Naphtha for cleaning comics???

[greggy]

Marry off Ellen yet?

 

 

[Ze-man]

She has a BF

[greggy]

She has a BF

[VintageComics]

She has a BF

 

So all those gifts greggy bought over the years meant nothing.

[thehumantorch]

She has a BF

 

Yikes

[Foley]

Look at the reds in the example posted. Lots of color and gloss degradation.

 

If that was tanning tot he cover it could be removed with water, but it would result in a conserved grade.

 

--- how would water even be detected?

 

Or is the end visual result so obvious that it is easy to detect?

 

Changes the texture of the paper.

 

I never knew this but it makes perfect sense.

 

In woodworking, water based finishes can "raise the grain" of the wood, causing a rough finish. This happens because the water swells the wood fibers and they do not revert to their original size. The solution is to raise the grain before finishing by wiping the wood with water, letting it dry, sanding smooth, and then applying the finish.

 

I imagine that paper fibers react in a similar way, but there is no way to "sand them back" after they swell?

[Glassman10]

wood, like glass, remembers everything you ever do to it.

[toro]

In general regarding Naphtha and water impact. I was using VM&P Naphtha in the late 80s to remove that green oil transfer stain from inside front covers. It had zero impact on the cover stock and the colors. It also dried quickly with zero residue left behind. I experimented and left covers in the naphtha for 5 hours with zero impact after drying. I have also used it to remove cello tape and stickers BUT the stickers need to have the correct adhesive...one that can be dissolved with a petroleum based solvent like naphtha. It would have no effect on water based adhesives. While Naphtha is flammable and excellent ventilation and gloves should be used, its impact on cover stock is the most benign I have seen.

 

Pov, Naphtha won't bleach tanned paper though, will it?

 

No, Naphtha won't bleach paper. It is a solvent that can dissolve certain things like cello tape adhesive or the oil/ink transfer stain. Now I have no idea what Fel's Naptha bar soap would do!

 

That's what I thought.

 

So the work in the pics above is likely not real and someone is trying to pull everyone's leg.

 

When I look at it again, it does look like someone is trying to get a reaction out of everyone:

 

"If you think your presser is better than mine..."

 

The 181 comics in the Facebook photo are different copies. The two big tells to me are the red art registration next to the vertical dotted black line, there is a white gap between the reds and black dotted line in the after version. And the outer top edge "before" photo shows really dark spots on the outer top edge. These aren't going to go away with a simple "Naptha bath"

 

Then again, I'm basing this on a likely altered Facey Page photo.

 

And speaking of Naptha, in terms of resto/conso. I think conservation circles tend to have different views on whats acceptable in comic book circles. We are dealing with comic books made from paper which are essentially burning internally over time because of the cheapest materials used to create them. Add to this books taped to the gills that have degraded tape......well the tape needs to come off. And Naptha is among one of several options to soften the old adhesives that are eating into the comic.

 

Naptha has been used for decades on comics. I have seen examples decades old and never noticed what I would consider rapid degradation of paper quality...if anything I would think the oils washed out of SA book is a plus.

 

OMG! Kenny, how the heck are you?

 

 

[joeypost]

 

A Kenny sighting.

[comicwiz]

I don't collect restored, and never had any objection against them until reading some of things I have in this thread.

 

It's shocking to read how a blending agent for fuel that has no business coming into contact with comics, has been used and/or is probably still being used on them. For those that collect restored/conserved graded comics, I'd lobby hard for TPG's to provide voc analysis or a notation of the actual chemical used, or just avoid them altogether.

[Glassman10]

I think of this kind of the way I think of car battery acid. It doesn't seem like it does anything if you splatter a little bit moving an older battery around, or cleaning up the battery storage area on your car where it lives. Nothing seems different.

 

Wait a while. Wash your shirt a few times and watch the shirt decompose before your eyes where any splatter might have hit. Now think about your comic.

 

I do this with long sleeve shirts too. In my work, my left arm sleeve can get really hot from the glass. This too seems all too innocent until you pull the shirt from the dryer after a year or so in service and the lower part of the sleeve is just a mottled rag. These days, I always use Kevlar sleeves when I'm doing that stuff. Your body won't like the abuse anymore than the shirt. Think chronic inflammation and that's typically what precedes cancer.

 

In general, if you can smell it, your brain is interacting with it. You can certainly smell naptha, or xylene or most of the other aromatics. That's not actually a necessarily good thing unless of course it's a fresh baked chocolate chip cookie.

[F For Fake]

I think of this kind of the way I think of car battery acid. It doesn't seem like it does anything if you splatter a little bit moving an older battery around, or cleaning up the battery storage area on your car where it lives. Nothing seems different.

 

Wait a while. Wash your shirt a few times and watch the shirt decompose before your eyes where any splatter might have hit. Now think about your comic.

 

I do this with long sleeve shirts too. In my work, my left arm sleeve can get really hot from the glass. This too seems all too innocent until you pull the shirt from the dryer after a year or so in service and the lower part of the sleeve is just a mottled rag. These days, I always use Kevlar sleeves when I'm doing that stuff. Your body won't like the abuse anymore than the shirt. Think chronic inflammation and that's typically what precedes cancer.

