Outrage!!! Cho leaves Wonder Woman

[Prince Namor]

There is no denying that a great book is a synergy between the artist and the writer, they depend on each other. One of my favorite runs of all time is the X-Men from 96 to 142, and a lot of that was because Claremont, Cockrum, and later Byrne were almost in perfect sync. The WW is not the same situation because we are talking about a for hire cover artist here doing an alternate cover. The writer and interior artist may be the perfect combination, but that is not relevant to this issue. The only reason a cover artists is hired is to bring shelf appeal to sell a book, it has nothing to do with the interior book quality.This goes triple for variant covers. And great covers will only sell bad books for brief periods, while the opposite can be true. Good stories with bad covers will have steady sales.

 

Regardless. Rucka's contract specifically states he has full editorial control over the book including variant covers.

 

 

[drotto]

There is no denying that a great book is a synergy between the artist and the writer, they depend on each other. One of my favorite runs of all time is the X-Men from 96 to 142, and a lot of that was because Claremont, Cockrum, and later Byrne were almost in perfect sync. The WW is not the same situation because we are talking about a for hire cover artist here doing an alternate cover. The writer and interior artist may be the perfect combination, but that is not relevant to this issue. The only reason a cover artists is hired is to bring shelf appeal to sell a book, it has nothing to do with the interior book quality.This goes triple for variant covers. And great covers will only sell bad books for brief periods, while the opposite can be true. Good stories with bad covers will have steady sales.

 

Regardless. Rucka's contract specifically states he has full editorial control over the book including variant covers.

 

 

And if he was so unhappy with them, why were any of them published? Especially if he had full control.

[Prince Namor]

There is no denying that a great book is a synergy between the artist and the writer, they depend on each other. One of my favorite runs of all time is the X-Men from 96 to 142, and a lot of that was because Claremont, Cockrum, and later Byrne were almost in perfect sync. The WW is not the same situation because we are talking about a for hire cover artist here doing an alternate cover. The writer and interior artist may be the perfect combination, but that is not relevant to this issue. The only reason a cover artists is hired is to bring shelf appeal to sell a book, it has nothing to do with the interior book quality.This goes triple for variant covers. And great covers will only sell bad books for brief periods, while the opposite can be true. Good stories with bad covers will have steady sales.

 

Regardless. Rucka's contract specifically states he has full editorial control over the book including variant covers.

 

 

And if he was so unhappy with them, why were any of them published? Especially if he had full control.

 

Ask Cho. He's the one saying Rucka was unhappy.

 

Obviously changes were made, Rucka approved them and they got published.

 

Cho didn't like being told how to do it. So he quit.

 

He's going to make it seem as horrible as possible, because the average person can't imagine quiting a job where you get paid to draw a picture for $2000, just because they want you to 'do it a certain way'.

 

All i hear is:

 

[MetalPSI]

That pretty much sums it up. You don't like a job, quit. If you quit, STFU and get another job you do like.

 

Pretty simple. Acting like this, who wants to hire you? All a new employer is going to get is a huge ego and a headache. A lot are going to say, No Thanks. Next.

[rjrjr]

But, DC approved and apparently has published the first 6 covers. So what changed? If they were that bothered by them, none of the covers should have gone to press.

 

Without any further information, we don't really know what happened. Maybe cover 7 was over the top? Maybe one of the other 6 covers was the problem? We just don't know.

[sckao]

http://www.themarysue.com/frank-cho-wonder-woman/

 

We’ve reached out to Cho and Rucka for comments, and will update as necessary.

 

[uPDATE]: Cho has responded to our request for comment, and we’ve included his statement below.

 

Since you’re asking me a straight question, I’m going to answer honestly as possible from my point of view.

 

Wonder Woman was my dream job at DC Comics. I love and respect the character very much. When I was invited by DC to draw the 24 variant covers for Wonder Woman, I was ecstatic. I was told that I had complete freedom on the variant covers and the only person in charge of me was the senior art director, Mark Chiarello, who I greatly respect. Win-win for everyone.

 

Now the variant covers are handled by entirely separate editorial office than the rest of the books. I was given assurance that I would not have to deal with the Wonder Woman book writer or editor at all, and were told I would only be dealing with Mark Chiarello. So I came onboard and started working right away.

