Comic Con sellers seem to be in the wrong business. SMH

[jsilverjanet]

I think too often people take their personal experience as a way to measure the temperature of the comic industry when it's far more complex than that,

 

there are so many factors (location, time of year, type of show, number of attendees etc)

 

I just did a small show and it probably had less than 70 people through the doors.

 

I didn't sell as much as other times due to the number of customers, but also because none of the dealers who set up were buying (which sometimes can be 50-75% OT my total sales) I was lucky that I had 3-4 customers who have spent money with me before show up and spend their money at my table.

 

I had sold $12 after the first hour but by the end of the day I was very happy.

 

Also everyone has different expectations. Someone who set up at the show was happy they sold a Nm87 for $150. That made their day. My goal is too move bulk and sell a few books here and there. I probably sold about 1 short box of silver/bronze books, and 1 long box of copper 50 cent books

 

That made the show a success for me.

[blazingbob]

All too often and frankly I've read a lot of the same thing in this thread that I have heard since 1973.

 

If your business is to sell comics the purpose of doing shows is to meet customers for the long term. If you don't know your business model don't be surprised if you don't fail. If you cannot identify your customer base then save your money for another business. If you cannot identify your competitors and ask yourself why would customers shop with you versus them then save your money for another business. If you think this business is not hard work then you are totally kidding yourself. If you think you can rip people off and that they won't find out again you are totally kidding yourself. Bad reputations spread very quickly in this close knit hobby.

 

I NEVER value a show for what I made that weekend. Did I meet new customers? Did I buy good material? How were my sales? How was sales traffic at the show? Did the promoter do his job?

 

I seem to wonder how many of you would do if you had to do trade shows where you made absolutely no money. That the cost of doing that show was to showcase your company, compete for contracts, sales leads etc. The fact that we are doing shows and making money is frankly a very good thing but ultimately the reason I'm doing shows is to drive customers to my website. My goal is to not have to do shows, that most of my sales will come from the website (Which by the way they do).

 

I am also amazed at the dealer that can magically change his entire inventory for shows versus their website listings. God I would love to be able to pull that off.

 

The "No haggler" customer. Again, unless there is a comic vulcan mind meld I'm not sure how I can reach that customer. Fair market value is frankly what that person feels it is. It could be Guide, 10% below guide, 20% below Guide, GPA, Go-Collect, Ebay, Comiclink, Comiconnect or Heritage's last sale. Sometimes I wonder if the world has become so passive aggressive that communicating is considered "confrontation". What am I going to do? Yell at you? Unless I know where you are coming from I'm sort of in the dark as to how you are coming up with the value "in your head".

 

20% off Ebay pricing. Is that 20% discount factoring in the Overgraded Ebay books? If dealers at conventions can't grade god help me if they are somehow on Ebay accurately grading.

 

The other issue I'm seeing and questioning is why do buyers always assume the guy behind the dealer is a professional dealer? It isn't like the promoter is doing a background check on the guy throwing boxes on the table and putting up a sign. I very rarely get asked how I started my business, how long have I been doing this. Who taught me how to grade, how do I spot restoration. I get comments like "I have a nicer copy then you have". My mother threw out my books. I used to have that. Yup, like I haven't heard that 50 thousand times.

 

 

[dupont2005]

I think it's a competitive business, and I think some sellers can really fail when competition gets tough. But there's also at least a handful of convention sellers who earn great money doing it and could easily just go buy a franchise pizza joint or something if they thought that was a better idea. The guys who have been doing it for years and decades and built up millions in inventory gotta be doing something right. I don't think I'd be one of those guys if I tried my hand at it though.

