General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[MrBedrock]

Fact check

 

 

The majority of your fact checks are facts wrapped in your opinion.

As are yours. Fact.

 

I only have one fact check and this is it?

I think one about covers it (thumbs u

 

Oh got it.

I'm sure Oh got it. He's pretty smart. But did you get it?

 

Of course I'd did. Why wouldn't I? It's fairly obvious.........ok, no I have no clue what you're talking about.

Oh (thumbs u

[N/A]

[mschmidt]

- The comic in question used to reside in a slab with a grade two units lower. This is fact, not opinion.

- Definition of 'deceitful', which fits the attempted sale of the comic in question: Deception, beguilement, deceit, bluff, mystification, bad faith, and subterfuge are acts to propagate beliefs that are not true, or not the whole truth, as in half-truths or omission.

 

So ... I'm being deceitful if I don't mention that any slabbed book I sell was, at some point in its life, most likely a 9.8 (no matter what the current CGC grade is)?

 

Or does it only apply to books going up in grade?

[pickycollector]

If I have bought a book raw from Zillaf graded by him as VF- a few years ago on eBay, graded it myself raw as NM- and it finally came back as 9.6 from CGC, should I disclose all that information ?

 

What is the accurate grade of that book then ?

 

Or maybe grading is only an opinion, including CGC's grading ?

[thirdgreenham]

Fact check

 

 

The majority of your fact checks are facts wrapped in your opinion.

As are yours. Fact.

 

I only have one fact check and this is it?

I think one about covers it (thumbs u

 

Oh got it.

I'm sure Oh got it. He's pretty smart. But did you get it?

 

[comix4fun]

Your opinion and not fact is whether that omission is relevant. It is not relevant to everyone. Did he omit that he was not the original owner? Were you being deceitful when you implied the comic had lost a pedigree? Half truth?

 

'Fact check'

- There was never any mention of the FF26 losing a pedigree designation. Indeed, it didn't: http://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?back=%2Fsearch%2Easp%3Fwhere%3Dsell%26title%3Dfantastic%2Bfour%26ItemType%3DCB%26pg%3D5%26x%3D14%26y%3D2&id=903188

- It's not opinion but fact that the boards include buyers using the marketplace who want to know if a seller is witholding this type of information on a comic (a two-unit change in CGC grade upon regrading), information that would impact their buying decisions.

- It's understood that not every marketplace buyer wants or requires the same information to make buying decisions comfortably

 

 

You do realize every time you use the term "Fact Check" and/or define simple English words to college and graduate school educated people (who know exactly what the words mean already) you lose more people that might have supported your overarching theme of transparency in selling, right?

Is that a fact?

 

 

And it's just begging for a good checking.

[thirdgreenham]

If I have bought a book raw from Zillaf graded by him as VF- a few years ago on eBay, graded it myself raw as NM- and it finally came back as 9.6 from CGC, should I disclose all that information ?

 

What is the accurate grade of that book then ?

 

Or maybe grading is only an opinion, including CGC's grading ?

 

Personally, I would like to know CGC's previous opinion of a book, if that information is known by the seller. That's me.

 

If the seller felt like giving Zilla's grade, and his own grade as well, great. More info will help me make an more-informed decision. (thumbs u

 

What's the accurate grade of the book? After I see it, then I can tell you.

 

 

[pickycollector]

Personally, I would like to know CGC's previous opinion of a book

 

Problem is that CGC is not a person nor a single entity but a team with graders whom has changed thoughout the years. The same unpressed book could be submitted several times and gets very different grade each time. Some years or specific periods have seen tighter grading by CGC while others have seen much looser grading. Inside it's still the same book that would look the same raw in a Mylar but the big number on the upper left corner has changed.

 

Once again it's all about buying the book or the label.

 

I always ask many questions when possible before buying an expensive CGC book as it is the book I want to purchase, not the label. Some people though do care only about the label, so even if there is a turd in the slab but the label says "9.8" they will trust almighty CGC grading opinion and buy it anyway.

[namisgr]

Personally, I would like to know CGC's previous opinion of a book, if that information is known by the seller. That's me.

 

If the seller felt like giving Zilla's grade, and his own grade as well, great. More info will help me make an more-informed decision. (thumbs u

 

What's the accurate grade of the book? After I see it, then I can tell you.

 

 

+1

[N/A]

Personally, I would like to know CGC's previous opinion of a book, if that information is known by the seller. That's me.

 

If the seller felt like giving Zilla's grade, and his own grade as well, great. More info will help me make an more-informed decision. (thumbs u

 

What's the accurate grade of the book? After I see it, then I can tell you.

 

 

+1

 

And you have every right to ask for that information. You do not have the right to force that information on others.

[Bosco685]

Personally, I would like to know CGC's previous opinion of a book, if that information is known by the seller. That's me.

 

If the seller felt like giving Zilla's grade, and his own grade as well, great. More info will help me make an more-informed decision. (thumbs u

 

What's the accurate grade of the book? After I see it, then I can tell you.

 

 

+1

 

And you have every right to ask for that information. You do not have the right to force that information on others.

 

[skypinkblu]

Personally, I would like to know CGC's previous opinion of a book, if that information is known by the seller. That's me.

 

If the seller felt like giving Zilla's grade, and his own grade as well, great. More info will help me make an more-informed decision. (thumbs u

 

What's the accurate grade of the book? After I see it, then I can tell you.

 

 

+1

 

And you have every right to ask for that information. You do not have the right to force that information on others.

