mackenzie999 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) I believe digital media has caused a fundamental shift in the way people, particularly younger people, view consumption and collection. I think the availability and convenience of digital media trumps the fact that we old timers get a boner from the smell of old paper. My son, for example, is a huge consumer of popular culture and has access to pretty much any kind of cultural experience he wants. It would never occur to him to attach anything beyond face value to any of the things he consumes. When he is older I suspect nostalgia, if it hits him, will be more for experience than objects. I think the bonanza of comics-based film and video we are currently enjoying will eventually fade as all trends do, although I think this trend has longer legs than most. Collectors take comfort in the longevity of Superman and Batman, but ignore the lessons of Tarzan and Flash Gordon. As boomers age, the market will be flooded by collection dumps and the collecting population will die off. Young people may intrigued by the character of Spiderman, but will they seek out musty old paper with art/stories that haven't necessarily aged well in terms of modern storytelling sensibilities, or will they put on their goggles (or whatever new tech arrives) for a virtual swing around the towers of NYC? I've read most of this thread and some have put forth reasonable positive scenarios for comics future, but I feel these scenarios are more hopeful optimism than realistic possibility. I love my comics and have no desire to part with them, but I hate thinking that by the time I pass these along the market for them will have all but disappeared. My collection is relatively modest, probably around $10K today, and although I do expect it to creep up some over the next few years, I hate the idea of watching the value die a slow death over time. I love them too much to get rid of them, but it will be really disheartening to watch the value ebb away over the years. Edited July 7, 2017 by Mackenzie999 Mighty Hal and delekkerste 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComicConnoisseur Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 18 hours ago, Mackenzie999 said: I think the bonanza of comics-based film and video we are currently enjoying will eventually fade as all trends do, although I think this trend has longer legs than most. Collectors take comfort in the longevity of Superman and Batman, but ignore the lessons of Tarzan and Flash Gordon. As boomers age, the market will be flooded by collection dumps and the collecting population will die off. Young people may intrigued by the character of Spiderman A few of the secrets to longevity to Superman,Batman and Spider-Man compared to Flash Gordon and Tarzan is Superman,Batman and Spider-Man were kept updated these last 50-70 years in modern ongoing DC and Marvel Universes,while Tarzan and Flash Gordon faded because they didn't keep their universes updated. Also Superman,Batman and Spider-Man adventures take place in modern cities which the modern reader can identify with much more than jungles and Planet Mongo like Tarzan and Flash Gordon. There is no way ever in the next 50-70 years that Superman,Batman and Spider-Man lose popularity like Tarzan and Flash Gordon did,especially with Disney and Warner Brothers marketing them. Senormac 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackenzie999 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 3 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said: There is no way ever in the next 50-70 years that Superman,Batman and Spider-Man lose popularity like Tarzan and Flash Gordon did,especially with Disney and Warner Brothers marketing them. I agree these characters will live on, but the media they exist in will also evolve. I think for people who did not grow up in eras of comic book ubiquity, people who grow up with access to pretty much the entire world of popular culture in their pockets, the idea of collecting paper versions of their favorite holodeck characters willseem pointless. Those people will surely be out there, and items like Action 1 will remain priceless antiques, but actual collectors of paper comics will dwindle significantly. This process has already begun. Look at what is ostensibly comic fandom's largest gathering, Comicon, and tell me, are paper comics still the main attraction there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComicConnoisseur Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 19 hours ago, Mackenzie999 said: people who grow up with access to pretty much the entire world of popular culture in their pockets I think it is amazing that we can just about watch any movie,listen to any song or read any comic book or book with just a click. I know I have been exposed to many more different genres than I ever had thanks to this technology. I see it as a positive that will continue to expand comic book readership. HighRadArt and Ken Aldred 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exitmusicblue Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 20 hours ago, Mackenzie999 said: I agree these characters will live on, but the media they exist in will also evolve. I think for people who did not grow up in eras of comic book ubiquity, people who grow up with access to pretty much the entire world of popular culture in their pockets, the idea of collecting paper versions of their favorite holodeck characters willseem pointless. Those people will surely be out there, and items like Action 1 will remain priceless antiques, but actual collectors of paper comics will dwindle significantly. This process has already begun. Look at what is ostensibly comic fandom's largest gathering, Comicon, and tell me, are paper comics still the main attraction there? The modern baseball card hobby is booming among kids. I would argue that being surrounded by all things digital day in, day out induces a hunger for what is physical and "real" despite the best efforts of our techie overlords. Comics will be just fine. oakman29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackenzie999 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 I remain unconvinced but I really hope you are right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 