For those of you that were around in the 90s, was the 'crash' a good thing?

[Gaard]

I removed myself from the hobby in the 80s ... I blame girls and drugs for that. But it seems to me that if I were actively collecting during that time, it would've been nice. I guess for dealers/sellers not so much, but it had to be great if you were strictly a collector. Although, it seems like so much emphasis is put on how much one's collection is worth these days, I imagine even collectors were experiencing a certain amount of disappointment.

[Ken Aldred]

In terms of picking up cheap, high-grade Bronze Age books after the crash, yes.

 

Obviously, as a purist collector, I hope that history repeats itself.

[thehumantorch]

I removed myself from the hobby in the 80s ... I blame girls and drugs for that. But it seems to me that if I were actively collecting during that time, it would've been nice. I guess for dealers/sellers not so much, but it had to be great if you were strictly a collector. Although, it seems like so much emphasis is put on how much one's collection is worth these days, I imagine even collectors were experiencing a certain amount of disappointment.

 

I consider the crash a bad thing. Some collectors quit the hobby because of all the multi covers and many quit after the crash. Seems like I talk to collectors all the time who quit in the early 90s and eventually came back many years later.

[Mercury Man]

A crash weeds out the posers from the collectors. So in that sense it was good. The problem is the glut of product that to this day, 25 years later, you still see in the dollar bins. It seems like that stuff never evaporates.

 

 

[oakman29]

There's an ebb and flow to everything. The crash happened because there was a glut of books that people speculated on,and lost big time on.

Beware, with the many variants that come out these days, we will probably see this happen again.

[Gaard]

Yeah, it seems like the reasons for the crash were bad for the hobby, but it still seems like the crash itself may have been welcomed if you didn't sell any comics, but just strictly collected.

[comix4fun]

A crash weeds out the posers from the collectors. So in that sense it was good. The problem is the glut of product that to this day, 25 years later, you still see in the dollar bins. It seems like that stuff never evaporates.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, the 90's crash weeded out thousands of comic shop owners, most of whom were long time, Non posers, and some great people. We still haven't rebounded and lost a ton of great shops that we will never see again.

[Jking3437]

During the crash , what was it like buying gold and silver age keys. I could imagine they were cheaper but how much cheaper? Always wanted to know.

 

What was pricing before for a action comics 1 , detective 27, cap 1, AF15 ?

[comix4fun]

I don't remember the crash impacting real keys at all. It destroyed manufactured modern "keys" and everything that went with it. People were desperate to cash out of the modern junk and into silver and gold. If they waited too long they got stuck holding the hot potato.

[Gaard]

A crash weeds out the posers from the collectors. So in that sense it was good. The problem is the glut of product that to this day, 25 years later, you still see in the dollar bins. It seems like that stuff never evaporates.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, the 90's crash weeded out thousands of comic shop owners, most of whom were long time, Non posers, and some great people. We still haven't rebounded and lost a ton of great shops that we will never see again.

I hadn't really thought of that. Although comics were so much cheaper, I imagine, with the closing of thousands of shops, that they were harder to locate.

[Mercury Man]

A crash weeds out the posers from the collectors. So in that sense it was good. The problem is the glut of product that to this day, 25 years later, you still see in the dollar bins. It seems like that stuff never evaporates.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, the 90's crash weeded out thousands of comic shop owners, most of whom were long time, Non posers, and some great people. We still haven't rebounded and lost a ton of great shops that we will never see again.

 

My question to you is, was this a business model problem then? Did they get caught up in the speculation hype, since this was really a first time thing. Did they overbuy those awesome foil covers, pre-bagged with a collector card inside? Or did they stick with what they knew, and avoid trends? I was in a conversation with one of my LCS's a few weeks ago, and he said he is absolutely DONE with variant covers. He is not upping his orders for dealer incentive variants. He is the type of LCS that will succeed and continue into the future.

 

It is possible to own a shop and speculate as well.

 

 

[comix4fun]

A crash weeds out the posers from the collectors. So in that sense it was good. The problem is the glut of product that to this day, 25 years later, you still see in the dollar bins. It seems like that stuff never evaporates.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, the 90's crash weeded out thousands of comic shop owners, most of whom were long time, Non posers, and some great people. We still haven't rebounded and lost a ton of great shops that we will never see again.

 

My question to you is, was this a business model problem then? Did they get caught up in the speculation hype, since this was really a first time thing. Did they overbuy those awesome foil covers, pre-bagged with a collector card inside? Or did they stick with what they knew, and avoid trends? I was in a conversation with one of my LCS's a few weeks ago, and he said he is absolutely DONE with variant covers. He is not upping his orders for dealer incentive variants. He is the type of LCS that will succeed and continue into the future.

 

 

 

Lots of shops stayed away from pogs and chrome and lenticular and blah blah covers and still went down with the others. The crash left collectors with collections of diminished value and a bad taste in their mouth. Many stopped buying comics, as evinced by print runs, even regular main title non gimmick books took a huge hit. When a large portion of the collecting populace walks away it hurt every shop, even the 20-25% that managed to stay in business.

[Aweandlorder]

There were many "crashes" ever since then.. Just not as pronounced as the "big one". The comic market today is very much the niche market it has always been since the late 70s.