[Cruzin' Thru Comics]

First off, I'm just glad I buy and sell comics for fun. I do it as a hobby and to build my personal collection. I've done smaller and bigger shows in the Los Angeles area and I think many comic book dealers are getting priced out of the bigger shows. I now stick to smaller one day shows. I think you have to put the time in and learn what works for you. I found that I made more and quicker profits picking up bulk lots, letting "full time con dealers" cherry pick the boxes and then sell the rest off for a profit. I went to Lbcc two weekends ago just as a customer. Talked to the dealers I know and they all said the same thing. "Nobody was buying", ""Nobody has any money" etc... I was just glad I hadn't set up that weekend. I picked up some original art from Russ Heath and he signed some books for me. Great time. Funny thing was I was there just for fun and at the end of the day I bought 18 long boxes of bulk for 20 a box from a dealer who was blowing them out. I had a couple dealers cherry pick them at my place and then sold off the rest for a profit of over $400. Unless you're a big timer with af15's and ih181's on the wall I can't see how you can make much paying 1k for a 10x10 selling low end keys and dollar books. I'd rather keep my books then hand over any profits to a promoter.

[1Cool]

I just did a local comic show that was 3 days in length over the last weekend.

Sold a ton of low value books; 0.50 c, $2, $5, etc that I would never have sold via online and I really dislike shipping due to all the risks ( fraud, theft, damage, cost ).

 

Do you feel like the buyers were being "cheap" with their offers especially higher priced books? And if you do not mind me asking how close were you to 10x the cost to set up?

 

Buyers were being very frugal, but I believe it to be more a result of the economy here in Alberta.

 

Did about 65% of costs.

 

Am I reading that right? It cost you $500 to set up for example and you sold $325 (65% of cost)?

 

No sorry, I always aim for 10x booth costs at a show just like KPR suggested. My table space was $400, have to add in other costs to that so lets say my show costs were $500, I did 65% of 10x.

 

I assumed I read what you said wrong since it sounded like you had a pretty good show. Although not 10x I still think 6.5x is pretty good at the bigger shows especially if you can clear out some lesser desired books.

[1Cool]

There are many ways to do it "right" and varying degrees of that combination that will equal success. Andy, Brian, KPR, Rick all have it right.

 

1Cool I think the problem you are missing here is you are unsure why anybody would sell an X-Men #266 for $75 at a show when they could get $90 on EBay. Problem with that EBay sale, you are faceless and that person may never buy a book from you again. At the show, you are now a real human being and the next time he might be looking for an X-Men #1 and go to you first. Now the 15 dollars you missed out on means absolutely nothing at this point.

 

I know I've only been been selling books full time for about 18 months now, but I know when other dealers are asking for my usual table spot from the promoters, or when dealers come to me after the show and give me spoon "for sucking all of the money out of the room" when I did 14k in sales at a one day show with one $80 table last December, I know I'm doing something right.

 

There are many reasons I contribute to this, but my business model is this, I'd rather underprice a book, than overprice a book a hundred times out of a hundred. Cuz the overpriced sale is probably a one time thing, the underpriced book means that customer is coming to your booth first the next show.

 

As for buying it can be done. I went slabbed key shopping at WWChicago and bought DD #1's, Avengers #4's, NYX #3's, GSX #1's etc etc for up to 30% off of GPA. And those are the exact dealers I will go to first, the next convention they are at.

 

 

 

Jim

 

30% off graded hot keys like DD 1 and GSX 1 at a mega Con? You must have been at the right place at the right time since I've never seen a graded mega key for less then 10% off of GPA at a Con - never. The seller must have been really hard up for cash to be blowing out books at that price and I too would hit up those guys again but I would be looking or similar deals. If they started pricing books for near GPA would you continue to buy from them out of loyalty? I find most people just move on to the next good deal and vaguely remember the name of a person who gave them a great deal.

 

Couple examples - I had a New Gods 7 CGC 9.2 on my wall for $400 at Baltimore and not a nibble. Not even a glance at it. Posted both I had on the boards and both sold within a day for that price. Had a nice presenting Strange Adventures 205 on my wall for $200 and had probably 15 people look it over with no offers. Posted it yesterday at lunch and it sold within 10 hours on E-Bay for $200. All of these books I could have priced bulk prices and possibly sold them at the show but why would I do that when quality books sell at FMV all day long??