 

If I ever do another sales thread, PLEASE remind me to include a blind option...that way I can hide my pictures, and descriptions, I would never want to force INFORMATION on others...

 

We'd never want to let a little thing like INFORMATION get in the way of making a decision;)

 

My guess is, you are not a teacher;) am I right?

 

[Bosco685]

 

If I ever do another sales thread, PLEASE remind me to include a blind option...that way I can hide my pictures, and descriptions, I would never want to force INFORMATION on others...

 

We'd never want to let a little thing like INFORMATION get in the way of making a decision;)

 

My guess is, you are not a teacher;) am I right?

 

 

I never dreamed of you blowing a situation out of proportion. I didn't see Jeff post not having pictures or other reasonable information to help make a buying decision.

 

Following this mindset, if someone is teaching a topic, they must ensure that multiple textbooks are presented so we get everyone's viewpoint - not just the commonly accepted view of a topic. This way, kids are left wondering "what did I just learn" rather than being close to comprehension.

 

 

[Bosco685]

So going forward, is the expectation if someone knows the full grading history of a book they will be expected to publish this in a sales thread?

 

I had a book that was in a PGX 9.4 case, which then I broke out and submitted to CGC and it came back a 9.6 Universal. But then when I submitted it for signing at a show, it received a grade bump and ended up 9.8 SS.

 

So should I publish all this history if I ever sell the book?

[N/A]

Personally, I would like to know CGC's previous opinion of a book, if that information is known by the seller. That's me.

 

If the seller felt like giving Zilla's grade, and his own grade as well, great. More info will help me make an more-informed decision. (thumbs u

 

What's the accurate grade of the book? After I see it, then I can tell you.

 

 

+1

 

And you have every right to ask for that information. You do not have the right to force that information on others.

 

If I ever do another sales thread, PLEASE remind me to include a blind option...that way I can hide my pictures, and descriptions, I would never want to force INFORMATION on others...

 

We'd never want to let a little thing like INFORMATION get in the way of making a decision;)

 

My guess is, you are not a teacher;) am I right?

 

 

I'm a little disappointed with this comment Sharon. If you have a sales thread provide any information you like in accordance with the rules. I would defend your right to list how you see fit against anyone who thought you should list their way.

[N/A]

So going forward, is the expectation if someone knows the full grading history of a book they will be expected to publish this in a sales thread?

 

I had a book that was in a PGX 9.4 case, which then I broke out and submitted to CGC and it came back a 9.6 Universal. But then when I submitted it for signing at a show, it received a grade bump and ended up 9.8 SS.

 

So should I publish all this history if I ever sell the book?

 

What if you submit 2 copies of the same book? Would you know which is which?

[Bosco685]

So going forward, is the expectation if someone knows the full grading history of a book they will be expected to publish this in a sales thread?

 

I had a book that was in a PGX 9.4 case, which then I broke out and submitted to CGC and it came back a 9.6 Universal. But then when I submitted it for signing at a show, it received a grade bump and ended up 9.8 SS.

 

So should I publish all this history if I ever sell the book?

 

What if you submit 2 copies of the same book? Would you know which is which?

 

 

No trick questions here, Mister Teacher!

 

[Bio-Rupp]

So going forward, is the expectation if someone knows the full grading history of a book they will be expected to publish this in a sales thread?

 

I had a book that was in a PGX 9.4 case, which then I broke out and submitted to CGC and it came back a 9.6 Universal. But then when I submitted it for signing at a show, it received a grade bump and ended up 9.8 SS.

 

So should I publish all this history if I ever sell the book?

 

A great point here.

 

How long down the chronological sales track would this little tidbit be remembered? The only way detail like this could be kept alive is by notation on the CGC label.

 

Perhaps then its CGC's responsibility to list previous grades given to a reslabed books, either up or down, on that label. Oh wait, that would mean they were wrong once. Or twice.

 

Again... great point to make the brain-noggin turn, Nick.

 

[skypinkblu]

Well, I'm sorry if either of you are disappointed in me, but frankly, it's a two way street. I'm disappointed in the vehement defense against disclosure.

 

I apologize if my example was dramatic,, but sometimes, it needs to be..

 

I see NO reason for hiding or not disclosing ANY information unless you think that information will stop a buyer from buying something and if that is the rationale for not disclosing, then I'm against it.

 

I don't believe that Caveat Emptor is a principal we should adhere to on this forum...I really don't follow that guideline in any part of my life personally, but I hate the idea of even the possibility of following it here. I view this forum as an extension of my family.

 

While I probably would not have made the post that Bob made, I do believe that an informed consumer can make a better decision.

 

As I told you in the PM, I've learned a lot here. Before I came to this forum, I made a lot of less informed buying decisions, because I DID NOT KNOW what to ask. People were kind enough to teach me quite a bit about restoration, rarity, all kinds of things, and I believe in paying forward kindnesses.

 

We have lots of people here, who are not experts, information is not harmful, unless you as a seller are trying to hide something that you think will affect your bottom line.

 

 

 

 

[skypinkblu]

Oh, and that reply was to Branget, but it's probably OK for all three of the B's;)

 

anyway....Have a lovely day, life is too short, I have no more arguments to make...I stand by my statement...

 

and NO, I don't really care about when a book was bought off the rack, or the 72 grades it was 52 years ago, I don't buy books that way...

 

I'm ONLY arguing for disclosure of as much information as a seller has available So, if I press a book, or color on it, or if I CRACK it, I'm going to just write that in my description