 

Everything went smoothly at first. I turned in my first batch of cover sketches and Chiarello approved them, and I started finishing and inking them ASAP since these were biweekly covers and we had limited time. Then Chiarello started getting art notes from Greg Rucka ordering him to tell me to alter and change things on the covers. (Remove arm band, make the skirt longer and wider to cover her up, showing too much skin, add the lasso here, etc.) Well, Chiarello and I were baffled and annoyed by Greg Rucka’s art change orders. More so, since the interior pages were showing the same amount or more skin than my variant covers. (For example: Issue #2, panel One, etc.) I requested that Greg Rucka back off and let me do my variant covers in peace. After all, these were minor and subjective changes. And let’s face it, being told by a non-artistic freelancer what I can and cannot draw didn’t sit too well with me.

 

Then things got ugly. Apparently unbeknownst to Chiarello and me, DC, for whatever reason, gave Greg Rucka complete and total editorial control on Wonder Woman including variant covers by contract. My promises of creative freedom were verbal. I think this is a case of complete miscommunication and things falling through the crack during the post-DC headquarter move to LA. Had I’ve known Greg Rucka had complete editorial control over the variant covers, I would have never came onboard Wonder Woman.

 

Since we were on the same team with the same goal – making great Wonder Woman comics, Mark Chiarello and I tried to reason with Greg Rucka to back off and let me do the variant covers in peace. But Rucka refused and tried to hammer me in line. Things escalated and got toxic very fast. The act of a freelance writer art directing me, overruling my senior art director, altering my artwork without consent was too much. I realized after Rucka’s problems with my Wonder Woman #3 variant cover, my excitement and desire for the project have completely disappeared and I decided to bow out quietly after I finish my Wonder Woman #4 variant cover. (This was around end of May.) But DC wanted me to stay and finish out #5 and #6 covers to give them some time to find my replacement.

 

So I stuck it out and tried to deal with the flagrant disrespect for six issues, and quietly stepped off until Bleeding Cool gave me little choice but to respond. They caught wind that there was some discord in the Wonder Woman office over my covers and was about to cast negative light on the wrong people. So I went public yesterday and set the story straight, correctly naming Greg Rucka as the source of the problem before the wrong information was published.

 

 

[rjrjr]

 

For whatever reason depicting violence in American culture is perfectly acceptable, but showing a naked body, or even a breast is considered awful. It is very easy to see this on TV daily. Look at the Walking Dead (a show I like, and I realize it is on AMC) can't show a naked body, but has decapitations, heads being smashed in, and blood splatter every episode and nobody cares. You can even go to more traditional network shows. Again, Gotham has many graphic scenes and the TV censors are OK with it, but they never show any nudity, even in the very briefest instance.

 

I have no idea why there is a different standard other than the puritanicle and religious history of the USA. But TV has been allowed to really push the envelope with violence in recent years, but showing sexuality still seems to push stronger reactions.

 

Where's the SJW's on that one? Go all crazy because of undergarments but don't bat an eye to brutality. I mean, it's not like there is an insane amount of violence btween religious groups, races, sexual genders and identities on a DAILY basis all over the world. But you know, panties....

 

 

If you need to see panties on a comic book character, there are plenty of examples of it out there. There is no shortage of GGA and Bad Girl Art on Comics these days or really at most of anytime over the last 80 years.

 

Rucka made his decision on THIS book. 'SJW' or whatever silly term has nothing to do with it. There's plenty of sex AND violence all over the comic book hobby. Rucka made a decision for what he wanted for THIS book.

 

Jimmy freakin' christmas on a popsicle stick, talk about feeling entitled.

 

An artist can't draw whatever he wants in anyway he wants for a major publisher on one of the oldest monthly published characters and still get paid for it.. Boo Hoo.

 

Go draw a Hellina cover.

 

You know there are depictions of naked people on the interior pages, right?

 

So? Not sure what that has to do with the cover which is used to sell a comic book.

[rjrjr]

To deny that there are many people who at one moment are preaching live and let live, and at the next are complaining that somebodies micro-aggressions hurt their feeling and they need a safe space, is just blind.

