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1:10, 1:25, 1:50, 1:100 are DISTRIBUTION numbers, not PRINT RUN numbers.
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Started by RockMyAmadeus,

301 posts in this topic

MetalPSI

MetalPSI

Posted
Posted
Also notice who started the thread with facts, which you don't understand, then go on your own tirade of what is fact.

 

And here we are.

 

Glad to see someone keeping track of my strikes. I cannot be bothered since button pushers are boring

 

Actually the majority of his first post is his opinion. Especially the second half where he says people "can't" or "shouldn't" estimate whatever the hell they want to estimate however the hell they want to do it. All that is his opinion. This thread is his forum for expressing it. He was free to start it for that purpose.

 

No need to rehash all that though.

 

And I am sorry to hear about your employment situation. Hope things turn around soon.

 

Go Canucks.

 

-J.

 

Don't be. I'm not. And you aren't lol

 

Come now, lets see those facts. Like it's been said, put your money where your mouth is

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drotto

drotto

Posted
Posted (edited)

What we do know is that publishers base print runs on a number of factors, but we do not know exactly what the final number is. They do not want to grossly overprint because that is wasted money, but they do somewhat over print to account for spoilage, etc. Some things that come into account are...

 

1. Previous sales figures for that book, or books using the similar characters (in the case of new series).

2. Estimated sales for the issue being printed using adjustments for sales trends up or down, or any new story line, creators etc. which could effect sales.

3. Number of issues ordered.

3. Additional books needed internally or for promotional reasons that are not included in diamond figures.

4. Spoilage

 

I am sure there are other factors.

 

So the publisher does take many factors into how many they print. The have formulas and estimates that they use to insure that they have enough copies, but also maintain good profitability. It is far beyond me to extrapolate an exact print run number.

 

Do I feel the diamond number can get you in the ballpark? Sure, it gives a rough guess. It does also show trends. So a very popular book that reports 150,000 sold through Diamond by extension SHOULD have more copies of both standard and variants in the wild, then a book reported to have 25,000 printed. The publisher (as long as a publisher is logical) will print more copies of a higher ordered book. These numbers can be used to judge relative rarity to another book. It will also tell us if a book is getting more or less popular by comparing the month to month orders.

 

What it does not tell us is the exact number printed. Again this gets more complicated with ratios, which only determine when special covers get released initially, not how many were made. I am sure the publisher applies the same process to printing variants as it does to the standard print run, you just add in one more variable, the number of stores expected to order enough standard copies to qualify for the special copies.

Edited by drotto
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bababooey

bababooey

Posted
Posted

My assumptions as it relates to Diamond's NA sales estimates is that the greater the number sold to dealers will likely reflect a higher print run, just as a lower sales figure is probably an indication of a lower print run.

 

My assumptions as it relates to incentive variants is that there would likely be more copies of a 1:10 variant than a 1:100 variant of the same issue.

 

These are my opinions presuming that people in the industry aren't printing stuff that no one ordered. I realize at any time some guru in marketing might request an excess printing of some 1:100 to fatten up retailers' swag bags at the next retailer summit, so for that and 50 other reasons nothing is etched in stone with regard to supply.

 

Ultimately if you're talking about these variants, no one cares about them or the ratio/potential print run until they become "a thing", most could be pulped and no one would care.

 

The bad part of the variant incentive program is the desire created among collectors influenced to "need something" simply because of rarity or inflated prices, it perpetuates a demand for more "opportunities to strike it rich" each Wednesday & the variant program essentially makes most standard issues worthless since some dealers overstock to attain thresholds to feed customer demand created by the irrational variant market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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MetalPSI

MetalPSI

Posted
Posted
Following RMA around to troll people he disagrees with would be a full time job.

 

 

lol

 

so true

 

Let's keep things professional, shall we...?

 

I had used pretty poor wording on that. The reality is if I were to follow you around to harass people who choose to argue with you, that would be a full time job.

 

Case in point...

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted

Case in point, and as requested by RMA.....

