Star wars #1 should be worth a lot more.

[shadroch]

We have a short box of raw #1 books, all in 9.2 / 9.6 and common sense tells me I could not sell them all within a 6 month period unless I gave them away for 10.00 each?

 

And I'm a no body, imagine the big time guys like a Koch, or somebody with I'm sure boxes of this stuff

 

You could easily get $50 or more each on eBay. They sell all the time. It's been a while since I've seen a high grade copy sell for only $10.

 

Jerk. I was about to get the whole box from him at $10 a pop. Thanks for ruining my deal.

 

 

I'd give him $20 a pop if he really is interested in selling.

 

 

$21.73

[Lazyboy]

It first appeared in a book released in late 1976 (based on what Lucas shared from the screenplay). The comic was released in April 1977. The movie in May.

 

My guess is that the paid circulation of Star Wars 1, 1st print, was 4-6X higher than Hulk 181. I've personally owned about 10 copies, including some pretty sharp ones, none of which I paid more than $5 for (of course, the last one I bought was probably in 2000/2001 or so). 181 is by no means rare, of course, I'm just saying there are plenty of SW 1 to go around.

 

I'm certainly not knocking SW 1. I still own a few copies. I'm just being realistic.

 

#2 on the other hand, that should be worth more!

 

 

250,000 copies according to the person who would know:

 

http://swcomiccollector.blogspot.com/2015/04/marvel-star-wars-comic-history-continued.html

 

I've looked for the circulation numbers on 1st print Star Wars 1. First I have seen of a credible number. Thomas wasn't in charge of sales and circulation, butt he certainly should have been in a place of knowledge.

 

That said - Star Wars 1 first print sold out. That's why they printed more. There were no meaningful number of returns of unsold copies. ASM was Marvel's best seller at about 280,000 copies a month. Marvel printed 2x that number - but the rest were returned unsold.

 

In Incredible Hulk 187, the circulation figures were printed for the previous year. They printed an average 370,000 copies a month and sold 202,592.

 

What we don't know - will never likely know - is how individual issues back then sold. Maybe 181 sold a bit better than average?

 

IMHO, the availability of Star Wars 1 first print has more to do with comic collecting as a hobby than the print runs. Evidence suggests the overall number of copies of Star Wars 1 first print and Incredible Hulk 1 are in the same ballpark. But 1977 was a lot different in the comic collecting world than 1974. There were more collectors, more comic book stores. FAR More people - dealers and collectors - buying multiple copies (especially first issues) to put back and hold as "investments". It's easy to find nice copies of Marvel's John Carter 1 and Tarzan 1. Star Wars 1 is worth a lot $$ more because there are a lot more collectors wanting the book in their collection.

 

While certainly true, there wasn't exactly a shortage of speculators in the earlier 70s. But Incredible Hulk 181 was not a first issue (despite your typo ), which makes all the difference for that time period.

[kav]

Marvel should do a story where it is revealed the guy in the wolverine costume in 180 is some other dude and settle this once and for all. It can be Rick Jones or Snapper Carr or someone.

[Aweandlorder]

Its also worth mentioning that SW toys are outselling SW comic books, both in volume and in value. That would probably also be a sign that this property is less attached to the comic book medium than some would think

 

This is another good point brought up by you and others. Star Wars toys are vastly more popular with Star Wars collectors than the comic books. It is what most people are nostalgic for when they think of Star Wars.

 

Star Wars has had a huge impact on comic books, twice now. It saved Marvel in the 1970s and it sold about 1/8th of all the comic units in early 2015. And for over a year, it was consistently Marvel's top selling ongoing comic book.

 

But, you are correct. Star Wars is not a comic property. Nothing of significance has happened in the Star Wars comic books despite nearly 40 years of publishing. Despite some wanting Doctor Aphra and other characters to be relevant outside of comics, I'm doubtful the comics will be mined for major movie characters. Dark Horse did get one character into the movies (Aayla Secura) but that was an insignificant appearance.

 

I would be very interested in seeing how would a book like SW #8 perform in the event that Jaxxon becomes a major player in the movies and SW merchandise

[ComicConnoisseur]

Its also worth mentioning that SW toys are outselling SW comic books, both in volume and in value. That would probably also be a sign that this property is less attached to the comic book medium than some would think

 

This is another good point brought up by you and others. Star Wars toys are vastly more popular with Star Wars collectors than the comic books. It is what most people are nostalgic for when they think of Star Wars.

