Detroit Trolley Collection

[nearmint]

The better question seems to be, will enough people accept Marnin's "seal" to enable him to cut CGC out of the loop without leaving serious $ on the table.

 

I'll be amazed if that comes to pass. I believe most of these books will be purchased by dealers, who will then send them to CGC(making Marnin's seal moot), and rake in the dough that Marnin left on the table.

[nearmint]

Here's Marnin's response to my email:

 

Hi Jeff – It’s so nice to see folks from the CGC Forum actually communicating with me instead of trashing me. I had a very nice conversation with Kenny Sanderson this very evening. He will explain everything pertaining to the questions I have heard about which are circulating regarding ‘The Detroit Trolley Collection’. I can tell you one thing here, and I’m surprised that even people on the Forum don’t know me better than this, that I would NEVER place markings on ANY book, whether from this new pedigree collection or a comic book from a barber shop, with little hairs between the pages:) The whole concept behind what I am doing is to retain the lineage of each and every raw comic book, (and many certified comic books too), that come within my realm, and to give collectors an alternative to CGC by using the services of Susan Cicconi and the Restoration Lab. If you would like to post this on The Forum, please feel free, and give my regards to all.

 

Best, Marnin Rosenberg

ComicCollectors.net

CollectorsAssemble.com

[sterlingcomics]

Nice art and mention, Brad

 

P.S. I'm going to need your services again soon.... (my signature art was crafted by Brad--he's good!!)

[Red Hook]

Thanks!

[supapimp]

i never trashed him

[drdonaldblake]

id love to know what marnin paid the owner for the detroit trolley collection

 

if he got an offer for $68k in 1968, what did it take to gethim to sell the books in 2004/5?

[DarrenSmith]

Here's Marnin's response to my email:

 

Hi Jeff – It’s so nice to see folks from the CGC Forum actually communicating with me instead of trashing me. I had a very nice conversation with Kenny Sanderson this very evening. He will explain everything pertaining to the questions I have heard about which are circulating regarding ‘The Detroit Trolley Collection’. I can tell you one thing here, and I’m surprised that even people on the Forum don’t know me better than this, that I would NEVER place markings on ANY book, whether from this new pedigree collection or a comic book from a barber shop, with little hairs between the pages:) The whole concept behind what I am doing is to retain the lineage of each and every raw comic book, (and many certified comic books too), that come within my realm, and to give collectors an alternative to CGC by using the services of Susan Cicconi and the Restoration Lab. If you would like to post this on The Forum, please feel free, and give my regards to all.

 

Best, Marnin Rosenberg

ComicCollectors.net

CollectorsAssemble.com

 

Umm... What question did you ask him in the email?

 

Here is a copy of my original post which you included part of this thread

 

Noticed this quote on his website about this collection, I wonder what he has done to the books:

 

"Safeguards have been put in place to protect the integrity of these books from ever being compromised by various undisclosed methods of restoration which have become commonplace in today’s comic book marketplace"

 

His answer doesn't really say what are the "Safeguards"

 

Unless... you interpret the safeguards (restoration check by Susan) prior to the sale of the books is to prevent himself from restoring the books before their sale (hence, protecting the integrity of the books)

[Aman619]

but how is Susan going to be an alternative to CGC? For resto detection, sure, but is ahe going to grade the books too? Nah, that Marnins job. So we have a clear choice: Susan + Marnin or CGC? Seems like we're right back where we started, Marnin's CCNet grade vs CGCs "official" grade.

 

Seems like CGC will win out as they do now even with Susans resto detection added to Marnin;s "unofficial" grades. Anyway, I heard most of th books are solid mid-grades anyway. This sont be considerd a major pedigree. And, lets face it, how many here think CGC will ever honor Marnin's Trolley pedigree on a label???

[ComicSupply]

Um, I doubt that CGC will honor it, unless of course he sends them to them in the first place.

[Ze-man]

Here's Marnin's response to my email:

 

I had a very nice conversation with Kenny Sanderson this very evening. He will explain everything pertaining to the questions I have heard about which are circulating regarding ‘The Detroit Trolley Collection’.

 

 

Thought I should say....I would rather not speak for Marnin here on this forum.. It is not my place.

While I could relate what we talked about, I really do not feel comfortable speaking for him without a much better understanding of exactly what he is doing with his site.

I will say this... he certainly understands the delicate dynamic of this forum, and ALL parties involved here.

Yet he said I was the first person to actually call him and ask him questions point blank about all the recent topics discussed here.

That fact amazed me.

 

Perhaps others can simply call him, ask questions, and get answers as they see fit.

 

Ze-

Kenny

[nearmint]

Umm... What question did you ask him in the email?

 

Here's my original email to Marnin:

 

Hey Marnin,

Could you tell me what you mean by safeguards? Are you simply going to have high-resolution scans of the Detroit books, or are you going to somehow mark the books. There's a lot of speculation going on, and it would be so much easier to just have the facts.

Jeff

[FFB]

Here's Marnin's response to my email:

 

I had a very nice conversation with Kenny Sanderson this very evening. He will explain everything pertaining to the questions I have heard about which are circulating regarding ‘The Detroit Trolley Collection’.

 

 

Thought I should say....I would rather not speak for Marnin here on this forum.. It is not my place.

While I could relate what we talked about, I really do not feel comfortable speaking for him without a much better understanding of exactly what he is doing with his site.

