Is Dark Knight the first comic to heat up as a Modern?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Was HTD a conspiracy? Like they purposely printed too little of them to manufacture a collectable. Did the Marvel book say that or is that something I made up in my head? It's happening a lot more as I get older.

 

 

No. People were actively trying to "corner" the market, and the story goes that several people along the distribution line were sucking up all the copies, so that no one actually received many (or any) copies.

 

It absolutely was a "low distribution" book, as opposed to "low print run", because distribution was interrupted. It almost certainly had a print run of 200-300k, normal for #1 issues in the mid-70's.

 

That had happened with Shazam #1 two years earlier, too. The comic book world was in its "#1!!" craze, which is why you see more first issues in the 70's than in any other decade, relative to the total number of titles being published.

 

According to Chuck Rozanski (I think), people were stopping the trucks headed out of Sparta with Shazam #1, and just outright buying the entire contents on the spot.

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

Keeping with the war theme.

Nam #1.

I remember scouring newsstands looking to flip these to my lcs for trades.

 

Yes Nam #1 was an $3 almost immediately and had a 2nd print. But not as close as the $25.00 TDKR #1 commanded almost instantly.

I was getting $10 in trade and that was 1986 money!

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

And so my question is: was there any other modern comic that behaved that way prior that?

 

No

 

 

The very first "instant hit" comic (aside from books like Action #1 and Superman #1, when there wasn't a back issue market to track these things), was Conan #1 (1970).

 

Within a very short period of time of its release, Conan #1 was selling for many multiples of cover price.

 

This coincides with the launch of comic book specialty stores (remember when they were called that?) and organized conventions on a national scale.

 

The argument *can* be made for books like FF #1 and AF #15, but generally it's not, because those books were right before the formal organization of fandom and "buying books because they might become valuable" and "buying multiple copies because they might become valuable", which didn't start happening on any sort of real scale until around 1965, because of books like FF #1 and AF #15, which, in those 3-4 short years, were already selling for $5-$10 each.

 

This is why the early 60's books are worth so vastly much more, especially in very high grade, than books that came out 4-6 years later (like Iron Man #1, Subby #1, SS #1, etc.) People were not only buying to save, they were buying in multiples to save, in ways that had never been done before. (Also, Marvel started selling more, and they had some improvements in their paper stock, which figures a bit into all of this.)

 

Soooo...you get a book like Conan #1, and people flipped out over the art...and within just a few short months, it, too, was a $5-$10 book. GL #76 was also in that mix, but not as much as Conan.

 

The next example you see of this is ASM #121-122. Those were, of course, instant hits, and if Marvel had thought about it, they would have reprinted those books right away.

 

Then you have Shazam #1, and HTD #1, and then, of course, Star Wars #1, which is the granddaddy of all reprinted instant hits.

 

 

 

The question he asked was for modern comics so I answered. He did not frame the question correctly to encompass other comic ages other than the modern age. My answer would have been completely different.

 

 

True, but then, Dark Knight #1 isn't a modern book anymore, either.

 

I think we can safely say that anything from the 20th century is no longer "modern."

 

 

[Gatsby77]

I don't recall the title, but I had a "History of Comics" coffee table book in the early 1990s that confirmed what RMA says about Shazam # 1.

 

It wasn't per Chuck from Mile High, but the book noted that a cartel of investors did indeed buy up several distributor trucks of Shazam # 1in the midwest to the tune of some 40,000 copies. Therefore the book didn't even make it to the stands in some western states, and skyrocketed instantly.

 

It was considered a no-brainer investment since it was a # 1, the return of Captain Marvel (since the 1950s) and guest-starred Superman.

[Brock]

I agree that ASM 252 and Thor 337 were both moderns that followed this path before Dark Knight Returns, but I would probably add TMNT 1 to the list.

 

Then there's a few where I just don't remember the timing. Was Fish Police 1 before or after DKR?

