General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[drbanner]

I do not agree with using GPA to price raw books.

No problem, if you don't agree with it don't pay GPA prices for raw books, and don't ask GPA prices for raw books.

 

However, by discounting GPA data you're really not using everything available to you to determine what the fair market value of a book is. Scans, OS price guide, GPA, Comiclink (not reflected in GPA data), Heritage (price data reflected in GPA, but more importantly you can actually see humongous scans of the book to look at color strike, centering, specific defect, etc.,.), and these boards all provide information that one should look at when determining how much they feel comfortable buying/selling books for.

 

OS doesn't even list prices for NM books, and in the case of 20-cent Spideys, I would buy NM copies all day long at full OS guide (and I'm referring to my NM, not necessarily CGC's NM). So, in the end OS is irrelevant for pricing scarce or HG boooks (they don't even list prices for some books), which leaves you with what? GPA, that's what. (thumbs u

[joe_collector]

Providing the buyer has enough details to make an informed decision and wants the book badly enough, it doesn't really matter where the price comes from does it?

 

I'll remember this statement when I'm selling raw books, and quoting CGC prices from Comics Price Guide - http://www.comicspriceguide.com/.

 

[joe_collector]

No problem, if you don't agree with it don't pay GPA prices for raw books, and don't ask GPA prices for raw books.

 

Again, an almost total inability to grasp what we're talking about.

 

I'll make it really clear:

 

1) Raw ASM 122 VF - asking $150

 

2) Raw ASM 122 VF - asking $150 - GPA Average at $155, high price set last month at $199!!!

 

Do you really not see the difference?

[goldust40]

But GPA prices are strictly for slabbed books, and takes into account the guaranteed grade, the cost of getting the book slabbed and the month(s)-long wait to get the book back. That's what the buyer is paying for.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

One can use GPA to figure out the POTENTIAL value of a raw book if one is aware of 1) CGC's grading standards and 2) the seller's. Yes, there are all the ancillary costs, which have to be factored in. That goes without saying. The fact remains that I have used GPA in tandem with Overstreet on raw books over the last several years. I have spent a considerable amount of money on raw books using GPA and it has not let me down in that it reports ACTUAL SALES. So GPA is about slabbed books. So? It's all about reading between the lines and knowing the market.

 

And as for sellers using GPA stats when selling raw books, as long as they grade accurately, I see no problem. The buyer is making an informed choice and is not being hoodwinked. And if this is all about your attempt to protect the novice buyer from being misled, please.

[drbanner]

1) Raw ASM 122 VF - asking $150

 

2) Raw ASM 122 VF - asking $150 - GPA Average at $155, high price set last month at $199!!![/b]

 

Do you really not see the difference?

Yeah, I see the difference and it's huge - 2) gives me much more information on which to base my decision to pull the trigger or not and makes me an informed buyer. Thanks for helping me make the point we're all trying to get across here with a perfectly succinct example! (thumbs u

[awe4one]

I did not say that Podboy quoted GPA, but his raw books sold at or near GPA prices. I know because I bought one and almost two. So GPA in this case is a valid GUIDE for selling raw books. In his case 1.5 X guide for low/mid grade Timelys was a good price. You would never know this reading OSPG.

 

No...it only reflects the price you were willing to pay was near what a slabbed copy has gone for. Didn't validate GPA whatsoever...

 

Jim

[Mac Man]

It doesn't have to be either GPA for CGC or not at all; using it as a barometer for raw isn't as invalid as you're making it seem.

 

I look at it like this as well. I think both OSPG and GPA valuable contributions to make towards pricing raw books, but care needs to be taken when doing so. We've all discussed ad nausem how OSPG does not accurately reflect the market in many instances, but it still works as a guide providing users with a nice ball park idea. On the flipside, I do agree with JC in that making an across the board comparison of a GPA figure to a raw book of the same grade isn't 100% accurate in a similar way how many of us would LOVE to pay guide for a raw AF 15 in 2.0 (currently going for about $1,018 less than their slabbed counterparts on GPA... not that I've been looking ). So, while it IS problematic to directly equate a GPA price to a raw comic, I personally believe you can still use it as a guide to provide you with a ballpark idea much in the same way we use OSPG.

 

Boiled down, it's useful when taken with a grain (or two) of salt.

[joe_collector]

It's a no-win on here, as the people jumping up in support of the new GPA as Raw hype machine are also sellers who use this tactic in their forum threads.

 

I somehow doubt we'll be able to convert these guys to our side.

[VintageComics]

I think some of you guys are treating a CGC 9.4 as a differrent animal than a properly graded raw 9.4. They are not. They will both fetch VERY similar $$.

 

Remember we are not dealing with 7.0 bronze books here. We are talking about a spectrum of the market that most collectors avoid. Rare, hi grade etc.

 

Spend some time asking prices and grades on raw hi grade big books books from guys like Harley Yee next time he's in town. You will quickly find a direct correlation between their raw prices and GPA prices.

 

GPA prices may only record CGC sales but that is because CGC is a trusted grading authority. If there were another trusted grading company that came along I'd bet GPA would start recording those sales too. Then what would you say?

 

GPA has likely just chosen to track CGC sales probably because few people will dispute the CGC grade so there is less ambiguity. That does not mean that GPA is only relevant on CGC books. The fact is that there are many people who grade well, and some even more strict than CGC and those people can, do cite GPA values and get top (ie. GPA ) doller for their books.

