Naphtha for cleaning comics???

[MetalPSI]

Still think it's probably safer to use rubbing alcohol

[Bomber-Bob]

I'm sorry guys but all of this makes me very uncomfortable. This thread points out the fact that many books have been aggressively worked on. I would hate to think I have purchased any books that have gone through this process. Does anyone disclose this stuff when putting it on the market ? Since I doubt it, why is this an acceptable practice and why are you talking about it here ?

[porcupine48]

[thirdgreenham]

Sounds like the dos and donts of restoration/conservation.

 

Should they take it to PM?

 

 

[Bomber-Bob]

Sounds like the dos and donts of restoration/conservation.

 

Should they take it to PM?

 

 

I don't know but after reading Pov's comments, I feel like nominating him for the Hall of Shame. Just joking of course but I had no idea he was into such things and for so long (1980's). I hope the posters understand that to some of us 'purist' collectors this is just terrible stuff. I repeat my question, why is this an acceptable practice ?

[aardvark88]

This is a public forum and conservation or restoration is a part of comics as the retail prices skyrocket. Some collectors just want their vintage comics to look better by having tape or residue removed from covers, removing rusty staples, reinserting clean, vintage staples, reducing foxing spots, and pressing out the spine roll.

[PovertyRow]

Sounds like the dos and donts of restoration/conservation.

 

Should they take it to PM?

 

 

I don't know but after reading Pov's comments, I feel like nominating him for the Hall of Shame. Just joking of course but I had no idea he was into such things and for so long (1980's). I hope the posters understand that to some of us 'purist' collectors this is just terrible stuff. I repeat my question, why is this an acceptable practice ?

 

My experiences with restoration have been fully disclosed by me over the years here. I studied on my own and eventually with a leading restorer. I never restored books and sold them. I never restored books for someone else. I was and remain fascinated by paper and restoration. I would buy cheap GA and SA books as well as moderns to work on, apply various techniques and observe the results. I even converted the bedroom of my one bedroom apartment in Boston into a resto lab.

 

Thanks to this my ability to detect resto is good. I have helped other collectors determine if some of their books have resto. I take no fee for that. I feel knowledge of resto thechniques is far more useful than living in ignorance of the techniques and what they can look like.

 

[PovertyRow]

And Bob - check this thread - I contributed to it in my 2nd week here back in 2002.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7257#Post7257

 

 

And in that thread back in 2002 I basically reveal my history with repro and the whys and hows of my getting into it. Again, knowledge of this stuff is important to ANY collector. Restoration is so commonplace one needs to be armed with knowledge.

 

Great info, povertyrow! Where'd you learn so much about the topic, just by chatting with other collectors?

 

Thanks. I got fascinated with the concept of proper conservation restoration around 1985. While no longer in the biz, I was in the 4-color press industry for years and basically "like paper". I read as much as I could on the subject, talked to dealers and collectors, and experimented on junk books at home just to see what would happen if this or that were done, and what signs the "finished product" would reveal. There are some older texts out there that, while not specific to comics, deal with paper. Both restoration and conservation. Restoration doesn't really trouble me a lot. Considering the age of the books I collect - all precode - there is going to be some restoration - some done properly and some done so badly it looks like a five and dime blonde toupee on a guy with black hair. So I also wanted to prepare myself as best I could. Ultimately I spend some time with one of the leading restorers and learned some hands-on techniques in her studio. This really helped in identifying not only what the restoration I am looking at is but how it was done.

 

Some of it is remarkably benign and some is like radical surgery. I neither condone nor oppose it. It is what it is and is up to the individual to decide how they feel about it. What I am really opposed to is undisclosed restoration of any kind, no matter how slight. The pro restorers provide a detailed checklist of what has been done. Unfortunately, that checklist doesn't always stay with the book, if you get my meaning.

[Bomber-Bob]

Pov, I am only aware of you as a long time Boardie and an active participant in the HOS discussions. From this experience, I hold you in high regard. I had no idea about the restorer POV. It sounds like a hobby that you are passionate about and I respect that. I guess my only comment would be why propogate your knowledge to the many wannabe restorers on these Boards, some of whom don't share your moral compass. In summary, you are one of the good guys but everyone may not be like you, don't encourage them.

