General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[Spider-Dan]

I don't know about anyone else.... but I don't manipulate time stamps. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

I didn't mean to imply that you did

 

It was just shown that it could be

[Transplant]

Based on what I've been told by multiple sellers, if a deal is reached via PM, I have been asked to make the sale official by posting the within the thread. Until I do so, someone can come in with an unconditional and I would be SOL since the unconditional trumps all deals via PM.

 

 

I've been criticized for this -

 

" IN the Thread Trumps ANY and ALL PM negotiations "

 

But it really is the fairest way.

 

As a seller if we agree in a PM, and you want to keep it private, I will try my best to mark it for you in the thread. But you run the risk of losing it to someone who posts in the meantime.

 

As a buyer, I know I run the risk of losing the book by keeping things private.

 

 

 

I can see why you'd get criticized for it. Posting " IN the Thread Trumps ANY and ALL PM negotiations " doesn't cover done deals by PM, only ongoing negotiations.

 

Someone agrees to a deal with you. Both sides accept. Everyone believes there's a deal. Then there isn't. Most people would expect a done deal...with both parties accepting the deal as something beyond "negotiations". Negotiations are over at that point, all that's left is the contract.

 

It allows for a loop hole of you and a buyer agreeing and then, perhaps there's an unavoidable delay in posting the book sold...maybe for a day or two, and then someone takes it for full price in the thread. Perhaps even after you've been paid.

 

So, yes, I can see the criticism to which you'd be opening up yourself.

 

[comix4fun]

Based on what I've been told by multiple sellers, if a deal is reached via PM, I have been asked to make the sale official by posting the within the thread. Until I do so, someone can come in with an unconditional and I would be SOL since the unconditional trumps all deals via PM.

 

 

I've been criticized for this -

 

" IN the Thread Trumps ANY and ALL PM negotiations "

 

But it really is the fairest way.

 

As a seller if we agree in a PM, and you want to keep it private, I will try my best to mark it for you in the thread. But you run the risk of losing it to someone who posts in the meantime.

 

As a buyer, I know I run the risk of losing the book by keeping things private.

 

Dan, this is only "fair" if you don't respect someone's desire for privacy. If the terms are spelled out in the listing that PM's are honored, then there is nothing unfair at all. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

..... they're really just comics.... it's not like we're jockeying for a spot on the waiting list for a kidney.

 

 

I think it was this seller editing his post containing the terms of sale and allowing to PM sale to take precedence based on time AFTER the PM sale was posted that was the cause of issues.

[jimjum12]

I don't know about anyone else.... but I don't manipulate time stamps. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

I didn't mean to imply that you did

 

It was just shown that it could be

 

I've done business with you before and you have my respect.... and I follow your rules in your thread.....if I get there in time ......and I would probably take your word even if the facts suggested otherwise. I knew you weren't singling me out GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

...much of this debate just highlights the reasons why in the thread isn't part of the gudelines.... some see it as a "disclosure" issue, some a "privacy" issue..... and let's face it, Bid by Proxy is an accepted procedure in the real world for a reason.

[comix4fun]

Based on what I've been told by multiple sellers, if a deal is reached via PM, I have been asked to make the sale official by posting the within the thread. Until I do so, someone can come in with an unconditional and I would be SOL since the unconditional trumps all deals via PM.

 

 

I've been criticized for this -

 

" IN the Thread Trumps ANY and ALL PM negotiations "

 

But it really is the fairest way.

 

As a seller if we agree in a PM, and you want to keep it private, I will try my best to mark it for you in the thread. But you run the risk of losing it to someone who posts in the meantime.

 

As a buyer, I know I run the risk of losing the book by keeping things private.

 

 

 

I can see why you'd get criticized for it. Posting " IN the Thread Trumps ANY and ALL PM negotiations " doesn't cover done deals by PM, only ongoing negotiations.

 

Someone agrees to a deal with you. Both sides accept. Everyone believes there's a deal. Then there isn't. Most people would expect a done deal...with both parties accepting the deal as something beyond "negotiations". Negotiations are over at that point, all that's left is the contract.

 

It allows for a loop hole of you and a buyer agreeing and then, perhaps there's an unavoidable delay in posting the book sold...maybe for a day or two, and then someone takes it for full price in the thread. Perhaps even after you've been paid.

 

So, yes, I can see the criticism to which you'd be opening up yourself.

 

But the deal isn't "DONE" (In my threads) until it's marked publically in the thread. And that's explained to anyone who has asked for a private deal.

 

The only delay that I've run into is using my phone at work. I drive a hi-lo, so if I'm in the middle of something, there may be a short delay. Other than that, I immediately post in the thread.

 

Maybe I should change it to - IN the Thread Trumps ANY and ALL PM's

 

 

That would be clearer, if you made that change.

 

Right now, as you word it, you're just asking for trouble.

[wombat]

I can't ever imagine asking a seller to show me proof that a deal was done in a PM. I lost out. It happens.