If you wouldnt invest today in a high grade Bronze key, chances are you wouldnt've invested in a golden/silver age high grade key back in the 90s after the crash

[comix4fun]

 

It is possible to own a shop and speculate as well.

 

 

 

Oh I agree. There were LOTS of those guys. The one who came late, following the money. Following whatever the latest trend was.

 

One guy I met. I went to his warehouse to pick up a set of ASM 50-150 that he was trading to me for a complete pre-unity Valiant set. Well, he had 3 full pallets sitting there filled with shrink wrapped comic books by the case. It was something like 48,000 copies of Rai and the Future Force #9 that he had ordered.

 

I dumped all my Valiants within the next three weeks after seeing that, except for my personal copies.

 

Most of those guys went down hard. A few survived by accident. They didn't know much of anything about comics, and opened their shops selling cards, and posters, and comics, and Magic the Gathering Cards.....and those Magic Cards saved their bacon. When everything else failed they were able to make it on their in store tourneys and such.

[romanheart]

Not a good thing but an inevitable thing. We're kind of going through a low now. Movie-hyped books go red hot and cool off again.

 

I'd say it was good for the collector for getting better prices but there is so much junk pumped out aside from some Image/IDW titles.

[Mercury Man]

I think it is important to the question though:

 

If thousands of shops went out of business because of the 1990's crash, was it because long time collectors got frustrated and walked away, or was it because new people came to the hobby, and dealers started overbuying product on this new cash cow. When the crash came, they were stuck with excess inventory, declining sales, and the advent of the dollar bin.

 

The Baseball Card hobby went through the exact same thing (let's face it, many places did both comics and cards). People bought 50 NM cards of Seattle Mariners Pitcher Roger Salked, waiting for the big score. Who is Roger Salked?......Exactly.

 

So was it speculators and the crash that killed many stores, was it the valued customer who was a regular walking away, or was it the stores getting caught up in the hype as well, over buying product? Doesn't the LCS owner needs to take some of the blame on their own demise, by following trends, even if they sell trends at the time?

 

Again, I go back to one of my LCS owners. Let's face it, variants are becoming the foil cover of the 1990's. He said he is done with dealer incentive variants. He is not overbuying just to try and sell something that will probably wind up deeply discounted a few years later, because it sits.

[VintageComics]

It's a natural cycle to regulate 'normal' economics. It happens in every economy.

 

 

[Diaolos]

It's a natural cycle to regulate 'normal' economics. It happens in every economy.

 

[Prince Namor]

Here's what some people don't understand about the crash and how it hurt good shops as well as the speculator shops.

 

When you watch 20-30 people a week (or more) walk out the door to your competitor because you didn't order enough of the latest whatever, you adjust your orders to NOT lose that kind of business.

No one sits there thinking, I don't need those customers.

 

It kept ramping up for NEW product. Publishers don't like and never will like the secondary market - it doesn't benefit them. The emphasis they kept placing was always on ordering MORE - don't get caught short - have enough.

 

And as you saw all of these books selling so many copies - and Wizard showing so many books going up in price - and people actually buying so much of it.. You wanted make sure you ordered enough.

 

Every month it's the next big thing - am I ordering enough? Do I have enough? Am I losing business to the guy across town...

The ordering cycle for stores never stops and let's you catch your breath - next month, next week, next shipment, write a check.

A RE-ORDER doesn't show up overnight - back then you might wait two weeks to get it - sorry, already lost those sales...

 

Once the crash starts, everyone was confused - is it the back issues - is it next week's book - is Turok #1 a fluke that no one wants - remember - you're placing these orders a couple of months ahead of time - you can't suddenly change your mind because the market decides they don't want the latest flop.

 

That's wasted budget you can't replace.

 

THEN, you have Marvel decide they want to distribute their own product, cutting minimums for Diamond nearly in half for many dealers and wiping out a large number of retailers just from that fiasco. It got to be too much - not just for the fly-by-nighters, but for quality retailers as well.

 

The greed hurt everyone. The shops that survived generally were either in a smaller market primarily to themselves, or big enough to absorb the losses.

 

It HELPED to not fall for the hype and still value your real keys, but it certainly didn't protect you.

[comix4fun]

I think it is important to the question though:

 

If thousands of shops went out of business because of the 1990's crash, was it because long time collectors got frustrated and walked away, or was it because new people came to the hobby, and dealers started overbuying product on this new cash cow. When the crash came, they were stuck with excess inventory, declining sales, and the advent of the dollar bin.

 

The Baseball Card hobby went through the exact same thing (let's face it, many places did both comics and cards). People bought 50 NM cards of Seattle Mariners Pitcher Roger Salked, waiting for the big score. Who is Roger Salked?......Exactly.

 

So was it speculators and the crash that killed many stores, was it the valued customer who was a regular walking away, or was it the stores getting caught up in the hype as well, over buying product? Doesn't the LCS owner needs to take some of the blame on their own demise, by following trends, even if they sell trends at the time?

 

Again, I go back to one of my LCS owners. Let's face it, variants are becoming the foil cover of the 1990's. He said he is done with dealer incentive variants. He is not overbuying just to try and sell something that will probably wind up deeply discounted a few years later, because it sits.

 

 

Having seen it first hand, I can tell you anyone that understood what was happening would never attempt to say it was one thing, or even worse a choice between mutually exclusive things.