[HouseofComics.Com]

I agree with this thread re Conan, HTD, etc.--you can add Punisher mini 1 and even Web of Spider-Man 1, probably Secret Wars 1 and 8, asissues that went to at least 4x cover very quickly, a year or two before DKR. (Nam is post-DKR btw.)

 

Things like Wolverine mini were available in huge quantities from Koch at $1.50 each in CBG ads in 1984 or so but that's not the same kind of heat that Thor 337 and then ASM 252 had right off the bat.

 

Btw, in SW Michigan, DKR was more like $10-13 that summer, not $25. Remember, it had a basically unprecedentedly high cover price for the time, so it's not even the same multiple as some of the other stuff being discussed.

[shadroch]

Dark Knight was severely under ordered by retailers, many of whom had been terribly burned by Ronin. Most comics were seventy five cents, and the retailer made 25-30 cents on them. Ronin was $2.50 and most shops ordered way too many. Each unsold copy equaled the profit from four or five X-Men sales. I remember guys scoffing at DK, as Ronin sales sucked and Bat man itself was a poor seller. Many shops ordered five- ten copies, compared to 50-75 X-Men.

I think I ordered 15, and when the buzz picked up, was able to advancements another ten.

It quickly was selling for $10-15, where HTD was selling for 20X cover the week it came out in NY.

That was pre Direct Market.

Wasn't involved when Conan and the Fourth World books came out so can't give first hand response.

 

 

[shadroch]

No not that I ever heard of. Stories in your head I think

 

I just dug the book out of the bookcase. P.178 - they only printed 270,000 because of a couple of reasons and comic store owners hoarded them. Prices shot up as owners kept them in back rooms. Now I've read here that the Untold Marvel Story book is full of errors, so….

 

There weren't that many comic shops at the time, and most that existed didn't carry new books.

There was a rumour of a truck carrying half the copies burned, but I think it was more a case of many distributorss seeing a Duck and mistaking it for a child's book and not delivering them.

[Number 6]

Would Marvel's Transformers #1 fall in this category?

 

According to the OSPG there's a 2nd and 3rd printing.

 

I remember as a kid getting the issue #1-3 3-pack and being concerned about whether they were reprints or not because they had the direct market UPC (didn't know what the direct market was at the time). I don't know how I knew there were reprints since no one I knew at school was really that dialed in to collecting comics, but I was aware of the reprints.

 

I hadn't been to a comic shop at that point so I don't know what #1 was selling for after it's release or how soon after.

[HouseofComics.Com]

Exactly. Every couple of years I post on these boards that the only preview image I saw when preordering DKR was one blocky B&W shot of Batman and the new Robin. Not the cover for #1. So I ordered three. Then the first second I saw the cover on publication I said, oh man!

 

People who weren't involved back then don't realize how weak Batman sales were. In 1985 at Chicago ComicCon I was able to buy hand picked Ernie Chan original art Batman action pages for $5. And of course Detective was rumored to be on the cancellation block in the 80s too.

 

 

Dark Knight was severely under ordered by retailers, many of whom had been terribly burned by Ronin. Most comics were seventy five cents, and the retailer made 25-30 cents on them. Ronin was $2.50 and most shops ordered way too many. Each unsold copy equaled the profit from four or five X-Men sales. I remember guys scoffing at DK, as Ronin sales sucked and Bat man itself was a poor seller. Many shops ordered five- ten copies, compared to 50-75 X-Men.

I think I ordered 15, and when the buzz picked up, was able to advancements another ten.

[tth2]

Off the top of my head:

 

Conan #3 (also a low distribution story)

Howard the Duck #1 (already mentioned)

Fish Police #1

Trollords #1

Punisher Mini-series

 

[shadroch]

Boris the Bear, and my personal all time piggy bank- Miami Mice.

Gawd , I loved Comics Value Monthly.

 

[Ken Aldred]

DKR 1 went for double cover very quickly in the UK, even though many dealers appeared to have plenty available. A LCS owner here claimed to several customers that it was in very short supply while I watched him pulling copies from a large stack in a box behind the counter, which somewhat destroyed the mystique. Fairly similar at comic marts at the time, as well.