I will say this... he certainly understands the delicate dynamic of this forum, and ALL parties involved here.

Yet he said I was the first person to actually call him and ask him questions point blank about all the recent topics discussed here.

That fact amazed me.

 

Perhaps others can simply call him, ask questions, and get answers as they see fit.

 

Ze-

Kenny

 

Yeah, well Jeff tried that. In case you missed it, Marnin said "Ask Kenny."

 

So what are these safeguards, Kenny?

[namisgr]

Let's face it, the two reasons for a collector to have a book encapsulated are the restoration check and the re-sale liquidity.

 

If books from Marnin's new collection are cleared of any restoration by Susan, and the books are sold with a certification as unrestored, then this is likely to be as reassuring to many potential buyers as the CGC resto check. As far as re-sale value, I suspect it will depend on the nature and quality of the collection - after all, some of the top Golden Age collections remain largely unencapsulated, and do fine in the marketplace. Consider, too, that Marnin is not a relative newbie to the high-grade market whose stock is tied to selling on E-Bay, and his experience and clientele provide opportunities for realizing high prices on raw books that wouldn't be available to many other sellers.

 

Finally, while I am unaware of any foolproof method for ensuring a book has not been tampered with in any way (i.e., via localized cover pressing or light non-chemical cleaning), I would think a digital record of the front and back covers of a collection can at least serve as a guide for future detection of cleaning or high-pressure whole-book pressing. The Heritage archives have proven this many times, already.

[kiltman]

Let's face it, the two reasons for a collector to have a book encapsulated are the restoration check and the re-sale liquidity.

 

Not true. Some people like me have books encapsulated for personal keep sakes and/or to protect their books as much as possible.

[Ze-man]

If books from Marnin's new collection are cleared of any restoration by Susan, and the books are sold with a certification as unrestored, then this is likely to be as reassuring to many potential buyers as the CGC resto check. As far as re-sale value, I suspect it will depend on the nature and quality of the collection - after all, some of the top Golden Age collections remain largely unencapsulated, and do fine in the marketplace. Consider, too, that Marnin is not a relative newbie to the high-grade market whose stock is tied to selling on E-Bay, and his experience and clientele provide opportunities for realizing high prices on raw books that wouldn't be available to many other sellers.

 

Finally, while I am unaware of any foolproof method for ensuring a book has not been tampered with in any way (i.e., via localized cover pressing or light non-chemical cleaning), I would think a digital record of the front and back covers of a collection can at least serve as a guide for future detection of cleaning or high-pressure whole-book pressing. The Heritage archives have proven this many times, already.

 

 

I would say that sums it up pretty darn well. And I agree there is no 100% Foolproof way to go about this, but it sure is an admirable start.

 

As I understand it there will be a database of scans for these books, coupled with Susans detailed resto check notes available for everyone to see. Making it possible for those interested to track/trace/compare these books for possible future tampering.

It also appears all of the Tolley books have an L written in pencil in the ULC,(at least from the ones he has seen personally) so I guess that is a kind of extra safeguard in itself. A Pencil Watermark if you will.

In regards to the other non Trolley books that will recieve this PFZ stamp. Even though they will have undergone Susan's resto check( but nobody can detect pressing 100% of the time right?)

Marnin says he knows where the books in his collection came from etc... but can anyone be really sure about the books lineage unless they bought their books like Harry did, and kept them in a drawer for 40 years.?

 

In the end it is at least a start towards trying to sell books in a Press Free Zone. In the hopes of providing the customers and community with a way to possibly track the books down the road.

And provide an alternative to those who want to purchase RAW books safely. I do not think it will render the PFZ seal moot if a book is slabbed. As long as CGC agrees with Susan the book was not restored, and the book appears to look the same after it is slabbed.

 

Scott..the reason I said I would rather not relate everything we spoke about is that we spoke about waaay too many things for me to remember anyything correctly, especially if I wanted to start quoting him. I had not planned on posting about it here and I had no idea he would tell Jeff to ask Kenny

My intent was certainly not to go the Zaid route and be a voice for a person who is not on this forum.

(Not that there is anything wrong with that.. )

 

I am not ignorant of the bad blood between CGC and Marnin, this is CGC's forum I respect that.

If Marnnin wants to write stuff about them on his site about them, that is his deal. I do not condone alot of what he says. He claims it all to be true, I have no idea what to believe. Nor the time or resources to try and figure it all out.

 

I was simply curious about this PFZ stuff on his site, so I called him and asked him about it. He was very friendly, and will probably answer more then you imagine about the questions you have if you call and ask in a civil manner. He has alot to say about many of the folks we know around here. And alot of it was very disturbing.

I will leave it at that.

 

Ze-

[Darthdiesel]

[Ze-man]

 

[Team America-migration]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz-Man rules!

[Red Hook]

Kenny, just say the word.

[nearmint]

He has alot to say about many of the folks we know around here. And alot of it was very disturbing.

I will leave it at that.

 

Ze-

 

Ze-

I hope you're taking what he says with a grain of salt(or perhaps a boulder would be more appropriate). Remember, this is the guy who once wrote me a rambling email at 3am accusing me of being a shill for Heritage, simply because I had a link to their site on mine(although he doesn't seem to mind that Heritage has a link to his site!).

The reason I said that slabbing one of these books will make the PFZ seal moot is that a CGC blue label has become the accepted standard for unrestored in the hobby. I'd much rather have that blue label then a raw book with a PFZ seal.