Comic Con sellers seem to be in the wrong business. SMH

[Couchy81]

As a buyer at cons I can say what I look for in books I'm collecting for my PC is not a "deal". I dont waste hours digging long boxes to save a few bucks on a semi-key. I browse the room for the books I'm looking for, and I'm happy paying market (ebay) price on books the meet or exceed the expected condition for that price. For example I was searching for a book in good shape at the $40 price point. I found it at multiple dealers for around that price but only one of them met the grade. The rest were dinged up and I would have been sorely disappointed if I bought them off eBay for market price with their flaws. The benefit of the con is getting to inspect the books up close in person and is worth the price of admission / market rate.

 

So you want a quality graded book for E-Bay market prices? I'm sure anyone who buys a lot of books on E-Bay will attest the grades vs prices can be a shoot. The one $40 book you found at the Con would probably have been $60 on E-Bay from a known great grader since the market price of $40 was for the questionable graded books. So even though you thought you were paying market prices at the Con you were actually getting a steal since you got the chance to look the book over and pick the best graded of the batch.

 

Sure it goes both ways, there is give and take at shows and on eBay. In this case the book was an X-men #221 and for my forty bucks i got a clean copy and didn't have to pay shipping. The others I found had 6-8 spine ticks and other flaws for the same price. Maybe I found the only copy at actual market price because I could inspect them in person. What I'm saying is I don't haggle guys when they sell me books for eBay prices that meet expected grade for the price.

 

Now the guy who sold you the X-Men 221 probably sold a ton of books assuming the rest of his books were graded and sold at similar prices so he probably went home happy with a fat stack of cash so who is to say he isn't the smart one.

 

A fair assessment, and also accurate as I did buy more than one book from him, he had a great stock of books and was making deals and trades with people as I was browsing. Nothing was a steal I think it was priced fairly and probably on purpose in order to move stock. The guys with $100 tags on $50 books looked really bored sitting in their chairs not interacting with anyone.

[STORMSHADOW_80]

As a buyer at cons I can say what I look for in books I'm collecting for my PC is not a "deal". I dont waste hours digging long boxes to save a few bucks on a semi-key. I browse the room for the books I'm looking for, and I'm happy paying market (ebay) price on books the meet or exceed the expected condition for that price. For example I was searching for a book in good shape at the $40 price point. I found it at multiple dealers for around that price but only one of them met the grade. The rest were dinged up and I would have been sorely disappointed if I bought them off eBay for market price with their flaws. The benefit of the con is getting to inspect the books up close in person and is worth the price of admission / market rate.

+1 If I can get a fair price on a book and be able to inspect it in person then it's worth it. A lot of times I'll bring a few books with me that I can trade with some of the dealers too.

[thecopperagekids]

Interesting analysis. With tons of sales data instantly at people's fingertips nowadays, the days of dealers inflating the prices of books over market value are pretty much over. As a semi-regular con goer, I expect to pay prices that are less than I can find on eBay. The advantages to the buyer are obvious, but the seller doesn't have to pay eBay fees and the books don't have to survive the USPS torture chamber before getting into the hands of the buyer. Also, cash transactions incur no Paypal or CC fees.

 

I'd say that is much more of an advantage to the buyer.

 

Not having to worry if the seller will pack the book correctly and if it will arrive to my house with some freshly incurred spine ticks is damn near priceless, to me.

 

 

 

 

[Doktor]

Interesting analysis. With tons of sales data instantly at people's fingertips nowadays, the days of dealers inflating the prices of books over market value are pretty much over. As a semi-regular con goer, I expect to pay prices that are less than I can find on eBay. The advantages to the buyer are obvious, but the seller doesn't have to pay eBay fees and the books don't have to survive the USPS torture chamber before getting into the hands of the buyer. Also, cash transactions incur no Paypal or CC fees.

 

I'd say that is much more of an advantage to the buyer.

 

Not having to worry if the seller will pack the book correctly and if it will arrive to my house with some freshly incurred spine ticks is damn near priceless, to me.

 

 

 

 

Why would it be a boon to the buyer? If it shows up damaged, buyers can just return it as INAD & it becomes the seller's problem to sort out with USPS since they (likely) packed it poorly or USPS mishandled it. The only thing that the buyer is out is the time they waited for the book to be delivered & a little disappointment. Because there's always another book with very rare exceptions.