 

Here is what just four knowlegeable boardies and Diamond account holders have had to say about variant print runs, printing standards in genral , and publishers' printing to the nearest case pack. There are many, many more examples , but these contain the posts that best and most concisely make the relevant points. A greatest hits, if you will:

 

From Wowithurts, regarding typcial, competent publishing standards:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=399310&Number=9126246#Post9126246

 

From paul747, in a PM to me regarding publishers printing to the nearest case pack (obviously pertaining to the ASM 667 Dell'otto. He later got back to me with even more specific info on that book, which he asked me not to share publicly , so I won't.) :

 

Thanks Jay ! happy holidays . As for those AMS variants I like them but never studied them. I think you are more of an expert on those. I do know that the recalled comics site does make some mistakes and marvel will always print an even case number no matter what. so if they needed 400 variants to cover there initial orders they would order probably 3 cases of 200/250 depending

 

 

here is the solicit for that book:

 

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #667 DELLOTO VAR SPI

MARVEL COMICS

Written by DAN SLOTT

Pencils by HUMBERTO RAMOS

Variant Cover by GABRIELE DELL'OTTO

THE SPIDER-MAN EVENT OF THE DECADE BEGINS!

Start Webbing The News! New York City's Infestation is complete and eight million people are plagued! As someone near to Peter Parker's life reveals their spider-abilities, the brilliantly fearsome Jackal rises from the past and begins organizing an army of Spider-powered soldiers. Spider-Man isn't the only hero affected as the threat goon grows bigger than any one Fantastically Friendly Neighborhood Avenger can handle. Best-selling Spidey creators Dan Slott and Humberto Ramos spin a Spider-epic that turns Peter Parker's BIG TIME into a BIG MESS. Bad romance, death-defying violence and one man facing his FINAL fearsome destiny... this one's got it all! Simply put, pal....YOU NEED THIS!

32 PGS./Rated A ...$3.99

Product Update (7/18/2011): Now carries a Marvel T rating (appropriate for ages 9 & up)

Item Code

Stock Status MAY118321

Stock #

STK450884

UPC

75960604716166731

Discount Code

D

DCD P.O. Minimum

10

Price Before Discount

$3.99

PREVIEWS Consumer Price

$3.99

Category Code

1

Genre Code

SH

Brand Code

SM

Item Status

Stock Status Out of Stock; no B/O

FOC/OIC Date

7/18/2011

Est Ship Date

8/10/2011

Date Shipped

8/10/2011

Pages

32

Color

FC

Series Frequency

M

Case Dimension

0.07(h)x10.2(d)x6.6(w)

Case Pack

1

Warning (NOTE: YOU MAY ORDER 1 VARIANT FOR EVERY 100 REGULAR YOU PURCHASE.) - wsteph

 

 

and here is the regular copy solicit:

 

Item Status

Stock Status Out of Stock; no B/O

FOC/OIC Date

7/18/2011

Est Ship Date

8/10/2011

Date Shipped

8/10/2011

Pages

32

Color

FC

Series Frequency

M

Case Dimension

7(h)x14(d)x10.8(w)

Case Pack

225

 

 

As you can see the case pack for the variant is going to be the same 225 per case. if you knew the initial order number we could come close on the 1:100 variant printing number

 

the CC print number is :6 Amazing Spider-Man 667 $3.99 Marvel 71,235

 

I would estimate to say that they ordered at the least 225 variants and no more that 450 for this book. the initial ordering would have been a known number. i would estimate that only 20 percent of the initial order where stores that ordered 100 copies. they will always order the case minimum. it is very possible jay that this book only had 225 variants. but it could be 450 .. mHO !

 

 

From Chuck Gower , regarding Marvel's "PR stance" related to printing incentives close to orders , up to the nearest case pack (he goes in to greater detail over a couple of pages , but later seems to imply that he doesn't really believe Marvel (or Diamond). I suppose that's where I originally got the idea that some believe in a "vast publisher conspiracy" when it comes to ratio variants lol ):

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9137981&fpart=6

 

 

And From Larryscomics in a recent post, referring again , to books being printed , rounded up to the nearest case pack:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=238508&Number=9602466#Post9602466

 

All of this is supported by my own independent research , including just chatting up a couple of local lcs owners. This is the difference between someone stating their own "opinion" and making "assumptions" to support a preconceived and obviously prejudiced conclusion, and actually fact gathering and paying attention to what other knowledgeable boardies repeatedly state.

 

Facts. :cloud9:

 

It's been fun gents. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

 

 

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rjrjr

rjrjr

Posted
Posted
Case in point, and as requested by RMA.....