 

In general, if you can smell it, your brain is interacting with it. You can certainly smell naptha, or xylene or most of the other aromatics. That's not actually a necessarily good thing unless of course it's a fresh baked chocolate chip cookie.

 

I've decided that what you're saying here is that I should clean my comics with chocolate chip cookies. Done and done!

[PovertyRow]

I don't collect restored, and never had any objection against them until reading some of things I have in this thread.

 

It's shocking to read how a blending agent for fuel that has no business coming into contact with comics, has been used and/or is probably still being used on them. For those that collect restored/conserved graded comics, I'd lobby hard for TPG's to provide voc analysis or a notation of the actual chemical used, or just avoid them altogether.

 

Referring to Naphtha as a "blending agent for fuel" is just fear mongering unless you can demonstrate the negative effects of naphtha on comic books. How exactly does it harm a book?

 

Did you know the ink used to print comics use hydrocarbon resins, alkyd resins and other neat substances as a binder?

[PovertyRow]

I think of this kind of the way I think of car battery acid. It doesn't seem like it does anything if you splatter a little bit moving an older battery around, or cleaning up the battery storage area on your car where it lives. Nothing seems different.

 

Wait a while. Wash your shirt a few times and watch the shirt decompose before your eyes where any splatter might have hit. Now think about your comic.

 

I do this with long sleeve shirts too. In my work, my left arm sleeve can get really hot from the glass. This too seems all too innocent until you pull the shirt from the dryer after a year or so in service and the lower part of the sleeve is just a mottled rag. These days, I always use Kevlar sleeves when I'm doing that stuff. Your body won't like the abuse anymore than the shirt. Think chronic inflammation and that's typically what precedes cancer.

 

In general, if you can smell it, your brain is interacting with it. You can certainly smell naptha, or xylene or most of the other aromatics. That's not actually a necessarily good thing unless of course it's a fresh baked chocolate chip cookie.

 

Did you know that sulfuric acid is odorless?

[joeypost]

I don't collect restored, and never had any objection against them until reading some of things I have in this thread.

 

It's shocking to read how a blending agent for fuel that has no business coming into contact with comics, has been used and/or is probably still being used on them. For those that collect restored/conserved graded comics, I'd lobby hard for TPG's to provide voc analysis or a notation of the actual chemical used, or just avoid them altogether.

 

Referring to Naphtha as a "blending agent for fuel" is just fear mongering unless you can demonstrate the negative effects of naphtha on comic books. How exactly does it harm a book?

 

Did you know the ink used to print comics use hydrocarbon resins, alkyd resins and other neat substances as a binder?

 

Could it dry out the hydrogen bonds in the paper?

Could it remove oils from the inks causing them to powder or crack over time?

 

Just spit balling here, but those are the first two issues that come to mind.

[PovertyRow]

I don't collect restored, and never had any objection against them until reading some of things I have in this thread.

 

It's shocking to read how a blending agent for fuel that has no business coming into contact with comics, has been used and/or is probably still being used on them. For those that collect restored/conserved graded comics, I'd lobby hard for TPG's to provide voc analysis or a notation of the actual chemical used, or just avoid them altogether.

 

Referring to Naphtha as a "blending agent for fuel" is just fear mongering unless you can demonstrate the negative effects of naphtha on comic books. How exactly does it harm a book?

 

Did you know the ink used to print comics use hydrocarbon resins, alkyd resins and other neat substances as a binder?

 

Could it dry out the hydrogen bonds in the paper?

Could it remove oils from the inks causing them to powder or crack over time?

 

Just spit balling here, but those are the first two issues that come to mind.

 

It hasn't. Naphtha has been used on comic books for over 30 years if not longer. I have yet to see anything relating to this kind of impact (or any negative impact) from its use. Water can do more damage. (I'm off to work)

[thirdgreenham]

BPA-free comics! BPA-free comics!

[HighRadArt]

Not to stir the pot but since we're talking chemicals...how about Hexane? Isn't it used on books to lighten the pages?

[PovertyRow]

BPA-free comics! BPA-free comics!

 

[Glassman10]

I'd use it on a romance comic first. They're kind of built for bleeding in general.

 

It's hard to say but I would sure ask a professional conservator before I tried anything. It strikes me that comics are essentially wood and the wood in our place needs oils to keep from checking completely. I'm not advocating dipping them in oils but I'm thinking on the issues.

 

My car batteries certainly smell so something is coming off of them.

 

I do use Xylene in our adhesives and the xylene I buy from chemical supply houses is very different in grade than xylene from a big box store. We add it to 90% isopropyl alcohol before adhering glasses together with an optically neutral epoxy. It gives the surface "Tooth". It goes in the isopropyl at .05% and you can tell if you don't use it. Given that and given the toxicity of those materials I work with in heavy ventilation, I'm usually pretty cautious. I would suspect that the naptha in a chemical supply and a big box store have their differences as well. One has to ask what the other stuff in the cans is.

 

It's not like I have a dog in a fight. There's no point in fighting on the internet. I'd just err on the side of caution.