Trimmed

[Ghastly542454]

I submitted my Vault Of Horror #12 (first issue) to CGC and although it is scheduled to be graded, I checked it and it said "TRIMMED". I suppose it will now definitely get a purple label? I'm pretty unhappy because the book looks beautiful and I saw no indication that it was trimmed.

 

[jimjum12]

I submitted my Vault Of Horror #12 (first issue) to CGC and although it is scheduled to be graded, I checked it and it said "TRIMMED". I suppose it will now definitely get a purple label? I'm pretty unhappy because the book looks beautiful and I saw no indication that it was trimmed.

 

 

 

...they have been known to make mistakes in regards to trimming..... it may not be. It also may have only a very small amount done, say, an inch long section on only one edge of the cover..... and sometimes on the back cover, which many people overlook. Trimming is the one procedure that they still woefully neglect to add any details, or level of severity...... that is a significant book and is certainly not worthless. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Ghastly542454]

To me at least, I don't see any trimming on the front cover. So it may very well be the back. When it is returned if I don't see anything , I will probably break it out of the holder. Sad because I paid for Express grading.??

[Mio]

As above, they make mistakes re: trimming. I recall reading on the boards about a mini-scandal in relation to trimmed books sqeaking through some time ago. Afterwards, CGC errored on the side of caution.

 

You can ask them to take another look, or get a second opinion...

[JollyComics]

Use the back board or 90 degree angle. You can check for trimming. Also check the pages to see how close the art board to the edges. Last week, I found FF #50 at the flea market. It asked for $55 even the book looked Fine condition. I checked for the centerfold if it was loose or missed but I saw the edge were too close to the art and story. The book was planted against the back board. The top and right edges were trimmed. The dealer didn't know but I found three of them were trimmed too.

 

 

[ickwinzs]

I had the same thing happen to me this past week I checked on one of my invoices and my asm 50 said trimmed, I hadn't a clue. I called them and they said yup trimmed on 2 sides and its headed for a purple label.

[sterlingcomics]

I submitted my Vault Of Horror #12 (first issue) to CGC and although it is scheduled to be graded, I checked it and it said "TRIMMED". I suppose it will now definitely get a purple label? I'm pretty unhappy because the book looks beautiful and I saw no indication that it was trimmed.

 

 

 

...they have been known to make mistakes in regards to trimming..... it may not be. It also may have only a very small amount done, say, an inch long section on only one edge of the cover..... and sometimes on the back cover, which many people overlook. Trimming is the one procedure that they still woefully neglect to add any details, or level of severity...... that is a significant book and is certainly not worthless. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

If you don't believe him...read The Jason Ewert threads.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

While yes, CGC has made mistakes regarding trimming, mistakes are likely the exception not the rule.

 

I would also suspect that collectors miss trimming FAR FAR more often than CGC.improperly labels an untouched book "Trimmed"

 

[jimjum12]

CGC is very good at what they do. I've removed a LOT of books from slabs and almost always find the reason for the decisions they made.... and many times it's not apparent through the slab. This particular book is a 1950's comic, when production standards and QC were at an all time low. Many books from this period "look" trimmed yet aren't. Unfortunately, this type of thing isn't easily observable from a scan or picture. The OP should get a second opinion from another resto expert if they have doubts. I do know one thing... when CGC errs in regards to trimming, it will almost always be with a book that isn't trimmed..... but these instances are very uncommon. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[ThothAmon]

Like the thread as I have often wondered how many of my books were sold to me with undisclosed trimming. I compared your copy to the Gaines file copy sold at Heritage in 2002 for almost 30k. What I found is that the books were bound and cut somewhat differently to begin with. Your copy has more artwork at the bottom and the Gaines copy more at the top. No trimming there in my opinion. The left side of your copy has slightly more of the back cover exposed and less of the right side artwork exposed. In my opinion the slightly off center binding, which exposed more of the center black line and back of your copy on the front cover, does not account for the more significant loss of art on the right side of the cover as compared to the Gaines copy. Whether, this means your book was actually trimmed after the fact is up for argument but would most likely explain why CGC's verdict was trimmed. For me the question is how exact was the printing process during the trimming stage? If a wrap can be misplaced by up to a 1/2 inch or so, what makes us think that all of these books were cut perfectly? The whole process stinks of cya.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

In my opinion the slightly off center binding, which exposed more of the center black line and back of your copy on the front cover, does not account for the more significant loss of art on the right side of the cover as compared to the Gaines copy. Whether, this means your book was actually trimmed after the fact is up for argument but would most likely explain why CGC's verdict was trimmed. For me the question is how exact was the printing process during the trimming stage? If a wrap can be misplaced by up to a 1/2 inch or so, what makes us think that all of these books were cut perfectly? The whole process stinks of cya.

 

The visual differences between a newly submitted book and a Gaines/Church or other pedigree copy, likely play very little role in the vast majority of CGC's determinations of trimming.

[ThothAmon]

In my opinion the slightly off center binding, which exposed more of the center black line and back of your copy on the front cover, does not account for the more significant loss of art on the right side of the cover as compared to the Gaines copy. Whether, this means your book was actually trimmed after the fact is up for argument but would most likely explain why CGC's verdict was trimmed. For me the question is how exact was the printing process during the trimming stage? If a wrap can be misplaced by up to a 1/2 inch or so, what makes us think that all of these books were cut perfectly? The whole process stinks of cya.