 

To develop long term customers is a good answer to that question but if those customers are wanting 20-30% off of FMV to seek me out then I'm not sure if I see it as a win especially when you factor in the cost of booths and expenses. I guess if that buyer is buying up Sea Devils and bronze Sgt Rock books at near FMV that I can see bending over backwards to make that guy happy price wise but when 99% of the buyers are asking for books like X-Men 141 and Silver Surfer 3 I just do not see why it makes sense to blow out those type of books?

[Artboy99]

I just did a local comic show that was 3 days in length over the last weekend.

Sold a ton of low value books; 0.50 c, $2, $5, etc that I would never have sold via online and I really dislike shipping due to all the risks ( fraud, theft, damage, cost ).

 

Do you feel like the buyers were being "cheap" with their offers especially higher priced books? And if you do not mind me asking how close were you to 10x the cost to set up?

 

Buyers were being very frugal, but I believe it to be more a result of the economy here in Alberta.

 

Did about 65% of costs.

 

Am I reading that right? It cost you $500 to set up for example and you sold $325 (65% of cost)?

 

No sorry, I always aim for 10x booth costs at a show just like KPR suggested. My table space was $400, have to add in other costs to that so lets say my show costs were $500, I did 65% of 10x.

 

I assumed I read what you said wrong since it sounded like you had a pretty good show. Although not 10x I still think 6.5x is pretty good at the bigger shows especially if you can clear out some lesser desired books.

 

Sold about 4-5 longs of 0.50 c books, I was thrilled.

[Artboy99]

There are many ways to do it "right" and varying degrees of that combination that will equal success. Andy, Brian, KPR, Rick all have it right.

 

1Cool I think the problem you are missing here is you are unsure why anybody would sell an X-Men #266 for $75 at a show when they could get $90 on EBay. Problem with that EBay sale, you are faceless and that person may never buy a book from you again. At the show, you are now a real human being and the next time he might be looking for an X-Men #1 and go to you first. Now the 15 dollars you missed out on means absolutely nothing at this point.

 

I know I've only been been selling books full time for about 18 months now, but I know when other dealers are asking for my usual table spot from the promoters, or when dealers come to me after the show and give me spoon "for sucking all of the money out of the room" when I did 14k in sales at a one day show with one $80 table last December, I know I'm doing something right.

 

There are many reasons I contribute to this, but my business model is this, I'd rather underprice a book, than overprice a book a hundred times out of a hundred. Cuz the overpriced sale is probably a one time thing, the underpriced book means that customer is coming to your booth first the next show.

 

As for buying it can be done. I went slabbed key shopping at WWChicago and bought DD #1's, Avengers #4's, NYX #3's, GSX #1's etc etc for up to 30% off of GPA. And those are the exact dealers I will go to first, the next convention they are at.

 

 

 

Jim

 

30% off graded hot keys like DD 1 and GSX 1 at a mega Con? You must have been at the right place at the right time since I've never seen a graded mega key for less then 10% off of GPA at a Con - never. The seller must have been really hard up for cash to be blowing out books at that price and I too would hit up those guys again but I would be looking or similar deals. If they started pricing books for near GPA would you continue to buy from them out of loyalty? I find most people just move on to the next good deal and vaguely remember the name of a person who gave them a great deal.

 

Couple examples - I had a New Gods 7 CGC 9.2 on my wall for $400 at Baltimore and not a nibble. Not even a glance at it. Posted both I had on the boards and both sold within a day for that price. Had a nice presenting Strange Adventures 205 on my wall for $200 and had probably 15 people look it over with no offers. Posted it yesterday at lunch and it sold within 10 hours on E-Bay for $200. All of these books I could have priced bulk prices and possibly sold them at the show but why would I do that when quality books sell at FMV all day long??

 

To develop long term customers is a good answer to that question but if those customers are wanting 20-30% off of FMV to seek me out then I'm not sure if I see it as a win especially when you factor in the cost of booths and expenses. I guess if that buyer is buying up Sea Devils and bronze Sgt Rock books at near FMV that I can see bending over backwards to make that guy happy price wise but when 99% of the buyers are asking for books like X-Men 141 and Silver Surfer 3 I just do not see why it makes sense to blow out those type of books?