[PovertyRow]

Pov, I am only aware of you as a long time Boardie and an active participant in the HOS discussions. From this experience, I hold you in high regard. I had no idea about the restorer POV. It sounds like a hobby that you are passionate about and I respect that. I guess my only comment would be why propogate your knowledge to the many wannabe restorers on these Boards, some of whom don't share your moral compass. In summary, you are one of the good guys but everyone may not be like you, don't encourage them.

 

Well, as I said earlier, "I feel knowledge of resto thechniques is far more useful than living in ignorance of the techniques and what they can look like." (bold mine after the fact)

 

Now if someone is trying to restore a book they will restore it without any input from me. I do not see myself as a propagator of restorers.If someone attempts resto using the descriptions I have given they will fail if that is all they are going on. But I have gotten many replies and emails and in person comments over the years from collectors who read my info and ended up not adding restored books, unknown to them, to their collections.

 

The thing is, Bob, restoration is a fact of life and it has been for decades. Disseminating information that can arm the collector with knowledge on how to spot restoration is more important, to me, than not talking about it or wishing it would go away and letting it go on unchecked and undetected.

[VintageComics]

I happened to stumble on a discussion about a book someone had pressed, and one of the commenters said the book looked "chemically cleaned with Naptha."

 

I understand a lot of nonsense gets posted on Facebook, but seeing these comment made me wonder if there's any truth to this.

 

Please, someone tell me this isn't really happening, and that there aren't vandals doing this to comics:

 

 

Btw: both comments were made by the same person, and not in the chronological order they appear in the screenshot - I altered the order they were posted for brevity and quick reference.

 

They don't look like the same book at first glance.

 

The red artwork falls on a different angle on the two books when compared to the top of the back cover.

[PovertyRow]

I happened to stumble on a discussion about a book someone had pressed, and one of the commenters said the book looked "chemically cleaned with Naptha."

 

I understand a lot of nonsense gets posted on Facebook, but seeing these comment made me wonder if there's any truth to this.

 

Please, someone tell me this isn't really happening, and that there aren't vandals doing this to comics:

 

 

Btw: both comments were made by the same person, and not in the chronological order they appear in the screenshot - I altered the order they were posted for brevity and quick reference.

 

They don't look like the same book at first glance.

 

The red artwork falls on a different angle on the two books when compared to the top of the back cover.

 

I agree. I also think whoever is commenting in that thread about "Naptha" doesn't really know what they are talking about.

[VintageComics]

In general regarding Naphtha and water impact. I was using VM&P Naphtha in the late 80s to remove that green oil transfer stain from inside front covers. It had zero impact on the cover stock and the colors. It also dried quickly with zero residue left behind. I experimented and left covers in the naphtha for 5 hours with zero impact after drying. I have also used it to remove cello tape and stickers BUT the stickers need to have the correct adhesive...one that can be dissolved with a petroleum based solvent like naphtha. It would have no effect on water based adhesives. While Naphtha is flammable and excellent ventilation and gloves should be used, its impact on cover stock is the most benign I have seen.

 

Pov, Naphtha won't bleach tanned paper though, will it?

[PovertyRow]

In general regarding Naphtha and water impact. I was using VM&P Naphtha in the late 80s to remove that green oil transfer stain from inside front covers. It had zero impact on the cover stock and the colors. It also dried quickly with zero residue left behind. I experimented and left covers in the naphtha for 5 hours with zero impact after drying. I have also used it to remove cello tape and stickers BUT the stickers need to have the correct adhesive...one that can be dissolved with a petroleum based solvent like naphtha. It would have no effect on water based adhesives. While Naphtha is flammable and excellent ventilation and gloves should be used, its impact on cover stock is the most benign I have seen.

 

Pov, Naphtha won't bleach tanned paper though, will it?

 

No, Naphtha won't bleach paper. It is a solvent that can dissolve certain things like cello tape adhesive or the oil/ink transfer stain. Now I have no idea what Fel's Naptha bar soap would do!

[VintageComics]

In general regarding Naphtha and water impact. I was using VM&P Naphtha in the late 80s to remove that green oil transfer stain from inside front covers. It had zero impact on the cover stock and the colors. It also dried quickly with zero residue left behind. I experimented and left covers in the naphtha for 5 hours with zero impact after drying. I have also used it to remove cello tape and stickers BUT the stickers need to have the correct adhesive...one that can be dissolved with a petroleum based solvent like naphtha. It would have no effect on water based adhesives. While Naphtha is flammable and excellent ventilation and gloves should be used, its impact on cover stock is the most benign I have seen.