[Transplant]

 

Maybe I should change it to - IN the Thread Trumps ANY and ALL PM's

 

Maybe you should at least be consistent. I just now searched and you do both "all PMs" and "all PM negotiations". But it's your sales thread and your idiotic policy to begin with. It's what caused a kerfuffle when we worked out a deal via PM before someone posted a in the thread and you refused to honor the deal. Not that I have to worry about it as I'll never do business with you again nor will, according to PMs I've gotten, several other people on here. But stick with whatever works out best for you.

[jimjum12]

Based on what I've been told by multiple sellers, if a deal is reached via PM, I have been asked to make the sale official by posting the within the thread. Until I do so, someone can come in with an unconditional and I would be SOL since the unconditional trumps all deals via PM.

 

 

I've been criticized for this -

 

" IN the Thread Trumps ANY and ALL PM negotiations "

 

But it really is the fairest way.

 

As a seller if we agree in a PM, and you want to keep it private, I will try my best to mark it for you in the thread. But you run the risk of losing it to someone who posts in the meantime.

 

As a buyer, I know I run the risk of losing the book by keeping things private.

 

Dan, this is only "fair" if you don't respect someone's desire for privacy. If the terms are spelled out in the listing that PM's are honored, then there is nothing unfair at all. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

..... they're really just comics.... it's not like we're jockeying for a spot on the waiting list for a kidney.

 

 

I think it was this seller editing his post containing the terms of sale and allowing to PM sale to take precedence based on time AFTER the PM sale was posted that was the cause of issues.

 

.... I missed that part. I must've been in the smoking lounge when that part happened. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[PovertyRow]

First, I think folks here know me (and sometimes get ticked at me) for trying to be as fair and objective as possible in sales issues. But it IS odd. (see below)

Anyway, I looked at the sellers sales threads. There are 10 in all. He started with the caveat that between PM and , the earliest time stamp wins. This has been consistent for the first six sales threads.

The next three only have a trumps all disclaimer.

 

This last one (the one in question) has re-added the earliest time stamp wins, allowing back PM negotiations as a candidate for a win.

 

The first post WAS edited the morning after. The only weird thing is in this post, for the first time, the emoticon was not used in the disclaimer. It just said "first person to agree to a deal via PM or in thread wins the item. TBD by time stamp."

 

A list of his created threads (it is short) is here:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=28470

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

Maybe I should change it to - IN the Thread Trumps ANY and ALL PM's

 

Maybe you should at least be consistent. I just now searched and you do both "all PMs" and "all PM negotiations". But it's your sales thread and your idiotic policy to begin with. It's what caused a kerfuffle when we worked out a deal via PM before someone posted a in the thread and you refused to honor the deal. Not that I have to worry about it as I'll never do business with you again nor will, according to PMs I've gotten, several other people on here. But stick with whatever works out best for you.

 

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[Aasparky1000]

Question please how long does someone have to pay before I can report them? Thx

[DavidTheDavid]

Question please how long does someone have to pay before I can report them? Thx

 

30 days.

[Spider-Dan]

 

Maybe I should change it to - IN the Thread Trumps ANY and ALL PM's

 

Maybe you should at least be consistent. I just now searched and you do both "all PMs" and "all PM negotiations". But it's your sales thread and your idiotic policy to begin with. It's what caused a kerfuffle when we worked out a deal via PM before someone posted a in the thread and you refused to honor the deal. Not that I have to worry about it as I'll never do business with you again nor will, according to PMs I've gotten, several other people on here. But stick with whatever works out best for you.

 

Still??

 

Oh no - You and your "PM buddies" won't buy from me

[skypinkblu]

 

..... they're really just comics.... it's not like we're jockeying for a spot on the waiting list for a kidney.

 

More people need this perspective. It's only comic books.

 

+1

 

+ a whole bunch

[Transplant]

 

Maybe I should change it to - IN the Thread Trumps ANY and ALL PM's

 

Maybe you should at least be consistent. I just now searched and you do both "all PMs" and "all PM negotiations". But it's your sales thread and your idiotic policy to begin with. It's what caused a kerfuffle when we worked out a deal via PM before someone posted a in the thread and you refused to honor the deal. Not that I have to worry about it as I'll never do business with you again nor will, according to PMs I've gotten, several other people on here. But stick with whatever works out best for you.

 

via Imgflip Meme Maker

 

Nah, just don't want folks to forget that he's used this "policy" to his advantage in the past: Not honoring a done deal via PMs, in favor of taking a higher price.

[revat]

 

..... they're really just comics.... it's not like we're jockeying for a spot on the waiting list for a kidney.

 

More people need this perspective. It's only comic books.

 

+1

 

+ a whole bunch

 

while that is certainly true. Comics for a lot of people here are not JUST comics, they are a primary source of income. The comic business allows them to feed their kids, live in their homes, support their family.

 

THere's certainly an argument made for 'just a comic', but sometimes there's also an argument that "one party cannot abide by the terms of the rules that they themselves set, and as a result, my bottom line and my livelihood is directly impacted." It's not ideal, but sometimes that's the difference between making rent this month, or getting your kid a birthday present, or eating things other than instant noodles this week. Of course its not always this serious. But because SOMETIMES it is this serious (see all the charity threads on the boards), we should treat the boards, the rules, and potential customers and sellers with respect.