[HighRadArt]

I stopped actively buying comics at convention's a long time ago because of the prices. If I buy any comics it's usually exclusives or moderns that look interesting. I mainly go to meet the artists and to pick up some original art. You can get some great art at reasonable prices if you buy it directly from the artist.

[1Cool]

Interesting analysis. With tons of sales data instantly at people's fingertips nowadays, the days of dealers inflating the prices of books over market value are pretty much over. As a semi-regular con goer, I expect to pay prices that are less than I can find on eBay. The advantages to the buyer are obvious, but the seller doesn't have to pay eBay fees and the books don't have to survive the USPS torture chamber before getting into the hands of the buyer. Also, cash transactions incur no Paypal or CC fees.

 

I'd say that is much more of an advantage to the buyer.

 

Not having to worry if the seller will pack the book correctly and if it will arrive to my house with some freshly incurred spine ticks is damn near priceless, to me.

 

 

 

 

Why would it be a boon to the buyer? If it shows up damaged, buyers can just return it as INAD & it becomes the seller's problem to sort out with USPS since they (likely) packed it poorly or USPS mishandled it. The only thing that the buyer is out is the time they waited for the book to be delivered & a little disappointment. Because there's always another book with very rare exceptions.

 

As long as you pack a book well you will have no issues 99 out of 100 times so other then the time necessary to pack the books all the shipping cost is incurred by the buyer. I'd think the lack of wait time is a benefit to the buyer but I'd say the ability to hand grade a book is the number one reason to buy books at a Con.

[1Cool]

I stopped actively buying comics at convention's a long time ago because of the prices. If I buy any comics it's usually exclusives or moderns that look interesting. I mainly go to meet the artists and to pick up some original art. You can get some great art at reasonable prices if you buy it directly from the artist.

 

I was looking at some of the pieces Perez brought on Saturday and although they looked cool I just do not have a good enough idea of OA prices to make a good buying decision (from a short / long term flipping angle).

[KPR Comics]

When I started doing shows, I had three rules:

1. Sales had to exceed 10x booth fees;

2. Always leave a show with less books and more money than you brought; and

3. When it was no longer fun, it was time to get out.

 

Never had a problem w/the threshold in #1. If your margins are so skinny that you can't sell a book for less than you could on ebay, your stock is probably not that good (the exception being guys like GAtor). If New Mutants 1 is on your wall, your stock is probably not that good. Edit: or, you are paying too much for your books; or, you are greedy.

 

As for #2: I've seen plenty of small timers load out the same number of boxes they loaded in. Reason: they tried to squeeze every nickel out of every book, or their books were just not enticing.

 

As for #3: It's no longer fun (for me) so I don't do it anymore. Maybe I'll get back into it because having a bunch of comic books sitting in boxes, in a closet and on shelves is no longer appealing so it's probably time to sell off that baggage.

[Doktor]

Interesting analysis. With tons of sales data instantly at people's fingertips nowadays, the days of dealers inflating the prices of books over market value are pretty much over. As a semi-regular con goer, I expect to pay prices that are less than I can find on eBay. The advantages to the buyer are obvious, but the seller doesn't have to pay eBay fees and the books don't have to survive the USPS torture chamber before getting into the hands of the buyer. Also, cash transactions incur no Paypal or CC fees.

 

I'd say that is much more of an advantage to the buyer.

 

Not having to worry if the seller will pack the book correctly and if it will arrive to my house with some freshly incurred spine ticks is damn near priceless, to me.

 

 

 

 

Why would it be a boon to the buyer? If it shows up damaged, buyers can just return it as INAD & it becomes the seller's problem to sort out with USPS since they (likely) packed it poorly or USPS mishandled it. The only thing that the buyer is out is the time they waited for the book to be delivered & a little disappointment. Because there's always another book with very rare exceptions.

 

As long as you pack a book well you will have no issues 99 out of 100 times so other then the time necessary to pack the books all the shipping cost is incurred by the buyer. I'd think the lack of wait time is a benefit to the buyer but I'd say the ability to hand grade a book is the number one reason to buy books at a Con.