 

I don't blow out these types of books, I stick to close to my asking. I have several shows a year, and I am just as likely to sell the book at the next show. Locally from Sept to mid November there is 5 comic cons.

However, If the customer buying is a regular/ or a friend I am more willing to give a better deal.

[Doktor]

There are many ways to do it "right" and varying degrees of that combination that will equal success. Andy, Brian, KPR, Rick all have it right.

 

1Cool I think the problem you are missing here is you are unsure why anybody would sell an X-Men #266 for $75 at a show when they could get $90 on EBay. Problem with that EBay sale, you are faceless and that person may never buy a book from you again. At the show, you are now a real human being and the next time he might be looking for an X-Men #1 and go to you first. Now the 15 dollars you missed out on means absolutely nothing at this point.

 

I know I've only been been selling books full time for about 18 months now, but I know when other dealers are asking for my usual table spot from the promoters, or when dealers come to me after the show and give me spoon "for sucking all of the money out of the room" when I did 14k in sales at a one day show with one $80 table last December, I know I'm doing something right.

 

There are many reasons I contribute to this, but my business model is this, I'd rather underprice a book, than overprice a book a hundred times out of a hundred. Cuz the overpriced sale is probably a one time thing, the underpriced book means that customer is coming to your booth first the next show.

 

As for buying it can be done. I went slabbed key shopping at WWChicago and bought DD #1's, Avengers #4's, NYX #3's, GSX #1's etc etc for up to 30% off of GPA. And those are the exact dealers I will go to first, the next convention they are at.

 

 

 

Jim

 

30% off graded hot keys like DD 1 and GSX 1 at a mega Con? You must have been at the right place at the right time since I've never seen a graded mega key for less then 10% off of GPA at a Con - never. The seller must have been really hard up for cash to be blowing out books at that price and I too would hit up those guys again but I would be looking or similar deals. If they started pricing books for near GPA would you continue to buy from them out of loyalty? I find most people just move on to the next good deal and vaguely remember the name of a person who gave them a great deal.

 

Couple examples - I had a New Gods 7 CGC 9.2 on my wall for $400 at Baltimore and not a nibble. Not even a glance at it. Posted both I had on the boards and both sold within a day for that price. Had a nice presenting Strange Adventures 205 on my wall for $200 and had probably 15 people look it over with no offers. Posted it yesterday at lunch and it sold within 10 hours on E-Bay for $200. All of these books I could have priced bulk prices and possibly sold them at the show but why would I do that when quality books sell at FMV all day long??

 

To develop long term customers is a good answer to that question but if those customers are wanting 20-30% off of FMV to seek me out then I'm not sure if I see it as a win especially when you factor in the cost of booths and expenses. I guess if that buyer is buying up Sea Devils and bronze Sgt Rock books at near FMV that I can see bending over backwards to make that guy happy price wise but when 99% of the buyers are asking for books like X-Men 141 and Silver Surfer 3 I just do not see why it makes sense to blow out those type of books?

 

It all depends on your margins. If you're buying your inventory at 60% of FMV on average, then selling at 20-30% off FMV probably isn't in the cards unless it's on big $$ books that sell quickly (which are obviously rare). But if you're buying in bulk & can bring the average price down a lot lower, and can turn-over your inventory fast, then that 20% you left on the table is made up by the speed at which you turn over your inventory. Selling 5 $1000 books for $800 each is better than selling 2 $1000 books at $1000 each in the same amount of time if you're buying them for $500.

[romanheart]

All too often and frankly I've read a lot of the same thing in this thread that I have heard since 1973.

 

If your business is to sell comics the purpose of doing shows is to meet customers for the long term. If you don't know your business model don't be surprised if you don't fail. If you cannot identify your customer base then save your money for another business. If you cannot identify your competitors and ask yourself why would customers shop with you versus them then save your money for another business. If you think this business is not hard work then you are totally kidding yourself. If you think you can rip people off and that they won't find out again you are totally kidding yourself. Bad reputations spread very quickly in this close knit hobby.