 

Rules are rules, contracts are contracts, and we have them for little inconsequential comics and for big ones, and they should be followed the same or we shouldn't follow them at all. ESPECIALLY since you basically get to set you're own rules.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

11:02PM posted in thread by JMarch51

11:06PM per PM Posted by AnkurJ

 

 

I think giving the benefit of the doubt is reasonable here, isn't it possible that the PM discussion included an immediate payment within those four minutes? Unless the seller has two browser windows open and is constantly refreshing both during a pm discussion, then it could be very likely that the first was just simply not seen until the pm discussion was concluded. And if it was a sale via PM, then the seller probably sold it for less than the BIN price anyway. Just my

 

.... and even this is not always the case. I allow via PM because some buyers just don't want the world to know what they buy. Often I get full ask in a PM agreement. Requiring a screen shot to prove the time stamp would defeat the purpose in those cases. With all the that some boardies give to those who buy for resale, I can understand the wish for privacy. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Nice new sig.

 

And one of the better new ones, I might add.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Look, folks, because of the system that we have, anyone can edit things after the fact, and unless someone copied the "rules" and is, themselves, above reproach, then the only real answer is to let the seller sell to whomever they decide to sell to, for whatever reason they decide to sell.

 

Are there questionable sellers who will take advantage of that, like agreeing to a deal in a PM, and then because an unqualified comes in a thread, for a higher price, they go with that instead, and try to claim their "rules" allowed this?

 

Yes.

 

Normally, I am one for the rules, but on this board, there's no way to enforce rules if they can be changed before anyone is really paying attention...and they can be.

 

It's scuzzy, but the only real solution is this: "I reserve the right to do business with whomever I wish, for whatever reason I wish, up to and including price. If you don't like that, you are free to shop elsewhere."

 

All anyone can really do is hope that A. a seller will honor his/her word, and B. if they don't, they will be outed. If someone cuts a deal out from under you, be sure to let everyone know, and then don't look back (that doesn't mean you can't mention it, I mean don't ever consider doing business with that person again.)

 

Because the reality is, if someone won't honor a deal they've struck, why would you want to do business with them at ALL? Comics aren't drugs; we shouldn't act as if they are. Yes, I know how addictive they can be, and I know how "that one book you realllly want" might be worth dealing with a dishonorable person, but this hobby will NEVER see a decrease in dishonorable people until and if people consider honor more important than "cool books."

 

Fair?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Maybe I should change it to - IN the Thread Trumps ANY and ALL PM's

 

Maybe you should at least be consistent. I just now searched and you do both "all PMs" and "all PM negotiations". But it's your sales thread and your idiotic policy to begin with. It's what caused a kerfuffle when we worked out a deal via PM before someone posted a in the thread and you refused to honor the deal. Not that I have to worry about it as I'll never do business with you again nor will, according to PMs I've gotten, several other people on here. But stick with whatever works out best for you.

 

Still??

 

Oh no - You and your "PM buddies" won't buy from me

 

You know, if you showed a little remorse and understanding, even if you don't agree with Tranny's position, it might go better for you.

 

Instead of mockery, why not "You know, I'm sorry that deal didn't work out better. I may not agree with your position, but I know it didn't sit well with you, and I'm genuinely sorry about that. I'll try to do better with others going forward."...?

 

 

That way, if Tranny still brings it up, he, and not you, would end up looking like a tool, and Tranny's ok with looking like a tool.

 

[skypinkblu]

 

..... they're really just comics.... it's not like we're jockeying for a spot on the waiting list for a kidney.

 

More people need this perspective. It's only comic books.

 

+1

 

+ a whole bunch

 

while that is certainly true. Comics for a lot of people here are not JUST comics, they are a primary source of income. The comic business allows them to feed their kids, live in their homes, support their family.

 

THere's certainly an argument made for 'just a comic', but sometimes there's also an argument that "one party cannot abide by the terms of the rules that they themselves set, and as a result, my bottom line and my livelihood is directly impacted." It's not ideal, but sometimes that's the difference between making rent this month, or getting your kid a birthday present, or eating things other than instant noodles this week. Of course its not always this serious. But because SOMETIMES it is this serious (see all the charity threads on the boards), we should treat the boards, the rules, and potential customers and sellers with respect.

 

Rules are rules, contracts are contracts, and we have them for little inconsequential comics and for big ones, and they should be followed the same or we shouldn't follow them at all. ESPECIALLY since you basically get to set you're own rules.

 

I do respect that some people make their living that way, I also respect how important a book can be to a collector. I had blisters from walking around several cons looking for a book to fill in one of my runs....I didn't make my living that way, but I sure wanted the book

 

I've often gotten multiple pms and I worry sometimes that someone will be disappointed, so after many tweaks, I just say that the first (sign or I do accept it written out) gets the book, in a pm or on a thread.

 

However...nothing is ever going to be perfect here..and they are not kidneys. Although some people seem to view them as such (kid's birthday presents aside.)

 

In this case, even if he amended his rules, it appears he didn't amend them to benefit himself...I have to say "appears" because I didn't ask him.

Edited April 29, 2015 by skypinkblu