 

 

We are living in a giant contradiction, where people are claiming to promote and defend individual choices and liberties (which they absolutely should), while attempting to take away other people's liberties because they have a different viewpoint.

 

Oh for God's Sake. You're just playing, aren't you? You're just messing with me, right?

 

Dude, you are seriously ignorant about this subject. I'm not saying you don't have valid points about this Cho vs Rucka debate. You absolutely do but to flat out deny that this stuff is going on right now (and has been for a while) is just naive.

 

Spend some time watching this panel.

 

 

Better put on the tin foil hat!

[drotto]

To add some perspective. Does anyone have any interior shots as a way to compare to the cover? I do not have the issues in question and would like to see some of them. Cho is clearly making the claim in the follow up statement that his work was similar if not tamer than the interiors. It would not take long seeing both to see if his statement is valid.

[Revol]

Bye Felicia.

 

I'm surprised Cho has gotten any work recently with how he has been sexualising Disney and Warner Brothers IP on those 'Outrage' covers.

 

One of my abiding memories from London Comic Con this year was Frank Cho sitting alone at his table, no queue, nobody asking for his signature, while two young girls strode past, both dressed up as Spider Gwen, giggling with excitement at the new comics they had just bought. It pretty much summed it up. Here's two kids enjoying a fun character that they can relate to, while the guy who constantly has to feel the need to draw creepy covers involving that character and other female characters looks out of place and out of touch. His dude-bro frat schtick is done. It's creepy, unfunny and verging on dirty old man at this stage (just follow him on Facebook for proof of that).

 

And I am sure there are those asking why Adam Hughes gets a pass and Cho doesn't; AH draws women that are sexy, but ooze confidence, funny, smart and with personality. Again look at those Outrage covers, Cho's women are brainless airheads, the butt of the joke, submissive and pathetic (another reason he's a bad fit for a strong flagship character like Wonder Woman). And of course Hughes is just a better artist in general, Cho has essentially drawn the same face on the same small headed woman since the late 90s, just with different outfits. And now with added Serpieri style cross hatching of course.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

There is no denying that a great book is a synergy between the artist and the writer, they depend on each other. One of my favorite runs of all time is the X-Men from 96 to 142, and a lot of that was because Claremont, Cockrum, and later Byrne were almost in perfect sync. The WW is not the same situation because we are talking about a for hire cover artist here doing an alternate cover. The writer and interior artist may be the perfect combination, but that is not relevant to this issue. The only reason a cover artists is hired is to bring shelf appeal to sell a book, it has nothing to do with the interior book quality.This goes triple for variant covers. And great covers will only sell bad books for brief periods, while the opposite can be true. Good stories with bad covers will have steady sales.

 

Regardless. Rucka's contract specifically states he has full editorial control over the book including variant covers.

 

 

And if he was so unhappy with them, why were any of them published? Especially if he had full control.

 

 

Because they were acceptable for publication.

 

Totally and completely irrespective of Rucka's emotional state.

 

Seems fairly obvious, no?

 

No hyperbole necessary.

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

http://www.themarysue.com/frank-cho-wonder-woman/

 

Weve reached out to Cho and Rucka for comments, and will update as necessary.

 

[uPDATE]: Cho has responded to our request for comment, and weve included his statement below.

 

Since youre asking me a straight question, Im going to answer honestly as possible from my point of view.

 

Wonder Woman was my dream job at DC Comics. I love and respect the character very much. When I was invited by DC to draw the 24 variant covers for Wonder Woman, I was ecstatic. I was told that I had complete freedom on the variant covers and the only person in charge of me was the senior art director, Mark Chiarello, who I greatly respect. Win-win for everyone.

 

Now the variant covers are handled by entirely separate editorial office than the rest of the books. I was given assurance that I would not have to deal with the Wonder Woman book writer or editor at all, and were told I would only be dealing with Mark Chiarello. So I came onboard and started working right away.