 

The point I was making is that eliminating shipping damage risks isn't any sort of boon to the buyers. It's a boon to sellers by not having to worry about whether their packaging is good enough (for non-pro or new sellers) or whether the USPS is going to play Frisbee with their book or otherwise risk a return for whatever other reason. Buyers are covered when they're buying online. They lose that protection when buying in-person. They just gotta say "not as described" because they didn't bother to read the description & ebay makes you accept the return. They don't have the same protection from their own stupidity buying at a convention.

 

As for the rest of your argument, while it's accurate it also entire disregards the point I made in my other posts that the admission fee to the con is the premium buyers pay to hand-grade books themselves.

[mysterio]

When I started doing shows, I had three rules:

1. Sales had to exceed 10x booth fees;

2. Always leave a show with less books and more money than you brought; and

3. When it was no longer fun, it was time to get out.

 

Never had a problem w/the threshold in #1. If your margins are so skinny that you can't sell a book for less than you could on ebay, your stock is probably not that good (the exception being guys like GAtor). If New Mutants 1 is on your wall, your stock is probably not that good. Edit: or, you are paying too much for your books; or, you are greedy.

 

As for #2: I've seen plenty of small timers load out the same number of boxes they loaded in. Reason: they tried to squeeze every nickel out of every book, or their books were just not enticing.

 

As for #3: It's no longer fun (for me) so I don't do it anymore. Maybe I'll get back into it because having a bunch of comic books sitting in boxes, in a closet and on shelves is no longer appealing so it's probably time to sell off that baggage.

 

We've always tried to have a "magic shelf" of $5-10 books that drives impulse buys. That New Mutants #1 may not sell at $10 out of a box, but if people see it on your wall it disappears. This works well at smaller shows.

[the blob]

As for the guy selling POPs at comic shows, their gross sales may look great, but they are also paying something like $6-7 wholesale to sell them at $10. Margins are very low, so if they are paying $600 for a booth (takes profits off 200 POP sales just to cover that nut), and then having to run a trailer to get all of them there, plus hotel/gas/food/etc they can't be making a whole lot of profit.

 

------

 

This.

 

Profit margins are what matter, not gross sales. (Well, so long as you are exceeding your costs for the show by a decent chunk)

 

 

--

 

 

As for the other point, yes, for a given desired book there is no reason it should be cheaper at a con than on ebay. Of course, I want to pay less than ebay, but telling a dealer who is spending $1000+ to be at a show he is supposed to be cheaper than ebay is a bit much...maybe if you are doing a giant bulk purchase.

[1Cool]

Interesting analysis. With tons of sales data instantly at people's fingertips nowadays, the days of dealers inflating the prices of books over market value are pretty much over. As a semi-regular con goer, I expect to pay prices that are less than I can find on eBay. The advantages to the buyer are obvious, but the seller doesn't have to pay eBay fees and the books don't have to survive the USPS torture chamber before getting into the hands of the buyer. Also, cash transactions incur no Paypal or CC fees.

 

I'd say that is much more of an advantage to the buyer.

 

Not having to worry if the seller will pack the book correctly and if it will arrive to my house with some freshly incurred spine ticks is damn near priceless, to me.

 

 

 

 

Why would it be a boon to the buyer? If it shows up damaged, buyers can just return it as INAD & it becomes the seller's problem to sort out with USPS since they (likely) packed it poorly or USPS mishandled it. The only thing that the buyer is out is the time they waited for the book to be delivered & a little disappointment. Because there's always another book with very rare exceptions.

 

As long as you pack a book well you will have no issues 99 out of 100 times so other then the time necessary to pack the books all the shipping cost is incurred by the buyer. I'd think the lack of wait time is a benefit to the buyer but I'd say the ability to hand grade a book is the number one reason to buy books at a Con.

 

The point I was making is that eliminating shipping damage risks isn't any sort of boon to the buyers. It's a boon to sellers by not having to worry about whether their packaging is good enough (for non-pro or new sellers) or whether the USPS is going to play Frisbee with their book or otherwise risk a return for whatever other reason. Buyers are covered when they're buying online. They lose that protection when buying in-person. They just gotta say "not as described" because they didn't bother to read the description & ebay makes you accept the return. They don't have the same protection from their own stupidity buying at a convention.

 

As for the rest of your argument, while it's accurate it also entire disregards the point I made in my other posts that the admission fee to the con is the premium buyers pay to hand-grade books themselves.