 

I NEVER value a show for what I made that weekend. Did I meet new customers? Did I buy good material? How were my sales? How was sales traffic at the show? Did the promoter do his job?

 

I seem to wonder how many of you would do if you had to do trade shows where you made absolutely no money. That the cost of doing that show was to showcase your company, compete for contracts, sales leads etc. The fact that we are doing shows and making money is frankly a very good thing but ultimately the reason I'm doing shows is to drive customers to my website. My goal is to not have to do shows, that most of my sales will come from the website (Which by the way they do).

 

I am also amazed at the dealer that can magically change his entire inventory for shows versus their website listings. God I would love to be able to pull that off.

 

The "No haggler" customer. Again, unless there is a comic vulcan mind meld I'm not sure how I can reach that customer. Fair market value is frankly what that person feels it is. It could be Guide, 10% below guide, 20% below Guide, GPA, Go-Collect, Ebay, Comiclink, Comiconnect or Heritage's last sale. Sometimes I wonder if the world has become so passive aggressive that communicating is considered "confrontation". What am I going to do? Yell at you? Unless I know where you are coming from I'm sort of in the dark as to how you are coming up with the value "in your head".

 

20% off Ebay pricing. Is that 20% discount factoring in the Overgraded Ebay books? If dealers at conventions can't grade god help me if they are somehow on Ebay accurately grading.

 

The other issue I'm seeing and questioning is why do buyers always assume the guy behind the dealer is a professional dealer? It isn't like the promoter is doing a background check on the guy throwing boxes on the table and putting up a sign. I very rarely get asked how I started my business, how long have I been doing this. Who taught me how to grade, how do I spot restoration. I get comments like "I have a nicer copy then you have". My mother threw out my books. I used to have that. Yup, like I haven't heard that 50 thousand times.

 

 

I kind of figured that dealers were prepared for a minor loss at conventions. Even at a high traffic convention when you pay the table and the travel/hotel expenses, I think it's pretty hard to break even or turn a profit. This probably depends on the convention of course.

 

I never understood the dealers that literally double the price of their books, overgrade their material, and take up all the floor space. I literally walk buy those dealers now without looking.

[KPR Comics]

 

 

I kind of figured that dealers were prepared for a minor loss at conventions. Even at a high traffic convention when you pay the table and the travel/hotel expenses, I think it's pretty hard to break even or turn a profit. This probably depends on the convention of course.

 

I never understood the dealers that literally double the price of their books, overgrade their material, and take up all the floor space. I literally walk buy those dealers now without looking.

 

Huh?

[october]

 

I kind of figured that dealers were prepared for a minor loss at conventions. Even at a high traffic convention when you pay the table and the travel/hotel expenses, I think it's pretty hard to break even or turn a profit. This probably depends on the convention of course.

 

None of the dealers I know anticipate taking losses at cons. If they do, they generally don't go back.

 

I never struggled turning a profit at a con, though I never did more than one or two a year. I was in the black an hour into setup. It's as easy, or as hard, as you want it to be....especially if you don't have to count on it for a living.

[sleepindeath]

One of my pet peeves about cons is when there isn't a clear price visible on the book. Too many times I asked what the price was and it would be almost double fmv that most of the time now when I see books without pricing I don't even bother. Have the price in Bold on a post it note. Whether it has wiggle room or not.

 

I agree 100%. When there is no price I will just bypass the booth altogether as I find it to be shady. In the past when I have asked what the price is I get one person giving 1 price and another walking over upping it. Total pass asshats

[blazingbob]

My prices are on the back of the book.

 

Frankly I find post it notes unprofessional and not very appealing to look at. If I wanted my booth to look like a flea market I would set up at one.

 

I don't have big stickers that don't come off,

 

Most customers can't even read the post it notes from 6 feet away.

 

I will gladly quote you a price or show you the book.