 

Everything went smoothly at first. I turned in my first batch of cover sketches and Chiarello approved them, and I started finishing and inking them ASAP since these were biweekly covers and we had limited time. Then Chiarello started getting art notes from Greg Rucka ordering him to tell me to alter and change things on the covers. (Remove arm band, make the skirt longer and wider to cover her up, showing too much skin, add the lasso here, etc.) Well, Chiarello and I were baffled and annoyed by Greg Ruckas art change orders. More so, since the interior pages were showing the same amount or more skin than my variant covers. (For example: Issue #2, panel One, etc.) I requested that Greg Rucka back off and let me do my variant covers in peace. After all, these were minor and subjective changes. And lets face it, being told by a non-artistic freelancer what I can and cannot draw didnt sit too well with me.

 

Then things got ugly. Apparently unbeknownst to Chiarello and me, DC, for whatever reason, gave Greg Rucka complete and total editorial control on Wonder Woman including variant covers by contract. My promises of creative freedom were verbal. I think this is a case of complete miscommunication and things falling through the crack during the post-DC headquarter move to LA. Had Ive known Greg Rucka had complete editorial control over the variant covers, I would have never came onboard Wonder Woman.

 

Since we were on the same team with the same goal making great Wonder Woman comics, Mark Chiarello and I tried to reason with Greg Rucka to back off and let me do the variant covers in peace. But Rucka refused and tried to hammer me in line. Things escalated and got toxic very fast. The act of a freelance writer art directing me, overruling my senior art director, altering my artwork without consent was too much. I realized after Ruckas problems with my Wonder Woman #3 variant cover, my excitement and desire for the project have completely disappeared and I decided to bow out quietly after I finish my Wonder Woman #4 variant cover. (This was around end of May.) But DC wanted me to stay and finish out #5 and #6 covers to give them some time to find my replacement.

 

So I stuck it out and tried to deal with the flagrant disrespect for six issues, and quietly stepped off until Bleeding Cool gave me little choice but to respond. They caught wind that there was some discord in the Wonder Woman office over my covers and was about to cast negative light on the wrong people. So I went public yesterday and set the story straight, correctly naming Greg Rucka as the source of the problem before the wrong information was published.

 

 

 

Frank Cho is unprofessional.

 

He doesn't understand the idea that, in business, you get it in writing, or it doesn't exist. And if you get it in writing, and there's a breach, you go to court.

 

 

 

[drotto]

Bye Felicia.

 

I'm surprised Cho has gotten any work recently with how he has been sexualising Disney and Warner Brothers IP on those 'Outrage' covers.

 

One of my abiding memories from London Comic Con this year was Frank Cho sitting alone at his table, no queue, nobody asking for his signature, while two young girls strode past, both dressed up as Spider Gwen, giggling with excitement at the new comics they had just bought. It pretty much summed it up. Here's two kids enjoying a fun character that they can relate to, while the guy who constantly has to feel the need to draw creepy covers involving that character and other female characters looks out of place and out of touch. His dude-bro frat schtick is done. It's creepy, unfunny and verging on dirty old man at this stage (just follow him on Facebook for proof of that).

 

And I am sure there are those asking why Adam Hughes gets a pass and Cho doesn't; AH draws women that are sexy, but ooze confidence, funny, smart and with personality. Again look at those Outrage covers, Cho's women are brainless airheads, the butt of the joke, submissive and pathetic (another reason he's a bad fit for a strong flagship character like Wonder Woman). And of course Hughes is just a better artist in general, Cho has essentially drawn the same face on the same small headed woman since the late 90s, just with different outfits. And now with added Serpieri style cross hatching of course.

 

 

Not defending Cho for his "commission" work. I personally have never seen a need or even a place for that style of work. I realize it has a market, and he is able to sell this stuff to those individuals. There is enough accepted cheesecake out there in the comic world, that this over the top stuff seems just crude and often ridiculous, but to each their own. With that said, his WW art does not even come close to approaching those levels.

 

Cho's side work, brings up another though I have always had. These characters are the IP's of the various comic book companies. I know there is a culture where these companies have always been lenient with artists technically creating commissions for cash without the permission of the copyright owner. It seems to be a bending of the legal laws that is beneficial to both the artists and the IP's owner. Fans get personalized artwork, the artist gets money, and the company gets basically free advertising and happy fans that want to spend more money on licensed products. Everyone wins. I see no reason for this basic arrangement to change even if it is quasi legal. I own several commissions myself. What I do not understand is when artists produce "offensive" work that could be potential detrimental to the IP, the IP owners still let it slide.