 

Here is what just four knowlegeable boardies and Diamond account holders have had to say about variant print runs, printing standards in genral , and publishers' printing to the nearest case pack. There are many, many more examples , but these contain the posts that best and most concisely make the relevant points. A greatest hits, if you will:

 

From Chuck Gower , regarding Marvel's "PR stance" related to printing incentives close to orders , up to the nearest case pack (he goes in to greater detail over a couple of pages , but later seems to imply that he doesn't really believe Marvel (or Diamond). I suppose that's where I originally got the idea that some believe in a "vast publisher conspiracy" when it comes to ratio variants lol ):

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9137981&fpart=6

 

 

I just read through the entire thread and never once did Chuck Gower say Marvel prints to the nearest case. what he did say was:

 

And once again, let's be clear: MARVEL's PR stance is that they are printing close to the incentive amount. No one else can actually verify this, including Diamond.

 

Marvel, of course, NEEDS to have this believed, as the perception of rarity for these things is necessary to make retailers increase their orders, and for the customers to continue to buy them at a premium price, so that the cycle continues.

 

Unfortunately for them, their actions continue to show that they HAVE NOT at times followed this. And we have no idea at how many times they haven't followed it, as we have no idea how many times they actually HAVE followed it.

 

All we know FOR SURE, is that there are a couple of instances where they haven't:

2013 across the board for all variants, an overflow that they made available to Diamond to see, well after the relate date.

 

And last year with their two biggest incentive variant sellers.

 

Nothing about cases whatsoever. But evidence that Marvel has a PR stance they don't follow.

 

Unfortunately I don't have the time to read through all the other threads.

 

Interesting discussion.

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Santos208

Santos208

Posted
Posted (edited)

Shop A order 85 copies of Tacoboy #1 [gets 3 1:25s, 1 1:50, and 1 1:75]

 

Shop B orders 74 copies of Tacoboy #1 [gets 2 1:25s, 1 1:50, and 0 1:75.

 

Shop A and B total equals 159 copies of Tacoboy #1. That means there should be two 1:75s, 3 1:50s, and six 1:25s.......but lets look at the scenerio a lil closer.

 

 

:ohnoez:

 

 

Mindblown.

 

 

 

 

 

 

or am.I wrong?

 

 

 

Edited by Santos208
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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
Case in point, and as requested by RMA.....

 

Here is what just four knowlegeable boardies and Diamond account holders have had to say about variant print runs, printing standards in genral , and publishers' printing to the nearest case pack. There are many, many more examples , but these contain the posts that best and most concisely make the relevant points. A greatest hits, if you will:

 

From Chuck Gower , regarding Marvel's "PR stance" related to printing incentives close to orders , up to the nearest case pack (he goes in to greater detail over a couple of pages , but later seems to imply that he doesn't really believe Marvel (or Diamond). I suppose that's where I originally got the idea that some believe in a "vast publisher conspiracy" when it comes to ratio variants lol ):

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9137981&fpart=6

 

 

I just read through the entire thread and never once did Chuck Gower say Marvel prints to the nearest case. what he did say was:

 

And once again, let's be clear: MARVEL's PR stance is that they are printing close to the incentive amount. No one else can actually verify this, including Diamond.

 

Marvel, of course, NEEDS to have this believed, as the perception of rarity for these things is necessary to make retailers increase their orders, and for the customers to continue to buy them at a premium price, so that the cycle continues.

 

Unfortunately for them, their actions continue to show that they HAVE NOT at times followed this. And we have no idea at how many times they haven't followed it, as we have no idea how many times they actually HAVE followed it.

 

All we know FOR SURE, is that there are a couple of instances where they haven't:

2013 across the board for all variants, an overflow that they made available to Diamond to see, well after the relate date.

 

And last year with their two biggest incentive variant sellers.

 

Nothing about cases whatsoever. But evidence that Marvel has a PR stance they don't follow.

 

Unfortunately I don't have the time to read through all the other threads.

 

Interesting discussion.

 

Then you didn't read closely enough:

 

They recently have come under criticism for Star Wars Variants and Action Figure Variants that have suddenly appeared directly from them, much after the fact. This mysterious additional glut of product has led to them to take a hard line PR stance that variants are printed to order and rounded up to the case pack size.

 

And in my research, if you've ever wondered who actually reads these forums, let me just say: I love Marvel Comics! I love DC Comics! I love Image Comics! I love Valiant Comics! I love Diamond Distribution!

 

I don't care HOW you guys do your variants, I just want to sell as much at the retail level as I possibly can!

 

 

But, yeah, they're probably just lying. :eyeroll:

 

-J.

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