General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[Snake Eyes]

CGC should follow Pay Pal's requirements to the letter. They should not allow sellers to DEMAND personal payments

 

CGC shouldn't care one way or the other. The potential for fraud with PayPal personal is exactly the same as it is with check or money order.

 

True, but I imagine CGC might have something to say if the sellers monkeyed with those forms of payment too. No one is dictating how you pay by check or money order if they accept the instrument. Further, no terms of use of these instruments by the post office/banks are being violated as near as I can tell.

 

SE

[jpolz]

I agree to an extent. However, Pay Pal's terms of service don't say anything about accepting personal payments as a violation. Their only violation is a seller "demanding" or "asking for" personal payments. Unless a buyer complains about being forced to pay personal they don't have a recourse against it.

 

They do, it's payment review (4.3 of the user agreement). If you have what they consider an "excessive percentage" of your payments received as personal payments, you may get an email from paypal saying they've disabled your ability to receive personal payments. It happened to several guys on another forum I'm on.

 

 

CGC should follow Pay Pal's requirements to the letter. They should not allow sellers to DEMAND personal payments but if buyers want to offer to pay in that manner there's not much they can do about it.

 

Paypal warns buyers the following about using the personal payment method:

 

1 - You cannot file a dispute if you use the personal payment method.

2 - If you use your credit card as the Payment Method for a Personal Payment, you may be charged a cash-advance fee by your credit card company.

 

Given that, why would a buyer voluntarily give up any dispute protections, no matter how lame they may be, or risk purchases being charged as cash-advances? No, when a buyer pays via for merchandise the personal payment method it's realistic to assume the seller asked them to.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

I assume CGC ended the public and required use of it due to the legal reasons noted above. They were putting themselves at legal risk (debatable if they would have been nailed, but risk was present nonetheless) for absolutely no gain on their end.

 

WHAT legal risk? The only legal risk I've seen pointed out so far is people assuming that the PayPal terms of service somehow apply to CGC, which they don't. And even if they did, it doesn't matter, because it's the seller whose PayPal account would get shut down.

 

Anybody know where the explanation Architect gave for this move is? Link, thread title, or which forum it was in would help find it. I did a 3-month search for the phrase "paypal" in messages by Architecht and found nothing.

[comix4fun]

CGC should follow Pay Pal's requirements to the letter. They should not allow sellers to DEMAND personal payments

 

CGC shouldn't care one way or the other. The potential for fraud with PayPal personal is exactly the same as it is with check or money order.

 

 

Explicitly allowing something that is in direct violation of another site's terms and conditions opens them up to issues they don't want to deal with.

 

I don't see an issue with CGC not wanting to be considered a venue that promotes circumvention of Pay Pals TOS.

 

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Explicitly allowing something that is in direct violation of another site's terms and conditions opens them up to issues they don't want to deal with.

 

What issues?

[Shootydog]

I assume CGC ended the public and required use of it due to the legal reasons noted above. They were putting themselves at legal risk (debatable if they would have been nailed, but risk was present nonetheless) for absolutely no gain on their end.

 

WHAT legal risk? The only legal risk I've seen pointed out so far is people assuming that the PayPal terms of service somehow apply to CGC, which they don't. And even if they did, it doesn't matter, because it's the seller whose PayPal account would get shut down.

 

Anybody know where the explanation Architect gave for this move is? Link, thread title, or which forum it was in would help find it. I did a 3-month search for the phrase "paypal" in messages by Architecht and found nothing.

 

Frankly I dont care about a legal risk. I am concerned about covering my . If I use Paypal personal payment to buy something from you than I am not protected if the deal goes south. I will risk it on small amount purchase and if I get screwed...no more dealing with that person. On larger dollar amount purchases I will pay normally or I won't buy.

 

Who cares what CGC requires...I am following my own guidelines and any smart buyer would do the same. In turn I never require or ask for paypal personal...just paypal. I gladly pay the convenience fee.

[drbanner]

Anybody know where the explanation Architect gave for this move is? Link, thread title, or which forum it was in would help find it. I did a 3-month search for the phrase "paypal" in messages by Architecht and found nothing.

 

There wasn't really an explanation, but he did solicit input here in the "Guidelines" thread before implementing the change, and then later that evening announced the change.

 

The bottom line is that some sellers were requiring payment by PP Personal, which isn't really appropriate. I don't think CGC or Arch want to get involved in the financial transaction aspect of the sales boards, so the language in the rule "...as a listed option in your post..." pretty much leaves it up to the buyer/seller to complete the transaction as they deem fit, although you can't list PP Personal as a payment option in your post.

[fantastic_four]

There wasn't really an explanation, but he did solicit input here in the "Guidelines" thread before implementing the change, and then later that evening announced the change.

 

The bottom line is that some sellers were requiring payment by PP Personal, which isn't really appropriate. I don't think CGC or Arch want to get involved in the financial transaction aspect of the sales boards, so the language in the rule "...as a listed option in your post..." pretty much leaves it up to the buyer/seller to complete the transaction as they deem fit, although you can't list PP Personal as a payment option in your post.

 

Thanks! I read through that...makes very little sense. Easily worked around, but retarded.

 

Not that I'm convinced that there isn't some reason for CGC to prevent people from publicly requesting PayPal personal payments, but I haven't seen evidence that anyone knows one of those concrete reasons. For example, if CGC allows customers to pay for slabbing fees or Collector's Society membership fees via PayPal, then they'd want to avoid risking their PayPal account by dissuading people from evading PayPal's rules on their forums. That's the kind of reasoning I expected to read somewhere, but didn't.

