Notice of HoS nomination and poll for munkalunk

[comix4fun]

I've never understood why people think they should get grading fees back. That is a choice that you made, not the seller. Would you expect your money back if you paid:

 

(1) to get the book framed

(2) to get the book lacquered

(3) to get the book origami-ed into a flock of tiny pterodactyls

 

What you choose to do with the book is on you - unless you discuss it beforehand.

 

 

Except in a fraudulent inducement situation, right?

 

Where the buyers actions were entirely brought on by the fraud.

[Jeffro.]

This is my opinion. You are welcome to agree with it or not.

 

I feel if you buy a book from a dealer, and it comes back stabbed or trimmed, he should refund you the money for the book and stabbing fees.

However, if I buy a book from a collector and don't detect the restoration myself, I'm not sure I would hold that collector responsible.

It's a part of buying raw books. It's why raw books sell for less than stabbed books.

 

Your opinion may vary.

 

That would be a valid, well thought out, fact-based opinion, if it wasn't completely a misapplied analogy.

 

This isn't undetected restoration..it's fraud.

 

In any circumstance, flea market, ebay, this board, comic con, dealer, part time seller, collector to collector, when one party seeks to mislead the other to induce them to purchase something that is intentionally not what was promised ALL of the responsibility for what follows falls on the person doing the misleading.

 

When someone buys something sold under false pretenses, and they rely on the fraudulent claims as if they were valid, their damages have been expanded through no fault of their own. The reliance was created by the fraudulent act. The slabbing fees were incurred as a direct result of the seller's claim of a legitimate multi-cover book.

 

It's fine to have opinions, but if you're going to make a comparison make sure it's not Apples to Oranges.

 

And there's no stabbing involved

[budsbundy]

This is my opinion. You are welcome to agree with it or not.

 

I feel if you buy a book from a dealer, and it comes back stabbed or trimmed, he should refund you the money for the book and stabbing fees.

However, if I buy a book from a collector and don't detect the restoration myself, I'm not sure I would hold that collector responsible.

It's a part of buying raw books. It's why raw books sell for less than stabbed books.

 

Your opinion may vary.

 

That would be a valid, well thought out, fact-based opinion, if it wasn't completely a misapplied analogy.

 

This isn't undetected restoration..it's fraud.

 

In any circumstance, flea market, ebay, this board, comic con, dealer, part time seller, collector to collector, when one party seeks to mislead the other to induce them to purchase something that is intentionally not what was promised ALL of the responsibility for what follows falls on the person doing the misleading.

 

When someone buys something sold under false pretenses, and they rely on the fraudulent claims as if they were valid, their damages have been expanded through no fault of their own. The reliance was created by the fraudulent act. The slabbing fees were incurred as a direct result of the seller's claim of a legitimate multi-cover book.

 

It's fine to have opinions, but if you're going to make a comparison make sure it's not Apples to Oranges.

 

And there's no stabbing involved

That only happens at Phils parking lot showdowns

[seanfingh]

I've never understood why people think they should get grading fees back. That is a choice that you made, not the seller. Would you expect your money back if you paid:

 

(1) to get the book framed

(2) to get the book lacquered

(3) to get the book origami-ed into a flock of tiny pterodactyls

 

What you choose to do with the book is on you - unless you discuss it beforehand.

 

 

Except in a fraudulent inducement situation, right?

 

Where the buyers actions were entirely brought on by the fraud.

 

I sort of stumbled into this thread so, yeah. It was more of a musing than anything else. For the guy that was fraudulently creating and selling frankenbooks, if it flows from the fraud, you get paid.

[gcstomp]

to get the book origami-ed into a flock of tiny pterodactyls

 

O I would pay good money to have someone do this to my book. But yeah, grading fees is an ambitious ask, though I guess you could ask for whatever you want. Paypal wont side with you on 3rd party grading fees after the fact.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

I've never understood why people think they should get grading fees back. That is a choice that you made, not the seller. Would you expect your money back if you paid:

 

(1) to get the book framed

(2) to get the book lacquered

(3) to get the book origami-ed into a flock of tiny pterodactyls

 

What you choose to do with the book is on you - unless you discuss it beforehand.

 

 

Except in a fraudulent inducement situation, right?

 

Where the buyers actions were entirely brought on by the fraud.

 

I sort of stumbled into this thread so, yeah. It was more of a musing than anything else. For the guy that was fraudulently creating and selling frankenbooks, if it flows from the fraud, you get paid.

 

So if I had a book encased in carbonite and sent into low earth orbit using a rail gun for safe-keeping, would I get my money back?