 

I do agree the price of admission (and travel cost) is the price you pay to get in the door but that is all the money and time you are on the hook for. A dealer has to pony up thousands of dollars and several days to set up at the Con you spent $5 and 4 hours to attend. The dealers time and expenses are of course none of your concern any more then you should worry about how much time it takes Wal-Mart to restock their shelves. But when people say prices are so high at certain Cons you can at least understand why a dealer can't give away books at 20% less then E-Bay prices or maybe even try to get a bit more then the going rates to make up for all the expenses. Of course its always up to you if you buy or not.

 

That does bring up a point. Isn't a comic con kind of like having 15 Ford dealers all set up new car displays under one roof? There may be 500 buyers walking thru the door but it's definitely not a good format to sell cars unless you have some inside discounts that make your prices more attractive or you are selling the hot color that no one else can get. A ton of people all trying to sell pretty much the exact same product doesn't seem to work anywhere unless you are at a Mexico flea market.

[Hschwartz]

Thanks to KPR comics for putting the one word that nobody seems to mention. That word is fun!. Unless it is your business I would hope that most people go to a show to enjoy the experience. Yes it is more enjoyable if your a comic collector and can get books you need at a reasonable price, but if you like the whole convention experience you can have a good time even if you don't buy much.

 

Also from a dealer perspective you can also use the con as a place to buy books you need for your store or mail order business. For stores it is also a good place to hand out business cards and try to get new customers interested who may not have heard of your store.

 

The large cons like San Diego have become so expensive that bargains aren't likely to ever be found again. Hopefully some of the smaller shows can recapture some of the fun that cons used to be back in the sixties/seventies when non dealers just loaded up their trucks and brought stuff to sell without checking the Overstreet on every obscure comic they had in the garage.

 

 

[1Cool]

When I started doing shows, I had three rules:

1. Sales had to exceed 10x booth fees;

2. Always leave a show with less books and more money than you brought; and

3. When it was no longer fun, it was time to get out.

 

Never had a problem w/the threshold in #1. If your margins are so skinny that you can't sell a book for less than you could on ebay, your stock is probably not that good (the exception being guys like GAtor). If New Mutants 1 is on your wall, your stock is probably not that good. Edit: or, you are paying too much for your books; or, you are greedy.

 

As for #2: I've seen plenty of small timers load out the same number of boxes they loaded in. Reason: they tried to squeeze every nickel out of every book, or their books were just not enticing.

 

As for #3: It's no longer fun (for me) so I don't do it anymore. Maybe I'll get back into it because having a bunch of comic books sitting in boxes, in a closet and on shelves is no longer appealing so it's probably time to sell off that baggage.

 

Based on the results of your past sales threads I'd not think you would have a problem selling books here on the boards. I've set up at 8 cons since mid last year and only cons I've come close to those numbers is local $60 tables where I make $700 - $800. The bigger Cons always run about $1,000 after all expenses and I don't ever exceed 5x my cost. Of course I'm thinking of just concentrating on a couple small one day Cons next year so your rules should work next year.

[1Cool]

Thanks to KPR comics for putting the one word that nobody seems to mention. That word is fun!. Unless it is your business I would hope that most people go to a show to enjoy the experience. Yes it is more enjoyable if your a comic collector and can get books you need at a reasonable price, but if you like the whole convention experience you can have a good time even if you don't buy much.

 

Also from a dealer perspective you can also use the con as a place to buy books you need for your store or mail order business. For stores it is also a good place to hand out business cards and try to get new customers interested who may not have heard of your store.

 

The large cons like San Diego have become so expensive that bargains aren't likely to ever be found again. Hopefully some of the smaller shows can recapture some of the fun that cons used to be back in the sixties/seventies when non dealers just loaded up their trucks and brought stuff to sell without checking the Overstreet on every obscure comic they had in the garage.

 

 

E-Bay killed those type of Con experiences. Who would put out 5 long boxes of books without at least skimming sold prices on E-Bay of most of the books first? I don't think people should squeeze every cent out of every book but selling an easy $50 book for $1 doesn't sound very fun either.

[Jeffro.]

I look at it this way, my admissions fee to the convention WAS the premium that I paid to be able to inspect books up close & not pay for shipping. So paying an additional premium (essentially, still paying ebay prices) to the vendors isn't something I'm terribly interested in doing.

