread but so far, philosophically, I couldn't AGREE with you more...I just left a post stating how generally amused I am by people treating this as a moral issue...you have clearly separated the issues...you're dealing with a lot of emotional people in this forum, especially when it comes to this topic...

[trmoore54]

Okay, I am new here, but have been in comics for over 30 years. I was around when books were worked on and not advertised. I was around when this whole thing of "restoration" came to light. For what it's worth....here's what I think. Unless the book in question is very valuable....$1000 or better, if it's had anything done to it, it's garbage. The $1000 mark is arbitrary. What's valuable to some is paltry to others. Trying to compare 400 year old original works of art to comics printed in the 100,000's is retarted. Tell you what...go find the original art to Action 1, then we can talk. How can you think that a comic of that stature restored to vf/nm should be worth an untouched, true vf/nm. Give me a break. I have thrown away books that had work done to them (good or bad) that if untouched still would have been worth $50 or $60. Look at the SanFrans that Wilson worked on. They don't come close to the value of untouched beautiful SanFrans.

 

 

-- this is just my opinion and not that of others working at this station --

 

He never stated it should be "worth" the same amount...all of these discussions never seem to focus on the issue philosophically, only about the money...he's saying in this context everything should be disclosed...he's not saying the restored VF/NM should be worth the same in the market...but from a collecting standpoint, maybe you'd rather have a VF/NM restored copy to stare at than a 4.0 unrestored or whaterver...IMO I would...

[trmoore54]

Of course it makes a difference. Take 3 copies of a book. One is an unrestored VF, one is a restored VF with a small amount of color touch, and one is a restored VF with pieces added and cover re-glossed. If sold on Ebay or at a convention, which of the 3 will receive the lowest price (in your opinion)? Actually, you don't need to answer, because according to you, both of the restored books will sell for the same amount.

 

He didn't say that...

[trmoore54]

Processes like inpainting, leaf forming and tear seals are radical enough to earn the CGC restoration label. But spine roll removal, pressing and dry cleaning? Nah. Thoughts?

 

There is a distinction in your examples above between "preservation" techniques, and "restoration" techniques, but unfortunately, there is no difference in the CGC-labeling. So, all purple labels are grouped together and suffer the same price resistance, but the smart collectors know that there's a big difference between a "restored" book with pieces replaced and color touched, and a "preserved" book.

 

As a collector of Gold, Silver, and Bronze Age, I can tell you under no uncertain terms that restoration is not looked down upon in the Golden Age market nearly as much as it is on Silver/Bronze/Modern. Of course Darth is going to abhor restoration (as he should), he deals in brand-spanking new books! Same for CI and his Bronze Age Marvels...these books should not be touched and are plentiful in unrestored grade.

 

Finally, who do you think is buying restored books at rock-bottom prices - collectors, not investors! Much of the argument above is how restored books are not a good investment and that might be true, but when a Golden Age collector has a choice of a restored book that they can afford and no book (either because one is not available, or because a decent copy is prohibitively expensive), the collector pulls the trigger, while the comic investor walks away...

 

Well (and sanely) stated!

[Ze-man]

I must admit I nearly enjoyed reading through Pov's early posts defining his stance on how various restoration processes affect desirability and pricing as much as I have watching you reply to multiple posts made 5 years ago.

 

 

What was once old is indeed new again. And no I am not being sarcastic, I really did enjoy it.

 

Ze-

[Aman619]

I was in near tears reading poor Pov frustratingly fighting off ridiculous jabbing posts.... Pov. we love ya buddy!

[PovertyRow]

I was in near tears reading poor Pov frustratingly fighting off ridiculous jabbing posts.... Pov. we love ya buddy!

 

 

Remember it was only 14 days from when I registered or even SAW these boards that I posted this. I got a good bit of skin toughening reeeel fast.

[trmoore54]

I must admit I nearly enjoyed reading through Pov's early posts defining his stance on how various restoration processes affect desirability and pricing as much as I have watching you reply to multiple posts made 5 years ago.

 

 

What was once old is indeed new again. And no I am not being sarcastic, I really did enjoy it.

 

Ze-

 

Well...I am a relative newbie here...made my first post less than 6 months ago...