 

Star Wars has had a huge impact on comic books, twice now. It saved Marvel in the 1970s and it sold about 1/8th of all the comic units in early 2015. And for over a year, it was consistently Marvel's top selling ongoing comic book.

 

But, you are correct. Star Wars is not a comic property. Nothing of significance has happened in the Star Wars comic books despite nearly 40 years of publishing. Despite some wanting Doctor Aphra and other characters to be relevant outside of comics, I'm doubtful the comics will be mined for major movie characters. Dark Horse did get one character into the movies (Aayla Secura) but that was an insignificant appearance.

That`s like GI JOE and Transformers in that the toys are way more valuable than the comics.

 

[Mijael.Levy]

More than Hulk 181 for instance. First appearance of Star Wars eclipses first appearance of hey bub.

 

No

[comicwiz]

Kav's whole premise is that the Star Wars comic is the first star Wars. It isn't. The novel came out almost a year before. The fact that the comic was a huge success and may have saved the entire comic industry is great, but it doesn't make it the first appearance of Star Wars.

What's interesting would be the value of Star Wars #7. The first six issues followed the movies, so issue 7 is the first original story in the Star Wars universe not in the movie. I'd think that would be huge, but its not.

 

The novelization has no bearing on the film being adapted for the first time in comics before the movie was released. By your logic, everyone should be collecting Marvel's FOOM #2 revealing Andy Olsen's contest submission if they want the first Wolverine.

 

You are entitled to your opinion. But it would be a bigger deal collectability-wise if the world learned of these characters for the first time in SW 1. I know you view money as a cancer on all of this, but $$$ was the whole premise of the original post, so there is some relevance here even if it is crass and all of that.

 

Of course, didn't we go through this a while back with Harley Quinn? I can't remember when it was decided that the kiddie book actually came out.

 

As for Foom 2, the name is the same and it looks nothing like the eventual character. No claws = no Logan. And people are collecting Foom 2. Heck, New Mutants 86 has Cable's face in a teaser!

 

A couple of things. First, you're taking my comments completely out of context, inferring I'm some anti-capitalist - my point was that the importance of SW #1 transcends the run of the mill discussions that deem a books "worth" by its going market value.

 

The parallel I drew using FOOM #2 is in fact what you alluded to with Olsen's version of Wolverine not being the real deal - the novelization simply did not resonate with fans the way Marvel's visual interpretation ever would. There's no point dwelling on a "first" in paperback or FOOM mag form because fans only wanted to extend their movie experience by picking-up the comic from the newsstands. And from there, continuing on the journey by collecting franchise merch, which was constantly being advertised or cross-sold in comics.

 

The fact that LFL pretty much paid for all 5 issues is the best indication they wanted access to comic audiences, Marvel's distribution channels, and that picking up the tab would eventually pay off because it served as an access point to cross-sell Lucas' toys.

 

Lucas didn't make his money from the movies - he made them selling his toys.

 

Between 1978-1985, 300 Million action figures were sold, and there is no doubt in my mind the comics helped those sales for at least the first 4 waves (12-48 Backs).

 

The real irony in all this is that rather than realizing and appreciating the EPIC empire built from these toys, Lucas' advisors complained that the deal made with Kenner wasn't good enough. Things got so bad that George Lucas was sued for making comments toward Marc Pevers about doing a bad deal with Kenner, which Pevers felt hurt his career. This is chronicled in Charles Lippincott's blog post I shared earlier in this thread.

[Goldeneye]

Kav's whole premise is that the Star Wars comic is the first star Wars. It isn't. The novel came out almost a year before. The fact that the comic was a huge success and may have saved the entire comic industry is great, but it doesn't make it the first appearance of Star Wars.

What's interesting would be the value of Star Wars #7. The first six issues followed the movies, so issue 7 is the first original story in the Star Wars universe not in the movie. I'd think that would be huge, but its not.

 

The novelization has no bearing on the film being adapted for the first time in comics before the movie was released. By your logic, everyone should be collecting Marvel's FOOM #2 revealing Andy Olsen's contest submission if they want the first Wolverine.