 

Because while the argument is that the vendors could be doing something better with their time, so could I. I could just as easily buy the book from the comfort of my recliner from my phone & get it in a few days. But I pay an admissions price, take time out of my day to hit the ATM, drive to a venue, possibly pay parking & gas, pay an admission fee for the privilege of buying products inside, wander through a hall, and maybe eventually find the book(s) that I want at a price I'm willing to pay in the grade that I want, and then drive back home.

 

Paying more to spend more of my time when I could just make a sandwich at home & buy the book(s) from the comfort of my couch for cheaper than my admission, parking, gas and the cost of the book(s)? Pass.

 

Funny you mention this. I wanted to go to the Hartford Comic Con this past weekend. I live close by so gas wasn't a huge expense. However, admission was $30 for one day ($30, one day. Are you kidding me? $30?) and then the parking fees on top of that. I decided to stay home.

 

Don't get me wrong. I still love going to cons. There's nothing like the anticipation of being in a room with dozens or hundreds of long and short boxes but these days I usually only go to the smaller shows.

[Vger7]

This is a fantastic thread... I really appreciate all the insights.

 

I can confirm that the situation is pretty much the same here in Toronto but I continue to participate at shows because I've got the time (not working right now) and for the entertainment (fun).

 

I'd like to add – My observation has been that people who buy books at Cons tend to be folks who are less literate on computer or simply don't like or trust shopping online. Also, sitting behind the computer can be isolating, which is one of the reasons why forums such as this has been successful, offering human interaction, while Cons tend to be more social with face to face conversations.

 

Same could be said about sellers. I've spoken to some full time vendors and they refuse to move their business online. They have all the excuses to dislike eBay as if they are reading from a -script. I can only conclude that they are unable to change due to their lack of knowledge or simply don't want to emotionally. Still, if you're a full timer, I really believe that having an online presence, be it eBay or your own retail site is a must.

 

I recently took part in FanExpo, the big show in Toronto and wrote about my experience here:

 

http://www.comicbookdaily.com/minutiae/big-one-fan-expo/

[KPR Comics]

When I started doing shows, I had three rules:

1. Sales had to exceed 10x booth fees;

2. Always leave a show with less books and more money than you brought; and

3. When it was no longer fun, it was time to get out.

 

Never had a problem w/the threshold in #1. If your margins are so skinny that you can't sell a book for less than you could on ebay, your stock is probably not that good (the exception being guys like GAtor). If New Mutants 1 is on your wall, your stock is probably not that good. Edit: or, you are paying too much for your books; or, you are greedy.

 

As for #2: I've seen plenty of small timers load out the same number of boxes they loaded in. Reason: they tried to squeeze every nickel out of every book, or their books were just not enticing.

 

As for #3: It's no longer fun (for me) so I don't do it anymore. Maybe I'll get back into it because having a bunch of comic books sitting in boxes, in a closet and on shelves is no longer appealing so it's probably time to sell off that baggage.

 

Based on the results of your past sales threads I'd not think you would have a problem selling books here on the boards. I've set up at 8 cons since mid last year and only cons I've come close to those numbers is local $60 tables where I make $700 - $800. The bigger Cons always run about $1,000 after all expenses and I don't ever exceed 5x my cost. Of course I'm thinking of just concentrating on a couple small one day Cons next year so your rules should work next year.

 

I've done small shows and big ones, and never had a problem meeting those numbers. In fact, there were times where I hit my target by Saturday of a two or three day show and didn't even set up on Sunday because the extra $500-$1,000 in potential sales was not worth another 10 hours on my feet. I'm not boasting, mind you, it's just my approach. I always tried to have competitive books and competitive prices and would gladly give up profit on a book in exchange for cash. Always about the turn for me. But sourcing books is not as easy today as it once was (or I just got lazier as I got older). The key for me was to be adaptable. And by that I mean I would check out who was setting up at a particular show, and try to adjust my offerings accordingly. Sometimes it would be a big wall and 50% off silver. Other times, nothing but trades at 3/$10. Yes, I could get $10-$15 on some of those trades, but I was content with blowing out 20 longs of trades versus lugging 19 of those boxes back to the office. And always, always, bring some $1 or 2/$1 or 5/$1. That stuff pays for the booth. Believe me.