 

Pov, Naphtha won't bleach tanned paper though, will it?

 

No, Naphtha won't bleach paper. It is a solvent that can dissolve certain things like cello tape adhesive or the oil/ink transfer stain. Now I have no idea what Fel's Naptha bar soap would do!

 

That's what I thought.

 

So the work in the pics above is likely not real and someone is trying to pull everyone's leg.

 

When I look at it again, it does look like someone is trying to get a reaction out of everyone:

 

"If you think your presser is better than mine..."

[VintageComics]

I agree. I also think whoever is commenting in that thread about "Naptha" doesn't really know what they are talking about.

 

That right there is your above average Facebook conversation, Vern.

[Bomber-Bob]

Pov, I am only aware of you as a long time Boardie and an active participant in the HOS discussions. From this experience, I hold you in high regard. I had no idea about the restorer POV. It sounds like a hobby that you are passionate about and I respect that. I guess my only comment would be why propogate your knowledge to the many wannabe restorers on these Boards, some of whom don't share your moral compass. In summary, you are one of the good guys but everyone may not be like you, don't encourage them.

 

Well, as I said earlier, "I feel knowledge of resto thechniques is far more useful than living in ignorance of the techniques and what they can look like." (bold mine after the fact)

 

Now if someone is trying to restore a book they will restore it without any input from me. I do not see myself as a propagator of restorers.If someone attempts resto using the descriptions I have given they will fail if that is all they are going on. But I have gotten many replies and emails and in person comments over the years from collectors who read my info and ended up not adding restored books, unknown to them, to their collections.

 

The thing is, Bob, restoration is a fact of life and it has been for decades. Disseminating information that can arm the collector with knowledge on how to spot restoration is more important, to me, than not talking about it or wishing it would go away and letting it go on unchecked and undetected.

 

Pov, good points. I did not consider the aspect of educating the collector in spotting restoration. You are correct, I suppose I am trying to shield myself from the realities going on here. Thanks for the civil dialog, much appreciated.

[Ze-man]

In general regarding Naphtha and water impact. I was using VM&P Naphtha in the late 80s to remove that green oil transfer stain from inside front covers. It had zero impact on the cover stock and the colors. It also dried quickly with zero residue left behind. I experimented and left covers in the naphtha for 5 hours with zero impact after drying. I have also used it to remove cello tape and stickers BUT the stickers need to have the correct adhesive...one that can be dissolved with a petroleum based solvent like naphtha. It would have no effect on water based adhesives. While Naphtha is flammable and excellent ventilation and gloves should be used, its impact on cover stock is the most benign I have seen.

 

Pov, Naphtha won't bleach tanned paper though, will it?

 

No, Naphtha won't bleach paper. It is a solvent that can dissolve certain things like cello tape adhesive or the oil/ink transfer stain. Now I have no idea what Fel's Naptha bar soap would do!

 

That's what I thought.

 

So the work in the pics above is likely not real and someone is trying to pull everyone's leg.

 

When I look at it again, it does look like someone is trying to get a reaction out of everyone:

 

"If you think your presser is better than mine..."

 

The 181 comics in the Facebook photo are different copies. The two big tells to me are the red art registration next to the vertical dotted black line, there is a white gap between the reds and black dotted line in the after version. And the outer top edge "before" photo shows really dark spots on the outer top edge. These aren't going to go away with a simple "Naptha bath"

 

Then again, I'm basing this on a likely altered Facey Page photo.

 

And speaking of Naptha, in terms of resto/conso. I think conservation circles tend to have different views on whats acceptable in comic book circles. We are dealing with comic books made from paper which are essentially burning internally over time because of the cheapest materials used to create them. Add to this books taped to the gills that have degraded tape......well the tape needs to come off. And Naptha is among one of several options to soften the old adhesives that are eating into the comic.

 

Naptha has been used for decades on comics. I have seen examples decades old and never noticed what I would consider rapid degradation of paper quality...if anything I would think the oils washed out of SA book is a plus.

[greggy]

Pizz off, Kenny

[Ze-man]