 

The visual differences between a newly submitted book and a Gaines/Church or other pedigree copy, likely play very little role in the vast majority of CGC's determinations of trimming.

Not my point really. Since I am unable to measure the size of the cover I can only estimate based upon comparing the two photos. From the binding crease it appears that the Gaines book is wider than the "trimmed" example. If true, my question is whether the dimensions of the entire cover are always consistent or the same issue could have some variance on the dimensions based upon an inexact printing process?

[Dick Pontoon]

Use the back board or 90 degree angle. You can check for trimming. Also check the pages to see how close the art board to the edges. Last week, I found FF #50 at the flea market. It asked for $55 even the book looked Fine condition. I checked for the centerfold if it was loose or missed but I saw the edge were too close to the art and story. The book was planted against the back board. The top and right edges were trimmed. The dealer didn't know but I found three of them were trimmed too.

 

 

It’s very common and even typical for older comics, especially Silver Age, not to be cut perfectly square. Holding a book to a backing board or 90 degree angle is not going to determine if a book has been trimmed with any measure of accuracy.

[jimjum12]

Use the back board or 90 degree angle. You can check for trimming. Also check the pages to see how close the art board to the edges. Last week, I found FF #50 at the flea market. It asked for $55 even the book looked Fine condition. I checked for the centerfold if it was loose or missed but I saw the edge were too close to the art and story. The book was planted against the back board. The top and right edges were trimmed. The dealer didn't know but I found three of them were trimmed too.

 

 

It’s very common and even typical for older comics, especially Silver Age, not to be cut perfectly square. Holding a book to a backing board or 90 degree angle is not going to determine if a book has been trimmed with any measure of accuracy.

 

..... true. And the size of one issue may vary from that of a preceding or following issue and sometimes within the print run of the same issue. I'm not sure where E.C. books were printed, but the 50's and early 60's Atlas/Marvel books were especially prone to erratic printing. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Ghastly542454]

Like the thread as I have often wondered how many of my books were sold to me with undisclosed trimming. I compared your copy to the Gaines file copy sold at Heritage in 2002 for almost 30k. What I found is that the books were bound and cut somewhat differently to begin with. Your copy has more artwork at the bottom and the Gaines copy more at the top. No trimming there in my opinion. The left side of your copy has slightly more of the back cover exposed and less of the right side artwork exposed. In my opinion the slightly off center binding, which exposed more of the center black line and back of your copy on the front cover, does not account for the more significant loss of art on the right side of the cover as compared to the Gaines copy. Whether, this means your book was actually trimmed after the fact is up for argument but would most likely explain why CGC's verdict was trimmed. For me the question is how exact was the printing process during the trimming stage? If a wrap can be misplaced by up to a 1/2 inch or so, what makes us think that all of these books were cut perfectly? The whole process stinks of cya.

 

Unfortunately, CGC says that all 3 sides were trimmed.

[thehumantorch]

Like the thread as I have often wondered how many of my books were sold to me with undisclosed trimming. I compared your copy to the Gaines file copy sold at Heritage in 2002 for almost 30k. What I found is that the books were bound and cut somewhat differently to begin with. Your copy has more artwork at the bottom and the Gaines copy more at the top. No trimming there in my opinion. The left side of your copy has slightly more of the back cover exposed and less of the right side artwork exposed. In my opinion the slightly off center binding, which exposed more of the center black line and back of your copy on the front cover, does not account for the more significant loss of art on the right side of the cover as compared to the Gaines copy. Whether, this means your book was actually trimmed after the fact is up for argument but would most likely explain why CGC's verdict was trimmed. For me the question is how exact was the printing process during the trimming stage? If a wrap can be misplaced by up to a 1/2 inch or so, what makes us think that all of these books were cut perfectly? The whole process stinks of cya.

 

Unfortunately, CGC says that all 3 sides were trimmed.

 

Sorry to hear about the trimming. Books that I've had in my collection for 30 plus years have come back trimmed and it's painful. It was a very common practice in the past and there are a lot of these books out there in collections.

[Ghastly542454]

There was more than just the 3 sides that were trimmed. There was also color touch and reinforcement. A 6.0 C-3.

 

[Mio]

That's bad luck, then. Sorry to hear it. But if you are unsatisfied with the book now, I would be happy to take it off your hands!

[Ghastly542454]

I might be willing to give it a new home if I could get what I have in it.

[rjpb]

Sorry to read about this. One of the reasons many are reluctant to buy mid-high grade copies of more valuable books raw. Trimming can be hard to detect, but if it's a 3.0, the resulting loss in value is fairly minimal, whereas on a 8.0 book it can be devastating.

 

With GA it's even tougher due to inconsistent production quality. I've seen Timelys that were not trimmed after production, but were brutally chopped down during the printing process and look less attractive than other copies of the same book that end up in PLOD slab due to a slight edge trim ( or sometimes just due to an interior overhang piece being trimmed to "clean up" the books appearance), and have seen a couple which look far more like miscuts than trims, but I'll defer to CGCs expertise.