Marvel Decides Who The Real Fans Are At C2E2 – No Window Bags For Comics Signatures! 5 5

[1Cool]

3 minutes ago, IntoAnother said:

Yup, I was with Lauren and heard it all. It was said in a rather annoyed tone and it was indeed someone from the Marvel booth. 

I do not know if he was going rogue, if Jason asked that to be announced, or if it came from the top down though. That is in no way an excuse for the rule, I just wanted to make that clear. 

In my opinion several people need to wake up to the fact that TRUE FANS also collect CGC graded comics. I buy, sell, and collect books, just as many of us do.

To say we are not fans is absurd. 

But haven't most artists been saying this for years?  By having a sign up that says $5 for a sig and $20 in front of a CGC rep they are saying CGC fans are all flippers who are not real fans who don't deserve cheap signatures.

[F For Fake]

I don't do SS, but I do occasionally get a book signed for my own personal collection. (I don't do SS because to me an autograph is a memento of my meeting someone whose work I admire. Since I got it signed, I know that it's legit, and I'm not selling it, so there's no reason to convince anyone else that it's legit.)  At any rate, when I do get a book signed, I do the window and tape deal, because I'm a little OCD (aren't we all?) and want to keep the books in nice shape, as creators can be a little rough with them sometime. I'm not going to grade or sell the book, I just want to keep it nice? Brian Azzarello made fun of my taped up books, but even that won't sway me! (Though I admit that I cried for a little while.) (Ok, not really.) (Maybe.)

[Ryan.]

I like my signed books in a yellow label slab.

[IntoAnother]

3 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

But haven't most artists been saying this for years?  By having a sign up that says $5 for a sig and $20 in front of a CGC rep they are saying CGC fans are all flippers who are not real fans who don't deserve cheap signatures.

It is extremely rare to see a sign. I feel if you are going to charge for a signature, then charge for a signature. If a book is staying raw or going to be graded makes zero difference in my opinion because fans also collect slabs. 

The signing was limited to five books per person. So it's not as if it was a free for all for signatures. The limit was a very reasonable request, and I'd even be okay with less. Yet no window bags or books that are to be graded is insulting. They have no issue pumping out 1:1000's that are sold for $1000+ upfront from retailers they supply but a fan can't slab a book? Give me a break.

 

 

[Turtle]

28 minutes ago, Ryan. said:

I like my signed books in a yellow label slab.

Get out of line and make room for the real fans!

[Turtle]

22 minutes ago, IntoAnother said:

It is extremely rare to see a sign. I feel if you are going to charge for a signature, then charge for a signature. If a book is staying raw or going to be graded makes zero difference in my opinion because fans also collect slabs. 

The signing was limited to five books per person. So it's not as if it was a free for all for signatures. The limit was a very reasonable request, and I'd even be okay with less. Yet no window bags or books that are to be graded is insulting. They have no issue pumping out 1:1000's that are sold for $1000+ upfront from retailers they supply but a fan can't slab a book? Give me a break.

 

 

That sign is more common than you may think.  In the last few years, there has been a shift to seeing this sign more and more.  $X for a signature, $X+$20 if being graded (for example). 

The reasoning I've heard is creators, right or wrong, see Signature Series books on ebay selling for $20-$2,000 every single day.  Some creators think that if Joe Flipper is going to make some money, I'd better make some money as well.  Often times, however, the creator ignores things such as rarity/value of the book, condition of the book, or grading fees and sometimes just think it's their signature alone that turns that $10 book into a $100 book (again, for example).  Of course, that debate is for another thread.  In fact, I believe it's happened at length at least once. 

[IntoAnother]

Just now, Turtle said:

That sign is more common than you may think.  In the last few years, there has been a shift to seeing this sign more and more.  $X for a signature, $X+$20 if being graded (for example). 