[RockMyAmadeus]

To add some perspective. Does anyone have any interior shots as a way to compare to the cover? I do not have the issues in question and would like to see some of them. Cho is clearly making the claim in the follow up statement that his work was similar if not tamer than the interiors. It would not take long seeing both to see if his statement is valid.

 

 

Not relevant. It's a red herring by Cho. If the person in charge didn't approve it, it doesn't matter why, and trying to compare it to something else isn't valid. None of the rest of us has the right to judge "well, THIS/THESE panel(s) was/were just as good/bad/indifferent as the Cho covers, so therefore Rucka was wrong!"

 

[sckao]

http://www.themarysue.com/frank-cho-wonder-woman/

 

Weve reached out to Cho and Rucka for comments, and will update as necessary.

 

[uPDATE]: Cho has responded to our request for comment, and weve included his statement below.

 

Since youre asking me a straight question, Im going to answer honestly as possible from my point of view.

 

Wonder Woman was my dream job at DC Comics. I love and respect the character very much. When I was invited by DC to draw the 24 variant covers for Wonder Woman, I was ecstatic. I was told that I had complete freedom on the variant covers and the only person in charge of me was the senior art director, Mark Chiarello, who I greatly respect. Win-win for everyone.

 

Now the variant covers are handled by entirely separate editorial office than the rest of the books. I was given assurance that I would not have to deal with the Wonder Woman book writer or editor at all, and were told I would only be dealing with Mark Chiarello. So I came onboard and started working right away.

 

Everything went smoothly at first. I turned in my first batch of cover sketches and Chiarello approved them, and I started finishing and inking them ASAP since these were biweekly covers and we had limited time. Then Chiarello started getting art notes from Greg Rucka ordering him to tell me to alter and change things on the covers. (Remove arm band, make the skirt longer and wider to cover her up, showing too much skin, add the lasso here, etc.) Well, Chiarello and I were baffled and annoyed by Greg Ruckas art change orders. More so, since the interior pages were showing the same amount or more skin than my variant covers. (For example: Issue #2, panel One, etc.) I requested that Greg Rucka back off and let me do my variant covers in peace. After all, these were minor and subjective changes. And lets face it, being told by a non-artistic freelancer what I can and cannot draw didnt sit too well with me.

 

Then things got ugly. Apparently unbeknownst to Chiarello and me, DC, for whatever reason, gave Greg Rucka complete and total editorial control on Wonder Woman including variant covers by contract. My promises of creative freedom were verbal. I think this is a case of complete miscommunication and things falling through the crack during the post-DC headquarter move to LA. Had Ive known Greg Rucka had complete editorial control over the variant covers, I would have never came onboard Wonder Woman.

 

Since we were on the same team with the same goal making great Wonder Woman comics, Mark Chiarello and I tried to reason with Greg Rucka to back off and let me do the variant covers in peace. But Rucka refused and tried to hammer me in line. Things escalated and got toxic very fast. The act of a freelance writer art directing me, overruling my senior art director, altering my artwork without consent was too much. I realized after Ruckas problems with my Wonder Woman #3 variant cover, my excitement and desire for the project have completely disappeared and I decided to bow out quietly after I finish my Wonder Woman #4 variant cover. (This was around end of May.) But DC wanted me to stay and finish out #5 and #6 covers to give them some time to find my replacement.

 

So I stuck it out and tried to deal with the flagrant disrespect for six issues, and quietly stepped off until Bleeding Cool gave me little choice but to respond. They caught wind that there was some discord in the Wonder Woman office over my covers and was about to cast negative light on the wrong people. So I went public yesterday and set the story straight, correctly naming Greg Rucka as the source of the problem before the wrong information was published.

 

 

 

Frank Cho is unprofessional.

 

He doesn't understand the idea that, in business, you get it in writing, or it doesn't exist. And if you get it in writing, and there's a breach, you go to court.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think he is contesting the validity of the contract Rucka has (or his verbal one).

 

The relationship became toxic. He asked out of his contract. They asked that he stay on for 2 more covers to give them time to find a replacement. He complied.

 

I don't know what Bleeding Cool was going to print about who was at fault (Chairello?) which prompted this entire situation coming to light...