[mschmidt]

Most of the CGC risk would be in terms of public relations, as allowing this is just opening up the door for scam artists, as well as CGC being viewed as aiding users in contravening the Paypal TOS.

 

The way I look at it, there are only downsides to CGC allowing Paypal personal payments, and since CGC doesn't make a penny off board transactions, there is absolutely no upside.

 

 

 

I agree to an extent. However, Pay Pal's terms of service don't say anything about accepting personal payments as a violation. Their only violation is a seller "demanding" or "asking for" personal payments. Unless a buyer complains about being forced to pay personal they don't have a recourse against it.

 

CGC should follow Pay Pal's requirements to the letter. They should not allow sellers to DEMAND personal payments but if buyers want to offer to pay in that manner there's not much they can do about it.

 

Which is exactly what CGC is doing - they're not allowing people to openly demand personal payments, but they have not banned the use of personal paypal payments altogether on this site

[comix4fun]

Most of the CGC risk would be in terms of public relations, as allowing this is just opening up the door for scam artists, as well as CGC being viewed as aiding users in contravening the Paypal TOS.

 

The way I look at it, there are only downsides to CGC allowing Paypal personal payments, and since CGC doesn't make a penny off board transactions, there is absolutely no upside.

 

 

 

I agree to an extent. However, Pay Pal's terms of service don't say anything about accepting personal payments as a violation. Their only violation is a seller "demanding" or "asking for" personal payments. Unless a buyer complains about being forced to pay personal they don't have a recourse against it.

 

CGC should follow Pay Pal's requirements to the letter. They should not allow sellers to DEMAND personal payments but if buyers want to offer to pay in that manner there's not much they can do about it.

 

Which is exactly what CGC is doing - they're not allowing people to openly demand personal payments, but they have not banned the use of personal paypal payments altogether on this site

 

 

Yep, I was referring to motive and institution of the policy in place, not advocating a change.

[fantastic_four]

Which is exactly what CGC is doing - they're not allowing people to openly demand personal payments, but they have not banned the use of personal paypal payments altogether on this site

 

Yea, they have banned it publicly--you can't list PayPal personal as an option at all in the sales forums. Privately, they obviously have no control over anything you do.

[joe_collector]

Yea, they have banned it publicly--you can't list PayPal personal as an option at all in the sales forums. Privately, they obviously have no control over anything you do.

 

Why did you ever think they did?

 

All this does is ensure that the growing number of "personal Paypal required" sellers couldn't use the CGC forums to actively circumvent the Paypal TOS, or force buyers over the barrel in PMs. This was popping up everywhere, which was why CGC acted.

 

Now, if a seller does attempt this, the buyer can cry foul and it's all there in black and white.

 

Meanwhile, close friends buying and selling amongst each other, who freely agree to use the personal payment option, can go about their business.

[Bosco685]

Should we have a new section dedicated just to trading between forumites?

 

A few folks have wanted to post a trading section, and then they get bounced around between the Sales Forum and the WTB Forum.

 

Why not have a dedicated area just for trading, with general rules outlining how trades should be handled?

[Boozad]

It seems trades are becoming more and more prevalent on the boards, and with the SS forums having a successful trading post in there that seems to be working, I think this would be a great idea Nick.

[CJ]

At what dollar amount does the personal payment option charge the person sending money a fee.

I have had this happen to me a several purchases?

 

[Bosco685]

At what dollar amount does the personal payment option charge the person sending money a fee.

I have had this happen to me a several purchases?

I don't think it is based on amount. It is based on the option you choose.

 

Let me read the Terms & Conditions on PayPal and see what it says.

[thehumantorch]

At what dollar amount does the personal payment option charge the person sending money a fee.

I have had this happen to me a several purchases?

I don't think it is based on amount. It is based on the option you choose.

 

Let me read the Terms & Conditions on PayPal and see what it says.

 

I believe the fee is charged if the money is sent to another country. I'm always charged if I buy from anyone outside of Canada.

[Bosco685]

Just read through the details again. How you are funding a personal payment makes the difference, in addition to foreign destination.

 

PayPal Send Money - When Fees Apply

 

I always pay via my bank account tied to PayPal, so never had the problem of personal funds transfer fees that others have experienced.

[comicdonna]

At what dollar amount does the personal payment option charge the person sending money a fee.

I have had this happen to me a several purchases?

I don't think it is based on amount. It is based on the option you choose.

 

Let me read the Terms & Conditions on PayPal and see what it says.

 

I believe the fee is charged if the money is sent to another country. I'm always charged if I buy from anyone outside of Canada.

I think it's if you have a bank account or credit/debit card attached to your paypal account. If the funds come out of your bank account or card instead of a paypal banance, you get charged.

[Bosco685]

At what dollar amount does the personal payment option charge the person sending money a fee.

I have had this happen to me a several purchases?

I don't think it is based on amount. It is based on the option you choose.

 

Let me read the Terms & Conditions on PayPal and see what it says.

 

I believe the fee is charged if the money is sent to another country. I'm always charged if I buy from anyone outside of Canada.

I think it's if you have a bank account or credit/debit card attached to your paypal account. If the funds come out of your bank account or card instead of a paypal banance, you get charged.

Both!

 

Read the link above and when you go to the PayPal site, it outlines both scenarios.