 

You are entitled to your opinion. But it would be a bigger deal collectability-wise if the world learned of these characters for the first time in SW 1. I know you view money as a cancer on all of this, but $$$ was the whole premise of the original post, so there is some relevance here even if it is crass and all of that.

 

Of course, didn't we go through this a while back with Harley Quinn? I can't remember when it was decided that the kiddie book actually came out.

 

As for Foom 2, the name is the same and it looks nothing like the eventual character. No claws = no Logan. And people are collecting Foom 2. Heck, New Mutants 86 has Cable's face in a teaser!

 

A couple of things. First, you're taking my comments completely out of context, inferring I'm some anti-capitalist - my point was that the importance of SW #1 transcends the run of the mill discussions that deem a books "worth" by its going market value.

 

The parallel I drew using FOOM #2 is in fact what you alluded to with Olsen's version of Wolverine not being the real deal - the novelization simply did not resonate with fans the way Marvel's visual interpretation ever would. There's no point dwelling on a "first" in paperback or FOOM mag form because fans only wanted to extend their movie experience by picking-up the comic from the newsstands. And from there, continuing on the journey by collecting franchise merch, which was constantly being advertised or cross-sold in comics.

 

The fact that LFL pretty much paid for all 5 issues is the best indication they wanted access to comic audiences, Marvel's distribution channels, and that picking up the tab would eventually pay off because it served as an access point to cross-sell Lucas' toys.

 

Lucas didn't make his money from the movies - he made them selling his toys.

 

Between 1978-1985, 300 Million action figures were sold, and there is no doubt in my mind the comics helped those sales for at least the first 4 waves (12-48 Backs).

 

The real irony in all this is that rather than realizing and appreciating the EPIC empire built from these toys, Lucas' advisors complained that the deal made with Kenner wasn't good enough. Things got so bad that George Lucas was sued for making comments toward Marc Pevers about doing a bad deal with Kenner, which Pevers felt hurt his career. This is chronicled in Charles Lippincott's blog post I shared earlier in this thread.

 

As far as Star Wars collectibles go

1. Actual props used in the film

2. Original theatrical film posters

3. Toys and merchandise

[comicwiz]

Kav's whole premise is that the Star Wars comic is the first star Wars. It isn't. The novel came out almost a year before. The fact that the comic was a huge success and may have saved the entire comic industry is great, but it doesn't make it the first appearance of Star Wars.

What's interesting would be the value of Star Wars #7. The first six issues followed the movies, so issue 7 is the first original story in the Star Wars universe not in the movie. I'd think that would be huge, but its not.

 

The novelization has no bearing on the film being adapted for the first time in comics before the movie was released. By your logic, everyone should be collecting Marvel's FOOM #2 revealing Andy Olsen's contest submission if they want the first Wolverine.

 

You are entitled to your opinion. But it would be a bigger deal collectability-wise if the world learned of these characters for the first time in SW 1. I know you view money as a cancer on all of this, but $$$ was the whole premise of the original post, so there is some relevance here even if it is crass and all of that.

 

Of course, didn't we go through this a while back with Harley Quinn? I can't remember when it was decided that the kiddie book actually came out.

 

As for Foom 2, the name is the same and it looks nothing like the eventual character. No claws = no Logan. And people are collecting Foom 2. Heck, New Mutants 86 has Cable's face in a teaser!

 

A couple of things. First, you're taking my comments completely out of context, inferring I'm some anti-capitalist - my point was that the importance of SW #1 transcends the run of the mill discussions that deem a books "worth" by its going market value.

 

The parallel I drew using FOOM #2 is in fact what you alluded to with Olsen's version of Wolverine not being the real deal - the novelization simply did not resonate with fans the way Marvel's visual interpretation ever would. There's no point dwelling on a "first" in paperback or FOOM mag form because fans only wanted to extend their movie experience by picking-up the comic from the newsstands. And from there, continuing on the journey by collecting franchise merch, which was constantly being advertised or cross-sold in comics.

 

The fact that LFL pretty much paid for all 5 issues is the best indication they wanted access to comic audiences, Marvel's distribution channels, and that picking up the tab would eventually pay off because it served as an access point to cross-sell Lucas' toys.

 

Lucas didn't make his money from the movies - he made them selling his toys.