 

Also, if a Space-X mission was needed to retrieve the book for court evidence, would that be covered as well?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Doktor]

Seems pretty ethically cut & dry to me

 

Mistakes = buyer beware transaction

 

Fraud = seller is liable for losses incurred by the buyer that follows the fraud

 

Without the fraud happening, the losses are never incurred.

[newshane]

Why are we still talking about grading fees?

 

I said it once and I guess I'll say it again:

 

I never asked for a return on grading fees in any of my direct communications with the offender.

 

I mentioned it in my very first post regarding the situation, but that was more of an emotional response to the embarrassment of being publicly played by a scam artist.

 

I asked for a full refund of my original purchase price plus shipping and that's what I got.

 

As far as Shadroch goes, his analogy falls flat because we are dealing with PURPOSEFUL FRAUD in this situation, not undetected restoration or grading complaints.

 

Not sure why he wants to stick up for the other guy in this situation. Totally clueless, in fact...from bashing me about something I didn't do (ask the guy for a refund on grading fees) to voting "no" on the HOS nomination.

 

I guess what he did was okay because I only spent $20? What about the guy on eBay that spend almost $200? Or the other victims?

 

I guess it's okay if he continues to scam people? I mean, after all, he coughed up $20 but got away with over $500. That should make everything okay, right?

 

 

[accessndx]

I know there was a lot of controversy about PL or HOS for the scammer du jour....

 

Would it be helpful in these cases to just have a thread for dubious douchebags?

 

No repercussions except a big scarlet D branded on them for everyone to see. Covers a whole range of offenses that don't meet the criteria for PL or HOS.

[seanfingh]

Why are we still talking about grading fees?

 

I said it once and I guess I'll say it again:

 

I never asked for a return on grading fees in any of my direct communications with the offender.

 

I mentioned it in my very first post regarding the situation, but that was more of an emotional response to the embarrassment of being publicly played by a scam artist.

 

I asked for a full refund of my original purchase price plus shipping and that's what I got.

 

As far as Shadroch goes, his analogy falls flat because we are dealing with PURPOSEFUL FRAUD in this situation, not undetected restoration or grading complaints.

 

Not sure why he wants to stick up for the other guy in this situation. Totally clueless, in fact...from bashing me about something I didn't do (ask the guy for a refund on grading fees) to voting "no" on the HOS nomination.

 

I guess what he did was okay because I only spent $20? What about the guy on eBay that spend almost $200? Or the other victims?

 

I guess it's okay if he continues to scam people? I mean, after all, he coughed up $20 but got away with over $500. That should make everything okay, right?

 

 

This post may come off as a little strident to some readers.

[greggy]

This is my opinion. You are welcome to agree with it or not.

 

I feel if you buy a book from a dealer, and it comes back stabbed or trimmed, he should refund you the money for the book and stabbing fees.

However, if I buy a book from a collector and don't detect the restoration myself, I'm not sure I would hold that collector responsible.

It's a part of buying raw books. It's why raw books sell for less than stabbed books.

 

Your opinion may vary.

 

That would be a valid, well thought out, fact-based opinion, if it wasn't completely a misapplied analogy.

 

This isn't undetected restoration..it's fraud.

 

In any circumstance, flea market, ebay, this board, comic con, dealer, part time seller, collector to collector, when one party seeks to mislead the other to induce them to purchase something that is intentionally not what was promised ALL of the responsibility for what follows falls on the person doing the misleading.

 

When someone buys something sold under false pretenses, and they rely on the fraudulent claims as if they were valid, their damages have been expanded through no fault of their own. The reliance was created by the fraudulent act. The slabbing fees were incurred as a direct result of the seller's claim of a legitimate multi-cover book.

 

It's fine to have opinions, but if you're going to make a comparison make sure it's not Apples to Oranges.

See, you actually make some logical sense when you're not posting about LBJ.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

[comix4fun]

I've never understood why people think they should get grading fees back. That is a choice that you made, not the seller. Would you expect your money back if you paid:

 

(1) to get the book framed

(2) to get the book lacquered

(3) to get the book origami-ed into a flock of tiny pterodactyls

 

What you choose to do with the book is on you - unless you discuss it beforehand.

 

 

Except in a fraudulent inducement situation, right?

 

Where the buyers actions were entirely brought on by the fraud.

 

I sort of stumbled into this thread so, yeah. It was more of a musing than anything else. For the guy that was fraudulently creating and selling frankenbooks, if it flows from the fraud, you get paid.

 

 

That's why I wanted to clarify before shad thought you were taking his case on his behalf.

