For those who speculate in brand new comics...

[Pinky Lee Zepplin]

how can i stop the next greedy guy who sees them from grabbing them all...i'm just keeping them out of the hands of evil investors .

 

It's really up to the store to institute a 1 or 2 copy per customer rule. My local shop limits each person to 1 copy. Which is uber-stringent, but it also prevents people from buying all the copies. I'd be happy with a 2 issue limit, one for storage/grading, one for reading, but if more stores did this, it would help eliminate this issue you speak of.

 

I pre-order titles I'm interested in sitting on and/or grading lots of. I have no problem with in store limits and ultimately it's good for the industry. We need new fans, we need new readers, no current books on the shelves makes attracting new fans harder to accomplish.

 

Our largest LCS instituted this policy and I haven't stepped foot in the store for the 2 years since they did. The owner explained to me that only 8% of his total sales were back issues. This is ironic since back issues also represented the majority of his total inventory. MTG and other games were providing the majority of his income but he was using approximately 80% of his space for comics and TPB . Units sitting as inventory are a cost to a business. If you save a copy for everyone, you do away with demand and urgency. You make a certain group of buyers happy. On the other hand, another group of buyers spends considerably less or even no money on your books. Having successfully worked in a goods based business for the last 25+ years, this philosophy is baffling to me. Pure readers will do what I do when they miss a book and read it digitally or chase it down on ebay.

 

This is not meant to be a knock on all shops. If a shop supports their customers, then customers should certainly support their LCS. If however that shop makes sure that no one wins, then everybody loses and I certainly wouldn't support that shop.

 

I'm talking just new release books, have a rule for 2-3 weeks on them, everything else is fair game. It's up to each store, and if it hurts their business I'm sure they'll reconsider.

[the blob]

And that hurts creators, greatly, because while many books...like Skullkickers...enjoy great first issue sales, sales of subsequent issues fall off rapidly, because of the lack of availability at the stores (or being forced to pay a higher than cover price on the "after" market.)

 

---

I am not sure this is true for this particular book. And less so in a world where 2d, third, 4th, etc. prints come out. Just look at Chew. And Chew sustained it for a while.

 

 

I believe there were a billion Skullkickers 2 printed. I own about 25 of them. (yes, I bought them, for nothing, after the series lost steam, as one of my "wait and see" buys...maybe the series bounces back, gets a TV show, etc -- I liked the first few issues...hey, it's worked before!)

 

And issue #1 had various prints.

 

Zub did well in the beginning on that one.

[the blob]

Rock is on a roll this week.

 

The point about scarfing up low-print #1's is an excellent one and so very true. It also creates the false impression that there are several hundred or even thousand individuals out there that are into your project, when, in actuality, its inflated several times over because of speculation that won't be there when you print the second issue. Must make it hard for publishers to anticipate upcoming print runs.

 

I don't know how quickly a second print can get rolled out. Can it happen before #2 comes out?

 

Not to mention, the book selling for $10-$25 on ebay shows a market. If people scooped up copies and it's only selling for $2 on ebay, then that's a pretty good sign that #2 and #3 aren't going anywhere.

 

Is there an actual example of a book that got its #1s snarfed up that was hurt long-term by this?

 

Because I don't think Skullkickers or Chew are good examples.

[the blob]

They wont care. People speculating on new issues don't care a lick about our industry for the most part.

 

Nope. They care about money. No one wants #17 of any new series even if the story is great, unless its got a limited cover and a low print run. If enjoying books is your goal then CGC or any grading company forum is probably not where you are for the most part. I haven't read a book in forever, and my friends that do read the online stuff. I'm surprised print is still even a thing to be honest.

 

Well, unless it is Walking Dead where virtually every other issue has some semi-keyiness to it.

 

Or Deadpool.

 

Or Harley Quinn.

[the blob]

Again we may also be looking at the problem of creating false demand with very low print runs. Companies are not in the business of losing money. They are not going to allow a large print run for an unproven title. So they allow these low runs to asses demand, and get some investment back. If a title hits, they can always print more. They will make the same amount even if it is a second run. The speculator on the other hand snatches up these low runs in the hope that it hits big. Speculators are not readers. The company then prints more based on this speculation, they are doing it on that and not a found audience. In the end you create a short lived title based on speculation and not establishing a base that wants to read a book every month. In the end there were no readers only speculators.