 

Between 1978-1985, 300 Million action figures were sold, and there is no doubt in my mind the comics helped those sales for at least the first 4 waves (12-48 Backs).

 

The real irony in all this is that rather than realizing and appreciating the EPIC empire built from these toys, Lucas' advisors complained that the deal made with Kenner wasn't good enough. Things got so bad that George Lucas was sued for making comments toward Marc Pevers about doing a bad deal with Kenner, which Pevers felt hurt his career. This is chronicled in Charles Lippincott's blog post I shared earlier in this thread.

 

As far as Star Wars collectibles go

1. Actual props used in the film

2. Original theatrical film posters

3. Toys and merchandise

 

More accurately, i) screen used props are still at the top of the food chain, but ii) 2D & 3D preproduction/prototypes are not too far behind, with iii) factory sealed toys, vehicles and playsets taking the third spot. Granted, some of the rarest posters deserve a nod, but there's also examples of extraordinarily rare retailer sets, foreign pieces, bootlegs, and even low population production pieces that would sooner represent the pinnacle of SW collecting.

[Readcomix]

Marvel should do a story where it is revealed the guy in the wolverine costume in 180 is some other dude and settle this once and for all. It can be Rick Jones or Snapper Carr or someone.

 

Logan's clone! Kept in suspended animation all these years! He busts out, shreds Alpha Flight (they need killing, as they say in Texas) and voila! New major Marvel villain! Miniseries, crossovers, event, variant covers yadda yadda....

[Readcomix]

I see no downside to buying a Hulk 180.

 

Except for the fact it's the wrong one

 

Relax...I just picked up a Journey into Mystery #84...ya never know....

 

Seriously, I said I saw no downside to a Hulk 180, I never said it was a better book to own than a 181. I get that 181 is the wolverine fans' Grail. I get that wolverine fans like lots of different books featuring wolverine. I don't get how 180 has leprosy.

 

I agree completely on no downside for snagging a #180.

 

If the value of #180 goes down, it would likely be accompanied by a drop in #181's value as well. If #181 continues to rise, #180 should at least remain stable in price where it's at, or rise in conjunction.

 

The wild card factor is that the 1st Wolverine appearance eventually takes the path of the 1st Sgt. Rock appearance. While admittedly this is an apples/oranges thing (since the Sgt. Rock change dealt with prototypes and "actual" first appearances), there is always a chance that the marketplace could shift their opinion on which is more desirable between the two, making the #180 a smart pickup. (For full disclosure, I have gone the best way possible -- I own high grade copies of both. ).

 

As far as Star Wars #1 goes, it feels like a book that should command more, but it just doesn't. As other people have pointed out, the timing of its release and the print runs largely have much to do with it.

 

Yes, all that, mostly. I was just saying 180 is legit in its own right. (2nd Wendigo too, ya know!) In the case of Sgt Rock, OOAW 81 was at one time the bigger book, but the prototype factor vs true first led to correction. But sometimes cameo firsts do outweigh full firsts, go figure, eg Jimmy Olsen 134.

 

Back to Star Wars, I agree #7 should be bigger. Does anyone remember back when #4 was "low distribution" in the guide?

 

Yes, because supply and demand determine price, while a first appearance (brief or full) is just one factor, albeit a fairly large one, that affects one half of that equation - demand.

 

I understand that. I just don't think the exact confluence of factors is readily apparent in any of the cases in question, hence the go figure. I believe the war guys have settled on 83 because that seems to be the first Sgt Rock that matches the continuity; I suspect in the case of 181 it's because it's the first appearance in which we see what the character is about (likely similar case for Venom and Carnage). With Darkseid, it's perhaps least apparent. I don't think Jimmy Olsen 134 is significantly tougher to find than New Gods #1. My only point is it's inconsistent and the reasons that drive the demand side are not always fully obvious.

[Lazyboy]

With Darkseid, it's very apparent. Due to speculation in the 70s being heavily focused on first issues, Forever People 1 is more common both in general and in high grade (check the CGC census) than SPJO 134. SPJO 134 also has a Neal Adams cover, adding some degree of demand that wouldn't otherwise exist for a Kirby Fourth World book.

