Batman: Dark Detective, what'd ya think?

[CGCMINT]

"At this point it would be refreshing if they brought back the "clown prince of crime"- a Joker more interested in playing pranks on batman than killing people."

 

NO!!!! Keep him as the homicidal maniac that he is.

 

John

[helionaut]

The art was quite different from the original run, as should be expected. The art was nice and clean, but different and not as attractive to me, but that's not to say it was unattractive. I almost bought the TPB with the original run as I just have a few of the issues, but I only had $10 for comics this week. I like the idea for the story, "vote for me or I'll kill you" is good. Didn't he try running for mayor on that platform once? The plot and dialogue were almost painful, though. Let's see, Batman "tests" the security surrounding a fundraiser for a newcomer gubernatorial candidate. In the process, one of the cops takes a shot at him. But was it really a cop? Wouldn't Batman have dealt with a sniper? Whether it was a cop or not it should have been investigated "on camera." A thread dangles. Batman keeps hidden compartments in buildings all over town so he can do a costume change from cape to tux. Fine. It's a masked ball, but not everyone is wearing masks. Uh-huh. I did like the line about "Your mask makes you look so much better." Talk about a left-handed compliment. Joker kicks Batman in the jewels, but he's armoured there. Yes, I'm sure he would be. Why did no one try that before? Joker's suit is meltaway due to some sort of acid, but it doesn't burn him. And what's the point of that, anyway? That's the sort of old-school "gee whiz" gimmick that should've stayed in the Golden Age. The up-and-down bit on the elevator was nice. But the key for the series, and probably for a good many ongoing plotlines to come is the rekindling of the romance with Silver. Sure she's engaged to the would-be gov, but he's nothing compared to Bats. If Norman Osborne could peg Mary Jane Watson, Batman could get Silver. Will I buy it next month? Probably. Will I enjoy it? I hope so.

[Zonker]

But the key for the series, and probably for a good many ongoing plotlines to come is the rekindling of the romance with Silver. Sure she's engaged to the would-be gov, but he's nothing compared to Bats. If Norman Osborne could peg Mary Jane Watson, Batman could get Silver. Will I buy it next month? Probably. Will I enjoy it? I hope so.

 

So here's the next question for idle speculation: With the Silver plotline, is Steve Englehart going for a remake of Casablanca, with the senator in the Victor Lazlo role to Bat's Rick? Or are the senator and the Joker working together? My money is on the latter-- that encounter with the Joker the senator walked away from was a bit too convenient.

[Zonker]

 

Good stuff! I liked the psychological spin and of course the inevitable Silver reunion (surprised it happened so soon though!) The only seemingly-false note was the Batman callously taking the night off and allowing the police to fail to protect Mr. Haney. That policeman had a point-- Batman is almost responsible for what happened: this is the Joker for cryin out loud-- He always gets in to the locked room to kill his victim!

 

But Englehart obviously isn't going to let the Batman off the hook for this one-- no doubt Haney's murder is going to be a major driver for the rest of the mini-series. And I'm on record as wanting a more human Batman-- so I can't complain. If skipping out on the job to hook up with an old girlfriend isn't human, then what is?

[Norrin_Radd]

Like NearMint, I skimmed it and passed.

 

I bought Catwoman: When In Rome #1 & #2, instead. Great read so far with great Tim Sale art.

 

http://www.comicreaders.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1076

 

[Aman619]

okay - -- I bought both issues as they came out. But I skimmed the pages and went yeecchhhhh. Rogers was a mix of Adams and Simonson back in the 70s. Great detailed beautifully designed pages and figures. THIS on the other hand is awkward, still, looks drawn 100% not shrunk down!!, and in a few spots like latter Ditko! if thats possible. Needless to say I didnt read it.

 

But, I just had to spend a few minutes in the 'library' and grabbed issues 1 and 2 to finally plod through... if I could.

 

and wow! If you sit down and read the story, its a great start. Twists and turns and a setup for bigger and better utilizing the full canvas of Bat villains etc like HUSH did. AND - - - - old Bruce gets a taste!!!!!

 

So now in spite of the less than spectacular artwork, Im eagerly awaiting the rest. And I was about to come here and start a threda about it!! ooops

[scourge456789-migration]

Yeah it was just OK.