 

Why are buyers so afraid to ask and see the book? If one book is priced high you assume the guy is a crook? What? I have 35K books in inventory, do you think I update my prices daily?

 

 

 

Bob

[jsilverjanet]

A bird in hand...

 

[ygogolak]

My prices are on the back of the book.

 

Frankly I find post it notes unprofessional and not very appealing to look at. If I wanted my booth to look like a flea market I would set up at one.

 

I don't have big stickers that don't come off,

 

Most customers can't even read the post it notes from 6 feet away.

 

I will gladly quote you a price or show you the book.

 

Why are buyers so afraid to ask and see the book? If one book is priced high you assume the guy is a crook? What? I have 35K books in inventory, do you think I update my prices daily?

 

 

 

Bob

 

If I can quickly see what the price range is for a dealer I will know whether or not it's worth my time at that booth. I like to really hunt and go through as many boxes as I can while I'm there.

[1Cool]

My prices are on the back of the book.

 

Frankly I find post it notes unprofessional and not very appealing to look at. If I wanted my booth to look like a flea market I would set up at one.

 

I don't have big stickers that don't come off,

 

Most customers can't even read the post it notes from 6 feet away.

 

I will gladly quote you a price or show you the book.

 

Why are buyers so afraid to ask and see the book? If one book is priced high you assume the guy is a crook? What? I have 35K books in inventory, do you think I update my prices daily?

 

 

 

Bob

 

If I can quickly see what the price range is for a dealer I will know whether or not it's worth my time at that booth. I like to really hunt and go through as many boxes as I can while I'm there.

 

Price tags are great for flippers but I'd think from a collectors standpoint you would not mind asking for a price on a book since it's a book you need. Of course when even the collectors are pricing out 8 copies of a book before buying I can see why asking for prices of each one would be a drag.

 

[Ryan.]

My prices are on the back of the book.

 

Frankly I find post it notes unprofessional and not very appealing to look at. If I wanted my booth to look like a flea market I would set up at one.

 

I don't have big stickers that don't come off,

 

Most customers can't even read the post it notes from 6 feet away.

 

I will gladly quote you a price or show you the book.

 

Why are buyers so afraid to ask and see the book? If one book is priced high you assume the guy is a crook? What? I have 35K books in inventory, do you think I update my prices daily?

 

 

 

Bob

 

What's different about updating the price on the back of the book or on the front?

 

The price is the conversation starter, not the book itself. If wall books aren't clearly priced I generally move right along.

[THE_BEYONDER]

My prices are on the back of the book.

 

Frankly I find post it notes unprofessional and not very appealing to look at. If I wanted my booth to look like a flea market I would set up at one.

 

I don't have big stickers that don't come off,

 

Most customers can't even read the post it notes from 6 feet away.

 

I will gladly quote you a price or show you the book.

 

Why are buyers so afraid to ask and see the book? If one book is priced high you assume the guy is a crook? What? I have 35K books in inventory, do you think I update my prices daily?

 

 

 

Bob

 

If I can quickly see what the price range is for a dealer I will know whether or not it's worth my time at that booth. I like to really hunt and go through as many boxes as I can while I'm there.

 

Price tags are great for flippers but I'd think from a collectors standpoint you would not mind asking for a price on a book since it's a book you need. Of course when even the collectors are pricing out 8 copies of a book before buying I can see why asking for prices of each one would be a drag.

 

If we're talking raw, you're gonna need to inspect each book anyway. What's another 2 seconds to ask for the price? I like Bobs approach. I don't need to know the price if the condition of front cover doesn't interest me. If it does, it's time to take the book out & hammer out the grade. Then......we can talk about the dealers price tag.

[blazingbob]

X-Men #141 and SS #3 are hard to replace?

 

Are you sure you see the big picture?

 

When sellers are treated fairly and a buyer spends a lot of money relationships are made and future deals come along. If you consistently chew a guy down because of "your profit margin" you aren't going to be the first guy to see my stock when new stuff comes in that I could have given you 20-30% off.