On 6/26/2017 at 9:48 AM, Quicksilver Signs said: I don't think there is one title printed today that would not have been cancelled in the 70's. Print runs of 100k is considered high today. In the 1950's there were more comics printed in one week than all year now. Yes, but how many monthly titles were there then compared to now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackenzie999 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Also, adjusting for inflation, comics are 4.5 x more expensive than they were in 1955 ComicConnoisseur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeNemesis Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 On 7/7/2017 at 5:45 PM, Mackenzie999 said: I believe digital media has caused a fundamental shift in the way people, particularly younger people, view consumption and collection. I think the availability and convenience of digital media trumps the fact that we old timers get a boner from the smell of old paper. My son, for example, is a huge consumer of popular culture and has access to pretty much any kind of cultural experience he wants. It would never occur to him to attach anything beyond face value to any of the things he consumes. When he is older I suspect nostalgia, if it hits him, will be more for experience than objects. I think the bonanza of comics-based film and video we are currently enjoying will eventually fade as all trends do, although I think this trend has longer legs than most. Collectors take comfort in the longevity of Superman and Batman, but ignore the lessons of Tarzan and Flash Gordon. As boomers age, the market will be flooded by collection dumps and the collecting population will die off. Young people may intrigued by the character of Spiderman, but will they seek out musty old paper with art/stories that haven't necessarily aged well in terms of modern storytelling sensibilities, or will they put on their goggles (or whatever new tech arrives) for a virtual swing around the towers of NYC? I've read most of this thread and some have put forth reasonable positive scenarios for comics future, but I feel these scenarios are more hopeful optimism than realistic possibility. I love my comics and have no desire to part with them, but I hate thinking that by the time I pass these along the market for them will have all but disappeared. My collection is relatively modest, probably around $10K today, and although I do expect it to creep up some over the next few years, I hate the idea of watching the value die a slow death over time. I love them too much to get rid of them, but it will be really disheartening to watch the value ebb away over the years. really well thought out post. i often wonder how my son (age 3) will look at this hobby and my collection etc. He loves super heroes now because of the movies and he can "see" them in action but i wonder how it will translate when he's able to read. I think people in the hobby now, especially in their 30s and up want their kids to appreciate that smell of the paper etc. because it brought us back to a better time in our lives (being young). This hobby is gut wrenching when you have kids....... mackenzie999 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightsofold Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 On 7/8/2017 at 0:44 PM, Mackenzie999 said: I agree these characters will live on, but the media they exist in will also evolve. I think for people who did not grow up in eras of comic book ubiquity, people who grow up with access to pretty much the entire world of popular culture in their pockets, the idea of collecting paper versions of their favorite holodeck characters willseem pointless. Those people will surely be out there, and items like Action 1 will remain priceless antiques, but actual collectors of paper comics will dwindle significantly. This process has already begun. Look at what is ostensibly comic fandom's largest gathering, Comicon, and tell me, are paper comics still the main attraction there? Regarding comic cons not being about comics, take away ebay and the online marketplace, and we'd all be back at the cons and local comic shops again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackenzie999 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Knightsofold said: Regarding comic cons not being about comics, take away ebay and the online marketplace, and we'd all be back at the cons and local comic shops again. And you think this would push movies, television and games behind comics at the big cons? But ok, I'll play. I can think of one surefire way to accelerate the decline of the hobby even more: make it even harder to find comics by taking away eBay and other online sources. There was an interesting thread a few weeks ago (and possibly still ongoing, I haven't checked lately) about a guy looking for advice on starting up an lcs. The majority advised that it was a bad idea, but those in favor, many with actual lcs experience, all suggested that it was pretty much essential to support the MTG card playing crowd in order to survive. Winter is coming... Edited July 10, 2017 by Mackenzie999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightsofold Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 25 minutes ago, Mackenzie999 said: And you think this would push movies, television and games behind comics at the big cons? But ok, I'll play. I can think of one surefire way to accelerate the decline of the hobby even more: make it even harder to find comics by taking away eBay and other online sources. There was an interesting thread a few weeks ago (and possibly still ongoing, I haven't checked lately) about a guy looking for advice on starting up an lcs. The majority advised that it was a bad idea, but those in favor, many with actual lcs experience, all suggested that it was pretty much essential to support the MTG card playing crowd in order to survive. Winter is coming... I'm just not sure that a decline of comic books sold at conventions means collecting is dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exitmusicblue Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) More folks than ever before are collecting Golden Age books, home to the most obscure of titles. Meanwhile as the world's population