 

There was some genuine buzz on Skullkickers, not just because of the relatively low print-run. I liked the series and probably bought the first 3-4 issues off the rack. And then I decided there were other things to spend money on. Still thought it was a fun read. Did the same with Chew and a few others. Once I see issues in the overstock box deep discounted I tend to stop buying even if I am not buying to flip (which I am generally not doing on issues 2, 3, etc. of a new series that I am reading) That is, of course, a terrible thing to do (not that losing me is going to kill a series...), but frankly, I'm not buying many new issues anyway.

 

I had that "limit" imposed on me at a shop I used to go to frequently...Southern Bastards was at issue #3 and they had a bunch of #1s still on the rack, various covers. So I decided to get one of each cover they had. The clerk stopped me (and then tried to decide which cover he would let me buy, to which I corrected him and reminded him that I was the customer and I decided)...I explained to him that the purpose of selling multiple covers is to get insufficiently_thoughtful_persons like me buy them all, but he would have none of it and said they want to give everyone a chance to read the book...to which I pointed out it was at issue #3 at this point....Anyway, I was talking to a wall.

 

I completed my purchase because my son was with me and I had promised him something (I should have just walked out), but I never went back. They closed up a few months later. This "limit" rule was imposed toward the start of their death spiral as I had never been stopped from buying multiples before. (This store did not sell back issues. Anything non-current would be put out on the stands at cover price or in a 5 cent box.)

[ParamagicFF]

how can i stop the next greedy guy who sees them from grabbing them all...i'm just keeping them out of the hands of evil investors .

 

It's really up to the store to institute a 1 or 2 copy per customer rule. My local shop limits each person to 1 copy. Which is uber-stringent, but it also prevents people from buying all the copies. I'd be happy with a 2 issue limit, one for storage/grading, one for reading, but if more stores did this, it would help eliminate this issue you speak of.

 

I pre-order titles I'm interested in sitting on and/or grading lots of. I have no problem with in store limits and ultimately it's good for the industry. We need new fans, we need new readers, no current books on the shelves makes attracting new fans harder to accomplish.

 

Our largest LCS instituted this policy and I haven't stepped foot in the store for the 2 years since they did. The owner explained to me that only 8% of his total sales were back issues. This is ironic since back issues also represented the majority of his total inventory. MTG and other games were providing the majority of his income but he was using approximately 80% of his space for comics and TPB . Units sitting as inventory are a cost to a business. If you save a copy for everyone, you do away with demand and urgency. You make a certain group of buyers happy. On the other hand, another group of buyers spends considerably less or even no money on your books. Having successfully worked in a goods based business for the last 25+ years, this philosophy is baffling to me. Pure readers will do what I do when they miss a book and read it digitally or chase it down on ebay.

 

This is not meant to be a knock on all shops. If a shop supports their customers, then customers should certainly support their LCS. If however that shop makes sure that no one wins, then everybody loses and I certainly wouldn't support that shop.

 

I spent a non-trivial part of my life managing a comic shop, so I can speak to a few of these points. We were a medium/large sized store, but not heavily involved in the speculation/ebay business. The store was in an area with other competing shops. The store is still open, I just moved into a different profession.

 

Many shops that do gaming/magic make most of their profit from these products. They do not take up a lot of shelf space, and you don't get increasing returns by increasing space allotted to them after a certain extent. They are great for profits as they require very little handling/space for their profit as compared to comics. Often times back issue space can be used for after hours gaming events, so the cost of storage is mitigated.

 

Back issues of a certain quality may be a smaller percentage of total sales, however they are almost a guarantee to a certain amount of customers who will walk in and pick through random issues. There are many more of these people than you would think.

 

Subscribers are the backbone of the comic business. Most of ours did not get previews, and they shopped by browsing new releases, or talking to retailers about new books. If they can't see the new #1, they won't be reading the series.

 

There are MANY people who do not subscribe, but come in every Wednesday and buy consistently. If you don't have what they expect, you will get bumped for another shop in the area. I was very surprised by the high number of customers like this. Even ones who purchased high volumes weekly.