[comix4fun]

This is my opinion. You are welcome to agree with it or not.

 

I feel if you buy a book from a dealer, and it comes back stabbed or trimmed, he should refund you the money for the book and stabbing fees.

However, if I buy a book from a collector and don't detect the restoration myself, I'm not sure I would hold that collector responsible.

It's a part of buying raw books. It's why raw books sell for less than stabbed books.

 

Your opinion may vary.

 

That would be a valid, well thought out, fact-based opinion, if it wasn't completely a misapplied analogy.

 

This isn't undetected restoration..it's fraud.

 

In any circumstance, flea market, ebay, this board, comic con, dealer, part time seller, collector to collector, when one party seeks to mislead the other to induce them to purchase something that is intentionally not what was promised ALL of the responsibility for what follows falls on the person doing the misleading.

 

When someone buys something sold under false pretenses, and they rely on the fraudulent claims as if they were valid, their damages have been expanded through no fault of their own. The reliance was created by the fraudulent act. The slabbing fees were incurred as a direct result of the seller's claim of a legitimate multi-cover book.

 

It's fine to have opinions, but if you're going to make a comparison make sure it's not Apples to Oranges.

See, you actually make some logical sense when you're not posting about LBJ.

 

[techtre2003]

I know there was a lot of controversy about PL or HOS for the scammer du jour....

 

Would it be helpful in these cases to just have a thread for dubious douchebags?

 

No repercussions except a big scarlet D branded on them for everyone to see. Covers a whole range of offenses that don't meet the criteria for PL or HOS.

 

That's what the HOS is though. Being on the HOS doesn't stop one from using the site or even buying or selling here; it's just a warning to others.

[accessndx]

I know there was a lot of controversy about PL or HOS for the scammer du jour....

 

Would it be helpful in these cases to just have a thread for dubious douchebags?

 

No repercussions except a big scarlet D branded on them for everyone to see. Covers a whole range of offenses that don't meet the criteria for PL or HOS.

 

That's what the HOS is though. Being on the HOS doesn't stop one from using the site or even buying or selling here; it's just a warning to others.

 

I'm no expert on the rules relating to the HOS, but I thought someone raised the issue that since the offense hadn't taken place on the boards the offender wasn't qualified to be in the HOS. If that is/was the case, then I thought another thread that was broader in scope would suffice. Of course my assumptions and interpretations may be incorrect.

[techtre2003]

I know there was a lot of controversy about PL or HOS for the scammer du jour....

 

Would it be helpful in these cases to just have a thread for dubious douchebags?

 

No repercussions except a big scarlet D branded on them for everyone to see. Covers a whole range of offenses that don't meet the criteria for PL or HOS.

 

That's what the HOS is though. Being on the HOS doesn't stop one from using the site or even buying or selling here; it's just a warning to others.

 

I'm no expert on the rules relating to the HOS, but I thought someone raised the issue that since the offense hadn't taken place on the boards the offender wasn't qualified to be in the HOS. If that is/was the case, then I thought another thread that was broader in scope would suffice. Of course my assumptions and interpretations may be incorrect.

 

As long as it's between 2 board members it doesn't matter where it happened. There was a discussion about it in the probation discussions thread and the rules were linked there.

[divad]

I know there was a lot of controversy about PL or HOS for the scammer du jour....

 

Would it be helpful in these cases to just have a thread for dubious douchebags?

 

No repercussions except a big scarlet D branded on them for everyone to see. Covers a whole range of offenses that don't meet the criteria for PL or HOS.

 

That's what the HOS is though. Being on the HOS doesn't stop one from using the site or even buying or selling here; it's just a warning to others.

 

I'm no expert on the rules relating to the HOS, but I thought someone raised the issue that since the offense hadn't taken place on the boards the offender wasn't qualified to be in the HOS. If that is/was the case, then I thought another thread that was broader in scope would suffice. Of course my assumptions and interpretations may be incorrect.

 

I may not know how to define it, but I know it when I see it.

[RockMyAmadeus]

This is my opinion. You are welcome to agree with it or not.

 

I feel if you buy a book from a dealer, and it comes back stabbed or trimmed, he should refund you the money for the book and stabbing fees.

However, if I buy a book from a collector and don't detect the restoration myself, I'm not sure I would hold that collector responsible.

It's a part of buying raw books. It's why raw books sell for less than stabbed books.

 

Your opinion may vary.

 

Stabbing books is a no no

 

 

Depends. Was it a Jack The Ripper variant?

 

[HarveySwick]

A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

HOS/PL Rules