Marvel finally realizing it's current universe isn't so hot... 0

[Doktor]

37 minutes ago, Patriot6 said:

X-Men 92' is good. 

I think X-Men 92 is over though. I read it. It was OK. Too intentionally cheesy & obviously didn't take itself even slightly seriously, which kinda made it feel a little dumb. 

[Patriot6]

1 minute ago, Doktor said:

I think X-Men 92 is over though. I read it. It was OK. Too intentionally cheesy & obviously didn't take itself even slightly seriously, which kinda made it feel a little dumb. 

No it is still going. I like it. I thought it was refreshing because of the 90s art and that particular lineup.

[Silver Surfer]

Its about time. I haven't bought anything new in about a year as it was getting so ridiculous. 

[J.Biz]

I stopped all my Marvel this week. Sad yet satisfying at the same time.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Marvel needs some modern versions of writers/artists like McFarlane,Simonson ,Starlin,Perez, Miller, and Byrne to pull itself out of its doldrums. They also need a strong editor in chief like a modern version Jim Shooter. Right now they seem like they have no goal,but to publish multiple variant covers. It seems Marvel is more concerned about publishing variant covers than focusing on its universe and good stories. 

 

Edited February 12, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[wickedmountain]

On 2/10/2017 at 9:11 AM, Doc McCoy said:

Is it really that shocking given today's political climate that people would not want the same political ideology from either side of the isle shoved down their throats when reading comics?  Back in the 60's & 70's comics were a great medium for this, but in this day and age, where we're almost oversaturated with it between the 24hr news cycle and social media, I think most people that read comics would like to use them as an escape from real world issues. 

[ComicConnoisseur]

11 hours ago, wickedmountain said:

+1.

I just read some of those Denny O````neil and Neal Adams GL/GA and found them way too preachy. When I read them when I was younger I thought they were the cat`s meow,but as a 40 something not so much. I could pro-bally take one series a month like that,but from what I gather Marvel`s entire line is mostly like that now. Oh wonder why their sales are down. Their movies are all together different.

So comics are dressed up in costumes talking heads pontificating about issues,while their movies are all out fun and action.

When people spend their money nowadays they want to be entertained,not bored about superheroes standing around and whining.

This is why video-games are very popular.  Action and humor. 

Marvel Comics should get back to the basics,imagine if Nintendo got rid of it`s core characters like Mario,and Link, and replaced them with characters that stood around and complained all day how everything is no good?

 

lol.

 

Edited February 12, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[Doktor]

19 hours ago, Patriot6 said:

No it is still going. I like it. I thought it was refreshing because of the 90s art and that particular lineup.

Are you sure? I thought #10 or something was the final issue? It was on my pull list & I haven't seen it in a few months. 

[Patriot6]

19 minutes ago, Doktor said:

Are you sure? I thought #10 or something was the final issue? It was on my pull list & I haven't seen it in a few months. 

I have yet to read #10, I just picked up my bag from my LCS. Please don't be done! It and Aquaman are all I have left!

[Doktor]

1 minute ago, Patriot6 said:

I have yet to read #10, I just picked up my bag from my LCS. Please don't be done! It and Aquaman are all I have left!

I haven't seen it on the solicits in a few months. Sorry dude. 

[Patriot6]

Just now, Doktor said:

I haven't seen it on the solicits in a few months. Sorry dude. 

NOOOOOO! Although it still says 2015-present on the Marvel website? 

[Patriot6]

2 minutes ago, Doktor said:

I haven't seen it on the solicits in a few months. Sorry dude. 

If that is the case, that is my last Marvel as well....

[SquareChaos]

5 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

+1.

I just read some of those Denny O````neil and Neal Adams GL/GA and found them way too preachy. When I read them when I was younger I thought they were the cat`s meow,but as a 40 something not so much. I could pro-bally take one series a month like that,but from what I gather Marvel`s entire line is mostly like that now. Oh wonder why their sales are down. Their movies are all together different.

So comics are dressed up in costumes talking heads pontificating about issues,while their movies are all out fun and action.

When people spend their money nowadays they want to be entertained,not bored about superheroes standing around and whining.

This is why video-games are very popular.  Action and humor. 

Marvel Comics should get back to the basics,imagine if Nintendo got rid of it`s core characters like Mario,and Link, and replaced them with characters that stood around and complained all day how everything is no good?

 

lol.

 

From a business perspective, they want the younger crowd, and I guess that is how they thought they'd get them - "Legacy Heroes"  

It doesn't appear to be working. They're probably not desperate enough yet to put the work in the tell good stories though. 

 

Anyway, these legacy heroes didn't show up all in short order by accident and they clearly wouldn't make such a change to appeal to older readers...  which seems to be, mostly, how this board skews. Marvel probably assumes enough multi decade readers will stay around out of habit regardless of what they do... and that seems to be pretty well confirmed. 

 

Let's see what happens, but I'm not too optimistic, why should I be? 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

34 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

From a business perspective, they want the younger crowd, and I guess that is how they thought they'd get them - "Legacy Heroes"  

It doesn't appear to be working. They're probably not desperate enough yet to put the work in the tell good stories though. 

 

Anyway, these legacy heroes didn't show up all in short order by accident and they clearly wouldn't make such a change to appeal to older readers...  which seems to be, mostly, how this board skews. Marvel probably assumes enough multi decade readers will stay around out of habit regardless of what they do... and that seems to be pretty well confirmed. 

