What happened to the Fantastic Four? 1 1

[29dukedog]

35 minutes ago, Mercury Man said:

Bah!  Don't get me started on what they've been doing with Tony Stark.  Superior Doom and RiRi is RiRitarded. 

Uh... shouldn't that be, "RiRiSpecial"?

[kav]

The Kirby FF are all top notch.  Issue 40 until the last kirby issue are some of the best stories and the art is incredible.

[Ken Aldred]

9 hours ago, kimik said:

It is not even close. FF was the first Marvel super-hero book, but definitely not the greatest comic of all time. 

It did say 'World's Greatest Comic Magazine' on the cover.

Marvel wouldn't lie.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Ken Aldred

[Quicksilver Signs]

10 hours ago, shadroch said:

Super Stretchy guy, an invisible girl, a rock monster not quite as strong as a couple dozen heroes and a teenage brat who can flame on.

Its amazing they got as far as they did. In the DC Universe, they'd have been relegated to minor roles in the Legion.

If DC did the FF in the early 60's it would have stalled in Showcase with 1 or 2 appearances. It was more about their interactions, bickering and family aspect than unique powers. It's a testament to Lee and Kirby's greatness 

[jjonahjameson11]

13 hours ago, kimik said:

That is by far the best of the FF. It gets hokey around issue 8 or so. ASM was much better.

Totally agree with you.

[shadroch]

1 hour ago, Quicksilver Signs said:

If DC did the FF in the early 60's it would have stalled in Showcase with 1 or 2 appearances. It was more about their interactions, bickering and family aspect than unique powers. It's a testament to Lee and Kirby's greatness 

Agreed. Without such magic,they would have been a third rate crew.  In today's Disney/ Marvel mess, they are background noise.

[kimik]

20 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Agreed. Without such magic,they would have been a third rate crew.  In today's Disney/ Marvel mess, they are background noise.

They still were a third rate crew by the late 60s. FF was pretty much hit and miss from #6-75, and really dropped after that. The 70s FF was particularly weak. The last decent run in the title was when Byrne dropped by in the early/mid 80s for a bit.

[Ken Aldred]

1 hour ago, Quicksilver Signs said:

If DC did the FF in the early 60's it would have stalled in Showcase with 1 or 2 appearances. It was more about their interactions, bickering and family aspect than unique powers. It's a testament to Lee and Kirby's greatness 

Challengers of the Unknown did struggle at DC in comparison.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Ken Aldred

[Ken Aldred]

15 hours ago, SteppinRazor said:

yeah.  Their aesthetic was the adventure/space movie of the 50s and 60s.  They got away from that and didn't have the individual personality to survive that.  Doom did, though.  I would love to see an FF trilogy along the lines of the original Star Wars, with a Doom Strikes Back second flick.  Just less heoric epic and more MST3K type movie.

Old-school science heroes with fairly generic abilities vs. a new-for-the-time family dynamic, which soon became formulaic in itself.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Ken Aldred

[Ken Aldred]

21 hours ago, grebal said:

For FF most of the storylines/villains tended to draw more from sci-fi and monster, than the usual comicbook fantasy (galactus eating worlds, annihilus/negative zone, watcher), which might not translate as well to film.

It can be done well, as in Guardians of the Galaxy, even though I found some of the Ego scenes in the second film a bit of a sensory overload.  The previous FF films have performed poorly, so doubtful a new one will get a budget high enough to bring more of Kirby's work to the screen at the same level.

It'd be nice, though.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Ken Aldred

[chrisco37]

16 hours ago, Quicksilver Signs said:

39-94 was Lee/Kirby at their best, with big thanks to Joe Sinnott.  For me, Spider-man is still the best but FF is up there in the silver age.

Yep.   That's the sweet spot for me as well.  Sinnott was a great addition to the book.  

[Mercury Man]

There was a time when The Thing was one of Marvel's most popular characters.    

So much so, that he was the lead in Marvel Two-In-One for years.   Look at the Marvel ephemera he was on in the 1970's, ads, posters, t-shirts, pillow cases.   The First Family was doing something right for many years to be that popular.  

Can we draw a comparison between them and Superman?   He isn't what he used to be in Comic-dom either.  He WAS THEEE comic book superhero.  Now, neither of his books even crack the Top 20.   The Flash, Jean Grey and Cable outsold him.   Are they heroes that just don't translate well to a new Generation?

[ComicConnoisseur]

7 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

There was a time when The Thing was one of Marvel's most popular characters.    

So much so, that he was the lead in Marvel Two-In-One for years.   Look at the Marvel ephemera he was on in the 1970's, ads, posters, t-shirts, pillow cases.   The First Family was doing something right for many years to be that popular.  