continues to increase and superheroes become all the more internationalized, comics remain a luxury for most, but perhaps will be less so. An ever-expanding market with no end in sight. The US is but one front in the big picture. The prophecying alarmism gets old fast, @Mackenzie999... Edited July 10, 2017 by exitmusicblue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackenzie999 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, exitmusicblue said: More folks than ever before are collecting Golden Age books, home to the most obscure of titles. Meanwhile as the world's population continues to increase and superheroes become all the more internationalized, comics remain a luxury for most, but perhaps will be less so. An ever-expanding market with no end in sight. The US is but one front in the big picture. The prophecying alarmism gets old fast, @Mackenzie999... I think the comic book format is what is getting old. Perhaps my take on this is alarmist although I'm not suggesting this will happen overnight, but to think this "ever-expanding market" will choose overpriced printed paper over other forms of media is patently naive. I'm not suggesting heroic and other genres of comics fiction will go away, just that the vectors for their delivery is evolving beyond the comic book format. What is that expression, evolve or die? There are a lot of comic fans in their peak earning years right now, and that will keep the hobby going for some time, but comics are no longer visible in every drugstore, 7-11 or supermarket, they are simply not an integral part of the childhood experience as they once were. Meanwhile tv is going through a golden age and special effects have matured to the point where anything that can be imagined can be put on film. Kids who grew up with all of this plus the internet may see some appeal in the original source material, and there will probably always be some collectors, but the demand will be for the more easily accessible, easily manageable and more environmentally friendly formats of media that they grow up with. I'm sorry if you find my arguments tiresome but this is in fact a discussion board where we discuss things. I've proven nothing, but my points are reasoned and thought out. If you find dissenting opinion to be alarming, perhaps this isn't the place for you. PS I've put a bit of time into these arguments but do not take this as my desire for the outcome I've been predicting. The absolute best conclusion this debate could take would be for me to be completely wrong and I welcome every effort towards that. I will gladly trade being made to look foolish for a firm belief that the collecting of paper comics will outlast me. Edited July 10, 2017 by Mackenzie999 delekkerste and 1Cool 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Aldred Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 I prefer the easy availability and fuss-free nature of digital comics to the frustration of not being able to read or locate a physical copy of a book. When I'm in town and passing a book exchange or comic shop that was around when I first started collecting in the late 70s, early 80s, I feel very relieved that, as a reader, I've moved on from such a monopolistic limitation. As has been said here, you can evolve. ComicConnoisseur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicksilver Signs Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 18 hours ago, ygogolak said: Yes, but how many monthly titles were there then compared to now? I guess my point is they were popular with children where as now they are not. Today, Comic books are a miniscule blip with kids entertainment. The main motivation to collect is nostalgia, there's none with this generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackenzie999 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 19 minutes ago, Quicksilver Signs said: I guess my point is they were popular with children where as now they are not. Today, Comic books are a miniscule blip with kids entertainment. The main motivation to collect is nostalgia, there's none with this generation. Could not agree more. Skip everything I've written here, this post is everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 34 minutes ago, Quicksilver Signs said: I guess my point is they were popular with children where as now they are not. Today, Comic books are a miniscule blip with kids entertainment. The main motivation to collect is nostalgia, there's none with this generation. When was this survey conducted? I will agree that digital media / games is more where the younger generation is comfortable. But honestly video games were becoming very popular at home in the early 90's and we all know that story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exitmusicblue Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 I've seen enough hordes of youths digging into bargain bins at cons to be beyond the "digital generation" generalizations. I'd sooner worry about hobbies such as numismatics and stamps that don't get 1% of comics' mainstream attention. It's fundamental to the identy of the movies and shows these days that they originate from comics. No one is pretending otherwise, Marvel included judging from their omnipresent opening logo that embeds flipping through a history of comics pages. Branding kids as un-nostalgic to me is the usual timeless old people tactic. Many kids become nostalgic (few start out that way) and many like to be hip. The tshirts and lunchboxes you see everywhere trace back to original, "analog" comics -- forevermore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicksilver Signs Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 25 minutes ago, ygogolak said: When was this survey conducted? I will agree that digital media / games is more where the younger generation is comfortable. But honestly video games were becoming very popular at home in the early 90's and we all know that story. No survey, just my opinion. I was a kid in the 70's, comics were everywhere, barber shops, every corner store, schools, pretty much a stack in every kids room. They were given away or thrown out by the millions. It was just a part of childhood, now comics are marketed to adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