[Jokerman]

 

 

Joker--

[CGCMINT]

if anybody is interested, here's an interview w/ Steve Englehart by Alex Segura Jr.

 

John

 

http://www.thegreatcurve.net/2005/05/sitting-down-with-steve-englehart.html

 

Sunday, May 01, 2005

 

Sitting down with Steve Englehart

 

There's a short list of creators universally hailed as "essential" when it comes to the Dark Knight,and Steve Englehart is one of them. In a relatively short time, and with the stellar art team of penciller Marshall Rogers and inker Terry Austin on Detective Comics, Englehart left an indelible stamp on Batman. And fans will get another dose of the Englehart/Rogers/Austin magic with the upcoming Dark Detective mini-series from DC. I sat down with Englehart to chat about the series and his past work. Join us for a bit.

 

ALEX SEGURA JR.: What is it about Batman the character that made you want to come back? Some creators have trouble taking second go-rounds with characters they're so closely tied to.

 

STEVE ENGLEHART: I just think he's a great character. I'm nowhere close to running out of things to explore with him, and I have hopes of continuing.

 

SEGURA: What have you been up to the past few years, writing-wise?

 

ENGLEHART: I wrote the scenario for the TRON 2.0 computer game at Disney, developed an animated series for Coyote at Disney that didn't pan out, and wrote episodes of "Team Atlantis" for Disney. I don't only work for the Mouse, but most of my time has been with electronic media of one sort or another.

 

SEGURA: Did you feel there were some loose ends in your initial Detective Comics run with Marshall Rogers that needed to be tied up, or was this more of a right place, right time deal?

 

ENGLEHART: Well, if that first run had been all there was, it could have stood on its own - but obviously, the relationships between Bruce and Silver, and between the Batman and the Joker - and between Silver and the Joker - could be developed further, and that's what we've done.

 

SEGURA: As someone who's written comics consistently for the past three decades, how has the industry changed? Has it changed for the better? Where would you like to see it go?

 

ENGLEHART: Oh man, I'm not going there.

 

SEGURA: Ha! Understandable. Some fans bemoaned the fact that some of your classic Bat stories, or elements from those stories, were "retconned" by Crisis. Specifically, Silver St. Cloud, Hugo Strange's personality, Rupert Thorne, etc. Did you feel that was the case?

 

ENGLEHART: With so many different takes on the Batman out there, there are bound to be things like that, but our Dark Detective runs are internally consistent, and as consistent as possible with overall continuity, and that's all I can do.

 

SEGURA: Are there any other characters you'd like a crack at writing?

 

ENGLEHART: Well, I'm old school in that I find whatever's interesting in whatever character I work on, so assuming there's something there to work with, I can get into anybody. Naturally, a title that's already popular is more lucrative, but I like the challenges in making a title popular. Therefore, I'm not panting after anyone in particular; I'd just want a character with a lot of potential.

 

SEGURA: What's it like working with Marshall Rogers? Was it easy sliding back into a collaborative role with him?

 

ENGLEHART: Absolutely. In addition to Dark Detective, we've done Coyote, Scorpio Rose, Silver Surfer and his Foozle, so we've got the partnership thing down pretty good by now.

 

And although Terry Austin and I have only done Batman and a one-shot story for Vampirella (magazine, not character), we're just as compatible. All three of us are not only on the same page, but on the same paragraph, when it comes to the Batman.

 

SEGURA: Tell me a little bit about the Big Town mini-series you did for Marvel. Did that pan out as you thought it would? What worked/didn't?

 

ENGLEHART: That was an almost complete disaster. I sold it to one editor, who had to hand it to a complete newbie. He didn't know how to edit, and his bosses didn't understand the concept in the first place, so in the end, the series was undercut at every turn. It had some of the dumbest editorial meddling I've ever seen, and I've been around for a while. There are things done to that series that no one can explain. My "favorite": in #4, the Silver Surfer comes flying in from the sky, and nobody's been underground - and they added a caption saying "From the center of the earth." I mean, if one can say this in this forum - WTF?

 

SEGURA: What makes a great Batman story? What do most writers miss about the character?