 

Let's see what happens, but I'm not too optimistic, why should I be? 

 

i know people who loved the Marvel movies, and wanted to try the comics,but said the Cap,Thor and Iron Man were vastly different than the movie versions, so they passed or stop reading the comics. Isn`t also the young crowd that loves the Marvel movie characters, so why did they replace them with the Legacy Heroes?

That might be a bigger blunder than the Spider-Man clone saga of the 1990s.

I think the only way to be optimistic is Marvel/Disney loves money,so they seen the lousy sales,so now they will fix it. 

[SquareChaos]

30 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

i know people who loved the Marvel movies, and wanted to try the comics,but said the Cap,Thor and Iron Man were vastly different than the movie versions, so they passed or stop reading the comics. Isn`t also the young crowd that loves the Marvel movie characters, so why did they replace them with the Legacy Heroes?

That might be a bigger blunder than the Spider-Man clone saga of the 1990s.

I think the only way to be optimistic is Marvel/Disney loves money,so they seen the lousy sales,so now they will fix it. 

That just points out another problem with the comics - those people could absolutely go back and read literally hundreds to thousands of issues that portray those characters a little bit more like they are portrayed in the movies... but apparently they didn't do that. If they'd tried, how would they have found anything or been able to make sense of it all? The system is horribly unfriendly towards newcomers.

Anyway, in general, I know lots of people who are fans of the movies who could give a about even considering reading comics. I think the cross section there is exceedingly small, but we're both just operating on confirmation bias there, while the argument that the 'legacy heroes' had a purpose is on more firm ground. Again, that sort of thing doesn't happen in a relatively short time by accident. It was very contrived.

Edited February 12, 2017 by SquareChaos

[ComicConnoisseur]

16 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

That just points out another problem with the comics - those people could absolutely go back and read literally hundreds to thousands of issues that portray those characters a little bit more like they are portrayed in the movies... but apparently they didn't do that. If they'd tried, how would they have found anything or been able to make sense of it all? The system is horribly unfriendly towards newcomers.

Anyway, in general, I know lots of people who are fans of the movies who could give a about even considering reading comics. I think the cross section there is exceedingly small, but we're both just operating on confirmation bias there, while the argument that the 'legacy heroes' had a purpose is on more firm ground. Again, that sort of thing doesn't happen in a relatively short time by accident. It was very contrived.

Do you think they should do a major reboot like DC did with Rebirth?

[SquareChaos]

Just now, ComicConnoisseur said:

Do you think they should do a major reboot like DC did with Rebirth?

They don't have much choice in my view. But I believe, if they do, that they had better invest a great deal of planning up front to ensure they're not creating another 'pocket universe' that implodes in upon itself in 18 - 24 months.

Here are the problems though... many of us claim to hate the giant events, but sales go up during said giant events. Many of us claim to hate the constant reboots, but again, sales go up when a new #1 is printed. The only economic incentive Marvel can bet on if they buckle down and set to with an intent to just write good stories again... is one of long term viability. How long can the reboots and renumbering continue to see a bump in sales once they're situation normal? Are they situation normal already...? I don't think we're quite there yet, but it's close.

[ComicConnoisseur]

4 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

They don't have much choice in my view. But I believe, if they do, that they had better invest a great deal of planning up front to ensure they're not creating another 'pocket universe' that implodes in upon itself in 18 - 24 months.

Here are the problems though... many of us claim to hate the giant events, but sales go up during said giant events. Many of us claim to hate the constant reboots, but again, sales go up when a new #1 is printed. The only economic incentive Marvel can bet on if they buckle down and set to with an intent to just write good stories again... is one of long term viability. How long can the reboots and renumbering continue to see a bump in sales once they're situation normal? Are they situation normal already...? I don't think we're quite there yet, but it's close.

Good points. Also at least with DC`s 52 it did last about a good 5 years which is so much better than Marvel`s number 1 book of the month club.  

[SquareChaos]

1 minute ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Good points. Also at least with DC`s 52 it did last about a good 5 years which is so much better than Marvel`s number 1 book of the month club.  

I was a fan of the New 52 for around 18 months, and then it started to go off the rails - I don't recall the exact count, and I don't know what it is now as I don't read any DC books anymore, but I think we had like ... 11? of the 52 books involved in the Bat universe. A lot of different, fringe books were killed for falling under an arbitrary sales line. Phantom Stranger and Dial H were my two favorites, but because they couldn't maintain.. and don't quote me here, I'm going on memory....12,000 sales month after month, they were killed.

How can anyone not think such a system is going to do anything but result in a centric / generic universe full of Batman and Superman books? I just don't understand the thought process. These companies need to have high level strategic planning, but it always looks tactical to me... like they're thinking just over the horizon and no further. They need better people at the helm, people who aren't hired / fired based on a quarter's worth of sales numbers so that they can afford to think strategically.

[Doktor]

2 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Do you think they should do a major reboot like DC did with Rebirth?

I think their best bet might be a time reset back to the pre-AvX continuity. Wipe out the Marvel NOW!, All-New Marvel NOW!, All-New All Different Marvel, and All New All Different Marvel NOW! phases and have someone go back, prevent AvX from happening & wipe out all of the legacy garbage that's happened since, including Civil War II, Secret War, etc. Essentially wipe out the past 5-7 years of stories & keep going with the old, legacy-character-free continuity.