The reasoning I've heard is creators, right or wrong, see Signature Series books on ebay selling for $20-$2,000 every single day.  Some creators think that if Joe Flipper is going to make some money, I'd better make some money as well.  Often times, however, the creator ignores things such as rarity/value of the book, condition of the book, or grading fees and sometimes just think it's their signature alone that turns that $10 book into a $100 book (again, for example).  Of course, that debate is for another thread.  In fact, I believe it's happened at length at least once. 

I attend several cons a year and get books signed at every one of them. I always look for the sign, and know it's not that common.

I understand why they may think the request is fair, but it is not as black and white as they make it out to be. It's insulting to fans. Raw books are also flipped in eBay. They don't bring in the premium graded books do but that is also the case for unsigned copies. Yet they are flipped. 

[Turtle]

Todd McFarlane used to limit signatures and ended up seeing a lot of people spreading their books among friends who had no interest in getting books signed in order to get all the books signed.  To reduce this, he approached CGC and stated that he no longer wanted his signature submitted for SS during public appearances.  Instead, he works with CGC to have 1 or 2 private signings a year where he'll take on as many SS submissions as people will send.  I haven't stood in a McFarlane line in many years, so someone may want to chime in to say if the lines move faster now or not.

Either way, this seems like a win/win.  He still provides an avenue to get books SS'd if fans so desire and fans have the opportunity to get books signed in person.  Since Todd seemed to come up with this solution on his own, I think it was a pretty decent idea, though realistically works in large part because he's such a big draw for fans.

This method would be a better way for Marvel to handle things if it's the route they want to go.  Insulting fans certainly isn't advisable.

[Turtle]

15 minutes ago, IntoAnother said:

I attend several cons a year and get books signed at every one of them. I always look for the sign, and know it's not that common.

I understand why they may think the request is fair, but it is not as black and white as they make it out to be. It's insulting to fans. Raw books are also flipped in eBay. They don't bring in the premium graded books do but that is also the case for unsigned copies. Yet they are flipped. 

Maybe the disagreement is simply the definition of "not that common"? 

For example, Larry Lieber is making an appearance at the East Coast Comic Con this weekend.  If you'd like an item signed by him, it's $10.  If you'd like it graded, change that to $40 + grading fees. 

Not long ago, Alex Saviuk had a sign at his table that included his commission prices for head shot, bust, etc.  At the bottom was something along the lines of "Submitted for grading: $20"

Whilce Portacio had something similar the last time I saw him as well.

The list is pretty extensive.  There are slight variations, but they are all saying the same thing. 

 

But I do agree with you, a blanket statement like the one made at the show is insulting to the fans.

[IntoAnother]

I'm with you Turtle. Personally I like things to be black and white, especially when money is involved. If you charge, then charge. Yet discriminating against fans who collect slabs is not okay. 

That's likely a discussion that also need to take place but for now I'm going to step back as I'd like this to stay focused on the topic at hand of the announcemt that came from someone from Marvel. 

[1Cool]

1 hour ago, IntoAnother said:

I attend several cons a year and get books signed at every one of them. I always look for the sign, and know it's not that common.

I understand why they may think the request is fair, but it is not as black and white as they make it out to be. It's insulting to fans. Raw books are also flipped in eBay. They don't bring in the premium graded books do but that is also the case for unsigned copies. Yet they are flipped. 

Almost every big artist I have gotten a sig from over the years (Zeck, Steranko, etc) all have charged more if a CGC rep is present.  Neal Adams charged the same either way but I think it was $30 so it wasn't cheap.  I think Bernie Wrightson and Mike Grell where a couple that only asked for a donation and didn't care if CGC was there or not.

Edited April 24, 2017 by 1Cool

[Ryan.]

Wrightson charged $5 in Boston last year for books that had a CGC witness. Same with Jae Lee. They didn't have signs posted; they just verbalized it when they saw a CGC rep.