[jaeldubyoo]

I was too young to provide a first hand account, but all the stories I have read about Howard the Duck #1 are that it was $15+ within days of hitting the stands. That is 60x cover within days.

 

In Vancouver, BC, HtD #1 hit a monstrous $3 days after release. The same retail value as Capt America #100 vf at my LCS. <3

 

HTD #1 rated a mention about how it was an "over-night collectors item" in the next OPG (#7).

It was listed as $7.50 in mint.

[Designer Toast]

I bought multiples of the first copies of Boris the Bear and Dark Horse Presents. I sold out of all copies of each with both books selling for $12 each the following week.

 

This is after DKR, but I remember selling copies of Longbow Hunters for $15 a pop.

[Brandon Shepherd]

Exactly. Every couple of years I post on these boards that the only preview image I saw when preordering DKR was one blocky B&W shot of Batman and the new Robin. Not the cover for #1. So I ordered three. Then the first second I saw the cover on publication I said, oh man!

 

People who weren't involved back then don't realize how weak Batman sales were. In 1985 at Chicago ComicCon I was able to buy hand picked Ernie Chan original art Batman action pages for $5. And of course Detective was rumored to be on the cancellation block in the 80s too.

 

I had no idea this was the case for Detective, I also didn't know Batman sales were down during this time.

[Ken Aldred]

I bought multiples of the first copies of Boris the Bear and Dark Horse Presents. I sold out of all copies of each with both books selling for $12 each the following week.

 

This is after DKR, but I remember selling copies of Longbow Hunters for $15 a pop.

 

From around the same time, Batman : The Cult 1.

 

Quite pricey in the UK.

[ThreeSeas]

Fish Police, Troll Lords, Boris the Bear, Miami Mice, The Realm, The Walking Dead (not related to the current comic), Adolescent Radioactive Blackbelt Hampsters (or was it Gerbils?), a couple of more TMNT inspired, and many others I have forgotten about, all seemed to increase in price right away.

 

It seemed like a lot of black and white comics were instantly hot back then. Luckily the comic shop I was buying from sold them to me at cover (or typically 25% less) even though they were already climbing in price by the time I made my weekly pickup. Knowing that I did not pay a whole lot for them made it less painful to see the inflated prices eventually drop.

 

It bothered me that a few of them were not included in Overstreet. In the upcoming months I will be digging through those b & w's and I will see if they ever made it in that guide book.

 

Some b & w's were really popular 30 years ago. The Fish Police even had a short lived TV show. So many of those b & w comics were just plain strange, some were cringe-worthy, and some had what I thought were good stories and artwork.

 

Ah, the days of being able to buy a whole stack of new comics for $25 or so I do miss.

[Logan510]

I was too young to provide a first hand account, but all the stories I have read about Howard the Duck #1 are that it was $15+ within days of hitting the stands. That is 60x cover within days.

 

In Vancouver, BC, HtD #1 hit a monstrous $3 days after release. The same retail value as Capt America #100 vf at my LCS. <3

 

HTD #1 rated a mention about how it was an "over-night collectors item" in the next OPG (#7).

It was listed as $7.50 in mint.

 

 

I love how they say "distribution problems". Yes, it's certainly a problem when distributors were selling this book under the table in quantity and not actually "distributing" it.

[Aweandlorder]

Would Marvel's Transformers #1 fall in this category?

 

According to the OSPG there's a 2nd and 3rd printing.

 

I remember as a kid getting the issue #1-3 3-pack and being concerned about whether they were reprints or not because they had the direct market UPC (didn't know what the direct market was at the time). I don't know how I knew there were reprints since no one I knew at school was really that dialed in to collecting comics, but I was aware of the reprints.

 

I hadn't been to a comic shop at that point so I don't know what #1 was selling for after it's release or how soon after.

 

OSPG doesnt even make mention of specific reprints of Transformers as late as 1987. It simply says in notes: reprints of certain issues exist.

It was certainly selling for more than cover but not that high