 

 

 

 

[Prince Namor]

To add some perspective. Does anyone have any interior shots as a way to compare to the cover? I do not have the issues in question and would like to see some of them. Cho is clearly making the claim in the follow up statement that his work was similar if not tamer than the interiors. It would not take long seeing both to see if his statement is valid.

 

Of course he is. Anything he can do to make himself seem the 'victim'.

 

He quit. He couldn't draw within the guidelines.

 

Interior art:

 

[Prince Namor]

Bye Felicia.

 

I'm surprised Cho has gotten any work recently with how he has been sexualising Disney and Warner Brothers IP on those 'Outrage' covers.

 

One of my abiding memories from London Comic Con this year was Frank Cho sitting alone at his table, no queue, nobody asking for his signature, while two young girls strode past, both dressed up as Spider Gwen, giggling with excitement at the new comics they had just bought. It pretty much summed it up. Here's two kids enjoying a fun character that they can relate to, while the guy who constantly has to feel the need to draw creepy covers involving that character and other female characters looks out of place and out of touch. His dude-bro frat schtick is done. It's creepy, unfunny and verging on dirty old man at this stage (just follow him on Facebook for proof of that).

 

And I am sure there are those asking why Adam Hughes gets a pass and Cho doesn't; AH draws women that are sexy, but ooze confidence, funny, smart and with personality. Again look at those Outrage covers, Cho's women are brainless airheads, the butt of the joke, submissive and pathetic (another reason he's a bad fit for a strong flagship character like Wonder Woman). And of course Hughes is just a better artist in general, Cho has essentially drawn the same face on the same small headed woman since the late 90s, just with different outfits. And now with added Serpieri style cross hatching of course.

 

 

His dream job:

[Prince Namor]

Bye Felicia.

 

I'm surprised Cho has gotten any work recently with how he has been sexualising Disney and Warner Brothers IP on those 'Outrage' covers.

 

One of my abiding memories from London Comic Con this year was Frank Cho sitting alone at his table, no queue, nobody asking for his signature, while two young girls strode past, both dressed up as Spider Gwen, giggling with excitement at the new comics they had just bought. It pretty much summed it up. Here's two kids enjoying a fun character that they can relate to, while the guy who constantly has to feel the need to draw creepy covers involving that character and other female characters looks out of place and out of touch. His dude-bro frat schtick is done. It's creepy, unfunny and verging on dirty old man at this stage (just follow him on Facebook for proof of that).

 

And I am sure there are those asking why Adam Hughes gets a pass and Cho doesn't; AH draws women that are sexy, but ooze confidence, funny, smart and with personality. Again look at those Outrage covers, Cho's women are brainless airheads, the butt of the joke, submissive and pathetic (another reason he's a bad fit for a strong flagship character like Wonder Woman). And of course Hughes is just a better artist in general, Cho has essentially drawn the same face on the same small headed woman since the late 90s, just with different outfits. And now with added Serpieri style cross hatching of course.

 

 

Not defending Cho for his "commission" work. I personally have never seen a need or even a place for that style of work. I realize it has a market, and he is able to sell this stuff to those individuals. There is enough accepted cheesecake out there in the comic world, that this over the top stuff seems just crude and often ridiculous, but to each their own. With that said, his WW art does not even come close to approaching those levels.

 

The art was changed. We didn't get to see the originals. Something to do with length of skirt and arm bracelets.

 

 

Too much work to pursue it for how little of it is out there.

[Prince Namor]

Personally, I've always found Cho's work, somewhat tame - light GGA - not offensive to me personally. Even this piece, I personally wouldn't have thought twice about.

 

What I take issue with is the artist making a big deal about essentially not being able to fulfill his contract, because he couldn't take direction. It's in his best interest to paint this as an 'outrage', because realistically, DC COULD sue him for breach of contract if they decided to be real sticklers about it. He wasn't being asked to do anything different than any other artist in the 80+ years comics have been published.

 

He just didn't want to do it.

[eewwnuk]

cho is a polarizing overhyped artist. surprising that dc would have him on such a marquee title but not surprising that he would rub some people the wrong way. in the end looks like he rubbed the wrong person the wrong way and I for one am glad he's gone.