 

The guys who come in to buy variants and speculate do very little for your business. We did much better offering variants at cover to larger/reliable subscribers.

[drotto]

how can i stop the next greedy guy who sees them from grabbing them all...i'm just keeping them out of the hands of evil investors .

 

It's really up to the store to institute a 1 or 2 copy per customer rule. My local shop limits each person to 1 copy. Which is uber-stringent, but it also prevents people from buying all the copies. I'd be happy with a 2 issue limit, one for storage/grading, one for reading, but if more stores did this, it would help eliminate this issue you speak of.

 

I pre-order titles I'm interested in sitting on and/or grading lots of. I have no problem with in store limits and ultimately it's good for the industry. We need new fans, we need new readers, no current books on the shelves makes attracting new fans harder to accomplish.

 

Our largest LCS instituted this policy and I haven't stepped foot in the store for the 2 years since they did. The owner explained to me that only 8% of his total sales were back issues. This is ironic since back issues also represented the majority of his total inventory. MTG and other games were providing the majority of his income but he was using approximately 80% of his space for comics and TPB . Units sitting as inventory are a cost to a business. If you save a copy for everyone, you do away with demand and urgency. You make a certain group of buyers happy. On the other hand, another group of buyers spends considerably less or even no money on your books. Having successfully worked in a goods based business for the last 25+ years, this philosophy is baffling to me. Pure readers will do what I do when they miss a book and read it digitally or chase it down on ebay.

 

This is not meant to be a knock on all shops. If a shop supports their customers, then customers should certainly support their LCS. If however that shop makes sure that no one wins, then everybody loses and I certainly wouldn't support that shop.

 

I spent a non-trivial part of my life managing a comic shop, so I can speak to a few of these points. We were a medium/large sized store, but not heavily involved in the speculation/ebay business. The store was in an area with other competing shops. The store is still open, I just moved into a different profession.

 

Many shops that do gaming/magic make most of their profit from these products. They do not take up a lot of shelf space, and you don't get increasing returns by increasing space allotted to them after a certain extent. They are great for profits as they require very little handling/space for their profit as compared to comics. Often times back issue space can be used for after hours gaming events, so the cost of storage is mitigated.

 

Back issues of a certain quality may be a smaller percentage of total sales, however they are almost a guarantee to a certain amount of customers who will walk in and pick through random issues. There are many more of these people than you would think.

 

Subscribers are the backbone of the comic business. Most of ours did not get previews, and they shopped by browsing new releases, or talking to retailers about new books. If they can't see the new #1, they won't be reading the series.

 

There are MANY people who do not subscribe, but come in every Wednesday and buy consistently. If you don't have what they expect, you will get bumped for another shop in the area. I was very surprised by the high number of customers like this. Even ones who purchased high volumes weekly.

 

The guys who come in to buy variants and speculate do very little for your business. We did much better offering variants at cover to larger/reliable subscribers.

 

From what I see of my LCS this is 100% true. He has a solid and loyal subscription base, and I can attest to this because I see the same people in the store every Wednesday. He sells a fair amount of cards, but devotes very little space to them (mainly new packs only). He has a fair amount of space for figures of various types, and a reasonable but not large area for long boxes, and graphic novels. About 25% of his wall space is devoted to recent issues. He also has two selves of higher value comics, that are generally fairly priced and seem tied to recent eBay sales. He is not one to jack up prices and sit on books, his prices are done to move at a reasonable rate.

 

End result.... he has been there for 10 plus years, and is very stable.

[the blob]

So don't put all your issues of a title out on the rack at once? If you want to hold back some copies to suggest to loyal pull-list people then do it. They'll be less chewed up that way. I'm ok with a 2 copy limit or whatever, I was really irritated with not letting me get one of each cover.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Subscribers are the backbone of the comic business. Most of ours did not get previews, and they shopped by browsing new releases, or talking to retailers about new books. If they can't see the new #1, they won't be reading the series.

 

This, this, a thousand times, this.

 

If it's not on the shelf, they won't buy it. Few readers are going to wait around for a second, third, fourth print, and, frankly, it's not fair for them to have to.