 

ENGLEHART: The main thing missing from many stories is Bruce Wayne - the man who is the Batman. The identity he took on is wonderful, but it's the whole package that we need to know.

 

SEGURA: I've found that you're very skilled at balancing the human and vigilante aspects of Batman. Do you think people relate best with Batman when he's a touch more human and less robotic creature of the night?

 

ENGLEHART: Well, that's a good part of why our run's been so influential for nearly 30 years. People may be awed and thrilled by a costume or an attitude, but people relate to people.

 

SEGURA: Tell us a little bit about Dark Detective. Can someone that isn't familiar with your original run with Marshall jump right in?

 

ENGLEHART: Definitely. I provided two quick flashbacks in the first issue to bring new readers up to speed, but once there, everybody can take the ride. I know as well as anybody that the first run was both essential and a while ago, so I took care to make things clear and to make them easy. The story itself does put Bruce and Silver back together after some amount of time - enough for each to have put the other out of their lives completely - and throws the Joker, Two-Face, the Scarecrow, and Dr Double X on top of them, all at the same time. It's clear, easy...and very dense.

 

SEGURA: Do you see yourself doing more comic book writing in the coming years?

 

ENGLEHART: I certainly hope so. I've been reminded a lot these past six months that I've entertained a lot of people doing comics, and I enjoy doing that.

 

SEGURA: Anything else you'd like to share?

 

ENGLEHART: Just - pick up the comics and enjoy the summer. Don't wait for the collection because there won't be one if you don't have the fun here and now.

[kidcolt]

I was waiting fir this series for months. I was very excited, I have to say so far I am disapointed. I don't think its very good.

[shrunkenhead]

Contrary to what I said earlier, I have been picking up the series as it comes out (made more trips to the LCS than I'd originally anticipated). Just picked up issue four...and yeah, I think the series kinda stinks. I'll pick up #'s 5 and 6 for completion's sake, but I'm not terribly excited to read them. Dull stuff. Let's hope the upcoming Batman 12-issue mini is a little more fun and worthwhile.

[shrunkenhead]

Oh, but I should add that I've really enjoyed the first two issues of Batman: Jekyll & Hyde. I think that one's going to be a sleeper. Nobody's really talking about the book, but it's got some solid artwork and, most importantly, the best rendering of Two-Face's complicated nature since Arkham Asylum. And that's no small praise!

[Zonker]

 

I just read #5 last night, and I think the art on this one is the best yet. Yes, Rogers and Austin are still more cartoony than I remember from their classic period, and you need to get quickly past their highly exaggerated Joker splash page. But I really liked the sequence where the Batman makes the rounds of his informants ("Giella, Novick, Friedrich, Robbins") to find the Joker's location. That sequence had a great nighttime urban feel that took me back to the Detective 475-476 period.

 

Scarecrow was dispatched pretty easily, but I guess that's because Englehart definitely sees him as a second-tier villain. And I confess I'm mystified by the whole business with Two-Face, Double-X and the cloning. I had thought it cool that Englehart and Rogers might rehabilitate Double-X for the current decade the same way they remade Deadshot for the 1970s, but I have no idea where this particular thread is going.

 

But I think the Batman/Silver/Joker/Senator quadrangle is very well done.

 

Hoping for a memorable resolution in #6.

[Kevin Boyd]

just read #5 last night, and I think the art on this one is the best yet.

 

I thought the same thing when I read it yesterday. I've seen Marshall's recent commissions and they are stunning so the only thing that might have hurt his pencils in the first few issues were Austin's inks - maybe it's taken Terry a while to warm up....

[Zonker]

 

link

 

 

Having just done a sequel to his Detective Comics run for DC, Steve Englehart said at Mid-Ohio Con, Nov. 26 and 27, that he is rejoining the Justice League of America. Englehart, who wrote a memorable run of the JLA’s title in the 1970s, said he is working on a four-issue arc of JLA Classified that will lead into a three-issue JSA Classified story.

 

"I would expect that we’re going to do another Dark Detective run. It looks like we will but we haven’t gotten the final go-ahead on that yet," he said, noting the mini-series sold about 2 ½ times better than DC had anticipated.

[Hobgoblin]