[Hudson]

I don't go to many conventions these days because I hate to negotiate.

 

I don't mind paying a dealer FMV or more than FMV if it is something I really want and I can walk out with the book in hand that day. I do NOT expect dealers to sell for below eBay prices. Perhaps this is the case with easy to find modern books, I have no idea, however, with GA, it is hard to imagine any two books are exactly the same. Thus, I would tend to pay a little more for the copy at the convention that I can fully inspect and know exactly what I am getting. I also prefer to support the same comic dealers who I have had good dealings with in the past. That is what I like about conventions. That and just the fun of going.

 

What I hate about conventions is that MOST dealers seem to inflate their prices with the expectation that there will be a negotiation. When I look at a book and see a price that seems over inflated, I typically just walk away. I don't want to negotiate. That is not fun for me.

 

At last year's Baltimore convention I went to one dealer's booth and saw a wall book that I liked. It was marked $400. I thought I had remembered seeing the same book on their website. This I walked away and checked his wensite on my phone. The exact same book was marked $300 on the web site. The book IMO was well worth the $300, however, I was not willing to pay the $400 he had it marked at the convention and I was not about to go back and show him on my phone how the book was $100 cheaper on his website.

 

I am certain he would have sold me the book for the $300, which I would have been happy with, however, the whole "negotiation" does not appeal to me.

 

I am guessing many board members enjoy negotiating and feeling they "got a good deal" through stiff haggling. I would prefer books just be priced fairly and accurately. I can then look at the book and price and there will only be one question I need to ask myself, "is this book worth this price to me". I will not have to ask myself how much I think i cannegotiate off the price to make the book acceptable to me.

 

So, I avoid many conventions and I am guessing many dealers have lost sales to me, because their books were marked higher than they actually expected to receive for them.

 

I am NOT trying to gets books at some unrealistic price. I want dealers to make a profit. This keeps them in business and keeps them coming back with more books. I like that and I believe in sellers making fair profits. I just don't like when they mark their books up 30 or 40 percent or more, just to accommodate the negotiators.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Holmes]

Interesting analysis. With tons of sales data instantly at people's fingertips nowadays, the days of dealers inflating the prices of books over market value are pretty much over. As a semi-regular con goer, I expect to pay prices that are less than I can find on eBay. The advantages to the buyer are obvious, but the seller doesn't have to pay eBay fees and the books don't have to survive the USPS torture chamber before getting into the hands of the buyer. Also, cash transactions incur no Paypal or CC fees.

 

These are reasons that I expect to pay a little MORE as a buyer at a con. Having a book in hand and being able to walk off with it immediately after the purchase are why con purchases should cost a bit more. You actually get better opportunities to purchase books you know you will be happy with, and instant gratification to boot. If you expect to get all that at a discount I think you're being a little unrealistic.

 

It costs dealers more to set up at a con than it does to sell online. That, plus giving up an entire weekend when they could be doing something else, or nothing at all. That costs money too.

 

As for the guy selling POPs at comic shows, their gross sales may look great, but they are also paying something like $6-7 wholesale to sell them at $10. Margins are very low, so if they are paying $600 for a booth (takes profits off 200 POP sales just to cover that nut), and then having to run a trailer to get all of them there, plus hotel/gas/food/etc they can't be making a whole lot of profit.

 

I'd have to say 10% of the people I've dealt with at Cons fall into this category. Wants nice condition books and expects to pay a bit of a premium at a Con. The remaining 90% of people are either fellow flippers who want it ultra cheap or guys who want a book they need but want it for 10% off E-Bay prices since they think cash is king.

 

And a peaking of this trend may be why sales (at least for us) seem to be down in 2016 over 2015. If people aren't buying books to collect this may be a sign of the coming apocalypse.

 

I am not sure that there are fewer collectors than there used to be. Speculators have always been around. Many people actually collect AND speculate as you know. It could be that what we are seeing is the growing awareness on the part of buyers that Price Guide values are very often non-reflective of what an item can actually sell for.

 

Online sources like Ebay have been the primary buying area for collectors for quite sometime now and it seems to me that they are getting a sense about true vs guide value.

 

My question would be why do price guides do not SEEM to reflect real life sales data when that data is pretty easy to come by?