 

This.

[SquareChaos]

 

Subscribers are the backbone of the comic business. Most of ours did not get previews, and they shopped by browsing new releases, or talking to retailers about new books. If they can't see the new #1, they won't be reading the series.

 

This, this, a thousand times, this.

 

If it's not on the shelf, they won't buy it. Few readers are going to wait around for a second, third, fourth print, and, frankly, it's not fair for them to have to.

 

This.

 

I'm not on the 'other' side of this discussion as this comment may suggest... but in this day and age, with the internet being what it is, it boggles my mind to read that the majority of pull list holders (even at a particular location) aren't on top of what's coming down the pike.

 

I find it difficult to believe.

[ParamagicFF]

 

Subscribers are the backbone of the comic business. Most of ours did not get previews, and they shopped by browsing new releases, or talking to retailers about new books. If they can't see the new #1, they won't be reading the series.

 

This, this, a thousand times, this.

 

If it's not on the shelf, they won't buy it. Few readers are going to wait around for a second, third, fourth print, and, frankly, it's not fair for them to have to.

 

This.

 

I'm not on the 'other' side of this discussion as this comment may suggest... but in this day and age, with the internet being what it is, it boggles my mind to read that the majority of pull list holders (even at a particular location) aren't on top of what's coming down the pike.

 

I find it difficult to believe.

 

I am your enigma then! Formerly involved as a retailer, and an avid fan of multiple genres of books, it would be very hard to stay up on everything. I'd rather spend that time reading new books than researching!

[dupont2005]

 

Subscribers are the backbone of the comic business. Most of ours did not get previews, and they shopped by browsing new releases, or talking to retailers about new books. If they can't see the new #1, they won't be reading the series.

 

This, this, a thousand times, this.

 

If it's not on the shelf, they won't buy it. Few readers are going to wait around for a second, third, fourth print, and, frankly, it's not fair for them to have to.

 

This.

 

I'm not on the 'other' side of this discussion as this comment may suggest... but in this day and age, with the internet being what it is, it boggles my mind to read that the majority of pull list holders (even at a particular location) aren't on top of what's coming down the pike.

 

I find it difficult to believe.

the pull list customers probably know fairly well what's coming up. I imagine things like Black Eyed Kids might miss their radar until after it's shipped, but any big publisher stuff they'd add to the list.

 

But a ton of LCS shoppers don't have a pull list, don't read previews, and aren't on these forums. They just kind of walk in on Wednesday, or Friday after everything hot is long gone.

 

I had trouble getting #1 issues from Image a few years back because I had to work Wednesdays and some local flippers would clean the isles every new comic book day. Why not add it to the pull list? I would. The shops policy was to stock the shelves first, the pull boxes last, with whatever was left.

 

So then I switched from the LCS to HeavyInk and they did the same thing to me twice with hot books that I had to get on eBay and buy for $25 even though I had preordered them. At that point I said screw it and stopped buying floppies completely. Now I trade wait

[SquareChaos]

I had trouble getting #1 issues from Image a few years back because I had to work Wednesdays and some local flippers would clean the isles every new comic book day. Why not add it to the pull list? I would. The shops policy was to stock the shelves first, the pull boxes last, with whatever was left.

 

This makes so little sense. That policy is just begging what would be your core clients to up and go elsewhere. As you rightly did.

[Kevin76]

The problem with Indies isn't the work being done, it's the start up of building a brand. No one knows these small companies and they typically don't have the capital to start up their brand properly as well as have the know how about marketing. It's really 1 guy/girl or a collaboration with a few bucks in their pockets to pay for a print run which is why they end up starving to death. Passion isn't guaranteed sales.

[the blob]

I had trouble getting #1 issues from Image a few years back because I had to work Wednesdays and some local flippers would clean the isles every new comic book day. Why not add it to the pull list? I would. The shops policy was to stock the shelves first, the pull boxes last, with whatever was left.

 

This makes so little sense. That policy is just begging what would be your core clients to up and go elsewhere. As you rightly did.

 

Sounds like brain damaged comic shop owners.

 

Or was there no deposit/way to enforce your pull list and they were constantly getting burned by people ordering huge files and never picking them up?