 

 

R.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[awe4one]

1) Raw ASM 122 VF - asking $150

 

2) Raw ASM 122 VF - asking $150 - GPA Average at $155, high price set last month at $199!!![/b]

 

Do you really not see the difference?

Yeah, I see the difference and it's huge - 2) gives me much more information on which to base my decision to pull the trigger or not and makes me an informed buyer. Thanks for helping me make the point we're all trying to get across here with a perfectly succinct example! (thumbs u

 

That's just crazy Mike. The difference is someone quoting sell prices for something he/she is not selling. It's invalid hype to justify a high selling price pure and simple...

 

Jim

[cd4ever]

I certainly agree that GPA is a valuable tool, one of many, to be used when buying or selling raw and graded books.

 

My point was simply that I get that 'not so fresh feeling' if I see a bunch of NM raw books being sold and the seller is grabbing the prices right of of the GPA CGC 9.4 website, without adjustment.

 

And if I see it, I do move on, usually quietly. Which is my right just as much as its the sellers right to do what he's doing.

 

 

 

[awe4one]

The fact is that there are many people who grade well, and some even more strict than CGC and those people can, do cite GPA values and get top (ie. GPA ) doller for their books.

 

I don't know...I can think of a couple sellers here with impeccable grading rep who have never used the tactic...nor do I think they will...

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

I think some of you guys are treating a CGC 9.4 as a differrent animal than a properly graded raw 9.4. They are not. They will both fetch VERY similar $$.

 

Across the board, I dispute that statement.

 

You bring up some rare GA books as hitting GPA levels, while discounting the vast majority of HG sales that do not. I buy BA all the time, and I'd have to be on a serious drug binge to even contemplate *always* paying the same raw NM to NM/M price as GPA, and even more so if the dealer was actively promoting GPA pricing at his booth.

[drbanner]

I certainly agree that GPA is a valuable tool, one of many, to be used when buying or selling raw and graded books.

 

My point was simply that I get that 'not so fresh feeling' if I see a bunch of NM raw books being sold and the seller is grabbing the prices right of of the GPA CGC 9.4 website, without adjustment.

 

And if I see it, I do move on, usually quietly. Which is my right just as much as its the sellers right to do what he's doing.

(thumbs u

[Annihilus]

Providing the buyer has enough details to make an informed decision and wants the book badly enough, it doesn't really matter where the price comes from does it?

 

I'll remember this statement when I'm selling raw books, and quoting CGC prices from Comics Price Guide - http://www.comicspriceguide.com/.

 

 

Exactly.

 

It's got nothing to do with where the price comes from....it's got to do with the person buying the book and what they're willing to pay for it. It's the seller's responsibility to provide:

 

1. Accurate description of the book

2. The price he wants to sell it for

 

You can get the price from wherever you want....if someone is willing to pay for it, that's not the sellers fault. Different buyers will use different criteria for what they are willing to pay. Some are comfortable with using GPA for raw, some aren't.

 

It's really got not much at all to do with where the seller is getting his/her selling price from, IMO. If the price is too high, the book won't sell.

[joe_collector]

Once again, we're not talking about what price the seller is asking, but the tactic (quoting GPA price alongside) he or she is using to PROMOTE their raw book sales.

 

It's not a difficult concept to grasp, but it seems to be eluding many people on here.

[thirdgreenham]

what mean eluding

[VintageComics]

I think some of you guys are treating a CGC 9.4 as a differrent animal than a properly graded raw 9.4. They are not. They will both fetch VERY similar $$.

 

Across the board, I dispute that statement.

 

You bring up some rare GA books as hitting GPA levels, while discounting the vast majority of HG sales that do not. I buy BA all the time, and I'd have to be on a serious drug binge to even contemplate *always* paying the same raw NM to NM/M price as GPA, and even more so if the dealer was actively promoting GPA pricing at his booth.

 

I guess the difference here is that we are talking about what SHOULD be the norm on the forum as opposed to what happens in the real world. I see where youare coming from 100%. Again, if you no like, just walk on by....

 

R.

 

 

[VintageComics]

The fact is that there are many people who grade well, and some even more strict than CGC and those people can, do cite GPA values and get top (ie. GPA ) doller for their books.

 

I don't know...I can think of a couple sellers here with impeccable grading rep who have never used the tactic...nor do I think they will...

 

Jim

 

Hey that's cool. I have no problem with either way. The bottom line is that the books either do or do not sell. That is the final verdict. Everything else is just info/smoke and mirrors etc.

 

For the record If I'm selling something like an ASM #101 in 9.4 and 9.6 or an ASM #16 in 9.2 or a Batman #232 in 9.4 I am going to quote GPA prices, take slabbing and shipping fees into account and then come up with a fair sale price.

In the end every book was sold below slightly below GPA so the buyer got a deal and some books graded better than stated.

I don't see anything wrong with that. Had I sold them at OSPG i would have been selling the books for less than I had paid for them as I paid well over guide for all the books.

 

No offense taken either way guys. I think GPA is great!

 

R.

 

 

[divad]

I certainly agree that GPA is a valuable tool, one of many, to be used when buying or selling raw and graded books.

 

My point was simply that I get that 'not so fresh feeling' if I see a bunch of NM raw books being sold and the seller is grabbing the prices right of of the GPA CGC 9.4 website, without adjustment.

 

And if I see it, I do move on, usually quietly. Which is my right just as much as its the sellers right to do what he's doing.

 

 

 

Indubitably.