[revat]

sometimes I just want someone to show these artists the math about how much 'more' people are selling the CGC SS for, outside of a few legendary artists, or a few specific books.  its far more the exception than the rule that the average person who is getting 1-5 books signed by a given creator would 'profit' anymore than like $5-10 (on the high end) for the average CGC SS book.  I would be much more in favor of signing limits, with fees for going over that number.  I love a good Zeck, but if I go to a show and get two books CGC SS'd from him, I'm not gonna get rich on those two sigs. 

I actually think CGC as a company should go on a PR kick and talk to some artists about this.  I don't think they would want creators and comic companies to have or spread this false (generally false) perception of their customers.  Honestly, the extra fees for some creators have turned me off to getting the sig or the cgc ss in multiple cases.

Honestly, there's probably maybe 10-20 people or less who make significant $$ from CGC SS (and most of them use private signings and/or are happy to compensate the artist), the rest of the people who occasionally get a sig to sell is mainly to cover the cost of other books they want to keep, and even then, it takes very specific things happening to turn a profit.  It takes volume to turn a real profit, so I'd just impose limits on # of books signed. 

[crassus]

I find it odd that in a culture that generally embraces as positive an open market of free enterprise there would be so many people so upset at the prospect that other people might be making money. "I am going to make money off you, but please do not make money off me".

I can agree that where bad faith manipulation is at play, purchasing under false pretenses, there will be a problem, as nobody anywhere likes to be manipulated or lied to, obviously.

But assuming good faith transactions,  a person's motivation for purchasing something is nobody's business but their own. It is hard for me to imagine any other product sale where what you intend to do with it exactly is a factor in its purchase.

 

[Thwipped]

14 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

... shortly after said announcement, Stan Lee upp'd his rate to 200$

 

... just for the fans!

Oh, he will shill anything. He is the OG hype man. That dude is all about the cash. 

But I FIRMLY believe that he is also about the fans. That dude works 24/7 just to make people like us smile. He may be PT Barnum of our era, but God I love him. 

[crassus]

2 minutes ago, Thwipped said:

Oh, he will shill anything. He is the OG hype man. That dude is all about the cash. 

But I FIRMLY believe that he is also about the fans. That dude works 24/7 just to make people like us smile. He may be PT Barnum of our era, but God I love him. 

My feelings exactly. I don't see any necessary reason to choose the one Stan over the other, he is both, he has always been a spectacular promoter of the medium, and if he is making money than good for him, it doesn't spoil my appreciation for what he has accomplished or for what the books he contributed to making did for my life.

IMO there is no point to trying to distinguish fans from flippers because at any given moment everyone is one or the other or both. I can look at books purely and coldly by grade and by value, and I can also be thrilled to meet an artist, or overcome with emotion as I was when I met Stan Lee, the one and only time I'll likely ever see him, I told everyone afterwards it was one of the best days of my life...my non comic friends just smiled...but my comic collecting friends understood.

I just don't see any reality to talking about "real fans"... it just seems like posturing, ingratiating and itself probably with a profit motive...

[BeachBum]

I know why this happened, and many others do as well. I was given the heads up by a Marvel rep before the show started. It's not Marvel sticking it to the fans. They are tired of some Facilitator's behaviors at Marvel booth signing events. It hit the fan atg last year's SDCC. That's all I will say at this time other than the stunts some are pulling to get books signed by Celebs is out of control.

Edited April 24, 2017 by BeachBum

[chrisco37]

9 minutes ago, BeachBum said:

I know why this happened, and many others do as well. I was given the heads up by a Marvel rep before the show started. It's not Marvel sticking it to the fans. They are tired of some Facilitator's behaviors at Marvel booth signing events. It hit the fan atg last year's SDCC. That's all I will say at this time other than the stunts some are pulling to get books signed by Celebs is out of control.

Is Desert Wind involved?   

[BeachBum]

2 minutes ago, chrisco37 said:

Is Desert Wind involved?   

No, not on this one.

[chrisco37]

30 minutes ago, BeachBum said:

33 minutes ago, chrisco37 said:

Is Desert Wind involved?   

No, not on this one.

Wow!  I'd say that's the most surprising thing in this whole debacle.