[dupont2005]

I had trouble getting #1 issues from Image a few years back because I had to work Wednesdays and some local flippers would clean the isles every new comic book day. Why not add it to the pull list? I would. The shops policy was to stock the shelves first, the pull boxes last, with whatever was left.

 

This makes so little sense. That policy is just begging what would be your core clients to up and go elsewhere. As you rightly did.

 

Sounds like brain damaged comic shop owners.

 

Or was there no deposit/way to enforce your pull list and they were constantly getting burned by people ordering huge files and never picking them up?

My pull list had maybe 15-20 titles, but almost none of them monthly. I came in at least once a month, usually once a week, to have about 3-4 titles sitting in there. I wasn't running up $100+ tabs with him.

 

Another reason why I left, which is kind of off topic, but he would REFUSE to order anything from the smaller publishers. It's like he would only order from the first five or six publishers in Previews and that's it. I put Love And Rockets on my pull, it was annual at the time. First year it didn't show up, he said he didn't see it, because he didn't look. So I ordered it from Fantagraphics and paid for the shipping. Second year I decided to remind him it was coming up. Wrote it down and everything. When I did he said "Fanta... graphics? Never heard of that!" Amazing for a comic shop owner to say that. It would be like a mechanic saying "Hyundai... Never heard of that!" What ended up in my pull box was Love And Capes. I even wrote down the publisher for him and he still got it wrong. He just didn't give a mess.

[LarrysComics]

 

Subscribers are the backbone of the comic business. Most of ours did not get previews, and they shopped by browsing new releases, or talking to retailers about new books. If they can't see the new #1, they won't be reading the series.

 

This, this, a thousand times, this.

 

If it's not on the shelf, they won't buy it. Few readers are going to wait around for a second, third, fourth print, and, frankly, it's not fair for them to have to.

 

This.

 

I'm not on the 'other' side of this discussion as this comment may suggest... but in this day and age, with the internet being what it is, it boggles my mind to read that the majority of pull list holders (even at a particular location) aren't on top of what's coming down the pike.

 

I find it difficult to believe.

the pull list customers probably know fairly well what's coming up. I imagine things like Black Eyed Kids might miss their radar until after it's shipped, but any big publisher stuff they'd add to the list.

 

But a ton of LCS shoppers don't have a pull list, don't read previews, and aren't on these forums. They just kind of walk in on Wednesday, or Friday after everything hot is long gone.

 

I had trouble getting #1 issues from Image a few years back because I had to work Wednesdays and some local flippers would clean the isles every new comic book day. Why not add it to the pull list? I would. The shops policy was to stock the shelves first, the pull boxes last, with whatever was left.

 

So then I switched from the LCS to HeavyInk and they did the same thing to me twice with hot books that I had to get on eBay and buy for $25 even though I had preordered them. At that point I said screw it and stopped buying floppies completely. Now I trade wait

 

The shops policy was to stock the shelves first, the pull boxes last, with whatever was left.

 

That is SO demented, it has to be an outright lie.

 

I call wildly_fanciful_statement on that.

 

[dupont2005]

I'd tell you the name of the shop but then you'd just doxx them on your website the next time you were feeling upset.

[LarrysComics]

I'd tell you the name of the shop but then you'd just doxx them on your website the next time you were feeling upset.

 

It's just comic shop bashing.

Somebody hurt you.

Now you're lashing out.

 

There is NO shop in the world that:

 

Takes subscriptions.

Orders those books.

Then offers those special orders to completely different customers first.

It makes no sense at all.

You made it up.

 

And if there was.

They would deserve a " doxx"

( whatever the eff that is)

 

Anyway...

Liar,liar, pants on fire.

[N/A]

I'd tell you the name of the shop but then you'd just doxx them on your website the next time you were feeling upset.

 

It's just comic shop bashing.

Somebody hurt you.

Now you're lashing out.

 

There is NO shop in the world that:

 

Takes subscriptions.

Orders those books.

Then offers those special orders to completely different customers first.

It makes no sense at all.

You made it up.

 

And if there was.

They would deserve a " doxx"

( whatever the eff that is)

 

Anyway...

Liar,liar, pants on fire.

 

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