 

 

[rjrjr]

Its also worth mentioning that SW toys are outselling SW comic books, both in volume and in value. That would probably also be a sign that this property is less attached to the comic book medium than some would think

 

This is another good point brought up by you and others. Star Wars toys are vastly more popular with Star Wars collectors than the comic books. It is what most people are nostalgic for when they think of Star Wars.

 

Star Wars has had a huge impact on comic books, twice now. It saved Marvel in the 1970s and it sold about 1/8th of all the comic units in early 2015. And for over a year, it was consistently Marvel's top selling ongoing comic book.

 

But, you are correct. Star Wars is not a comic property. Nothing of significance has happened in the Star Wars comic books despite nearly 40 years of publishing. Despite some wanting Doctor Aphra and other characters to be relevant outside of comics, I'm doubtful the comics will be mined for major movie characters. Dark Horse did get one character into the movies (Aayla Secura) but that was an insignificant appearance.

 

I would be very interested in seeing how would a book like SW #8 perform in the event that Jaxxon becomes a major player in the movies and SW merchandise

 

[Tony S]

 

Ummm. IDK that. . Jimmy Olsen 134 isn't a first issue. And Jimmy Olsen 134 has long been regarded as a person_without_enough_empathy to find in high grade.

 

The 9.2 to 9.8 CGC census looks like this for JO 134

48/48/16/6

Total graded 806

 

The 9.2 to 9.8 CGC census for New Gods 1?

110/143/143/27

Total graded 882

 

So the census pretty much verifies JO 134 is FAR SCARCER in high grade that New Gods 1

 

That alone probably accounts for some/much of the books value. But here is another observation. When true FULL first appearances are sorta long in coming, then the first cameo seems to carry more collector interest. Jimmy Olsen 135 has the second cameo appearance of Darksied and then Forever People 1 has his 3rd appearance and first Full appearance.

 

So I'm nnot sure if you meant New Gods 1 or Forever People 1, since the latter is Darksied's first full appearance. Just for reference, the census on Forever People 1 from 9.2-9.8

 

88/111/83/25

Total graded 837

 

Yet again, the number of high grade copies dwarfs JO 134. Where there is demand, scarcity matters.

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

 

Ummm. IDK that. . Jimmy Olsen 134 isn't a first issue. And Jimmy Olsen 134 has long been regarded as a person_without_enough_empathy to find in high grade.

 

The 9.2 to 9.8 CGC census looks like this for JO 134

48/48/16/6

Total graded 806

 

The 9.2 to 9.8 CGC census for New Gods 1?

110/143/143/27

Total graded 882

 

So the census pretty much verifies JO 134 is FAR SCARCER in high grade that New Gods 1

 

That alone probably accounts for some/much of the books value. But here is another observation. When true FULL first appearances are sorta long in coming, then the first cameo seems to carry more collector interest. Jimmy Olsen 135 has the second cameo appearance of Darksied and then Forever People 1 has his 3rd appearance and first Full appearance.

 

So I'm nnot sure if you meant New Gods 1 or Forever People 1, since the latter is Darksied's first full appearance. Just for reference, the census on Forever People 1 from 9.2-9.8

 

88/111/83/25

Total graded 837

 

Yet again, the number of high grade copies dwarfs JO 134. Where there is demand, scarcity matters.

 

I think in the end though once mainstream discovers New Gods. It will New Gods #1 because Orion is by far the more interesting character. Reminds me of a more mature Star-Lord.

Plus I know Darkseid came before Thanos, but mainstream will think Darkseid is a rip off of Thanos. So I am going with New Gods #1 because of Orion.

[NewWorldOrder]

There are a lot more copies of Star Wars 1. It is a #1 issue so it was collected more as opposed to a random issue (181) in a long run.

Are you certain the print run of star wars was larger than IH 181?

 

yes

[Readcomix]

LazyBoy and Tony S, thank you. JO134 makes more sense to me now. Not that it bothered me much (in the way some people seem really passionate about 180 v 181 -- I like them both) but I thought it was a little anomalous until you guys scratched the surface and gave me a closer look at the data. Thx!

 

Plus, there IS something menacing about that little panel. It's an effective tease for sure.

 

I've had the book from way back just because I liked all the fourth world storyline, and when the price really shot up I thought the cameo nature of Darkseid's first appearance might make it vulnerable to a steep drop, but your points make a world of sense to me re: it's ability to sustain its price point viability.