Can we draw a comparison between them and Superman?   He isn't what he used to be in Comic-dom either.  He WAS THEEE comic book superhero.  Now, neither of his books even crack the Top 20.   The Flash, Jean Grey and Cable outsold him.   Are they heroes that just don't translate well to a new Generation?

I thing the Thing, and Human Torch can still translate well,but I don't know about Sue and Reed translating well,especially Reed as he is kind of like Hank Pym as in boring. Maybe make a grown up Franklin Richards the leader?

The Fantastic Four reminded me of Godzilla movies as when Godzilla was in the movie it was cool,while the human actors were boring.

Same with FF with the Thing and Human Torch parts interesting,while Reed and Sue a snoozefest.

IMHO.

 

[unclezebo]

I wouldn't hold out much hope for any new fantastic 4 stories. Marvel has clamped down pretty hard. In the pc game marvel heroes the fantastic 4 and silver surfer have been in the game for over a year, they just announced because of their license renewal  they will stop selling the fantastic 4 characters  along with the silver surfer and their costumes starting the 1st. To me if they are doing this to content already released, anything new is going to be a wing and a prayer.

[ComicConnoisseur]

On 6/27/2017 at 10:14 PM, unclezebo said:

I wouldn't hold out much hope for any new fantastic 4 stories. Marvel has clamped down pretty hard. In the pc game marvel heroes the fantastic 4 and silver surfer have been in the game for over a year, they just announced because of their license renewal  they will stop selling the fantastic 4 characters  along with the silver surfer and their costumes starting the 1st. To me if they are doing this to content already released, anything new is going to be a wing and a prayer.

Wow I didn't know that. That is taking it too far by Marvel to do that. It sounds very petty by their management. Also to stick it to Silver Surfer fans as well is pretty low.

Disclaimer: Silver Surfer is one of my all-time favorite characters, and this news doesn't sound good for his future.

Edited June 30, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[unclezebo]

Yep, very petty. I guess never get between a mouse and his cheese......

[Bronty]

On 6/27/2017 at 8:16 AM, kimik said:

They still were a third rate crew by the late 60s. FF was pretty much hit and miss from #6-75, and really dropped after that. The 70s FF was particularly weak. The last decent run in the title was when Byrne dropped by in the early/mid 80s for a bit.

Oh man you are trolling so hard!    FF 1-275  is much better overall than spidey 1-275, but the fact is the runs are better and worse at different points in time.    

Spidey 1-40 is better, FF40-100 destroys spidey.    100-200 are a draw, but FF 200-275 is so much better than spidey.    

The thing I don't like about Spidey 40 up is there is so much of a soap opera element.    FF has family squabbles as part of the storyline, but its a sideshow and that's all.  Peripheral.    With spidey its like in the late 60s the book really becomes about Peter Parker's love/career interests.   Blech.    I don't think its a coincidence that they called his second title, Peter Parker TSS, as that's where Marvel's head was at.     The book should have Peter elements, even significant ones but jeez louise I don't want more pages about his girlfriends then about what's happening in what should be the main story.

[kimik]

No trolling, just stating an opinion that most collectors I know will agree with.

I would still go with ASM 40-100 over FF 40-100. The FF had three good arcs dying that time, and they all revolved around Silver Surfer - 48-50, 55-60, and 72-76. After issue 76 the title really tanked. It is kind of funny and or sad at how bad it became.

Outside of maybe the surfer arc in 120-122 (which still is pretty weak) FF 100 to start of Byrne is mostly unreadable drek. It is terrible. During the same period, ASM saw Punisher appear (who is bigger than FF since the mid 80s), the clone storyline (for better and worse), and intro of a major new female partner/foil in the Black Cat.

I would argue that ASM 200-275 is better than FF from same era, including the Byrne run. Spidey was further developed during that time, while FF was trying to rehash the early 60s glory. What major new development or progress happened in the FF? Take out the Byrne run, and it is very bad again. After the Byrne run, it is arguably one of, if not the worst, Marvel titles. I don't know if it is due to the concept or a lack of care/focus by Marvel, but it gets really bad towards the end and through the series of relaunches

[FineCollector]

On 6/26/2017 at 10:57 PM, shadroch said:

Super Stretchy guy, an invisible girl, a rock monster not quite as strong as a couple dozen heroes and a teenage brat who can flame on.

Its amazing they got as far as they did. In the DC Universe, they'd have been relegated to minor roles in the Legion.

At its heart, Fantastic Four is a sci fi adventure title, not a superhero beat 'em up.  Lee and Kirby managed to make everything exotic and otherworldly, even when they stayed on Earth (Atlantis, Attilan, the Subterranean realm, the Kree Sentry's outpost, Wakanda), which is entirely the charm of this title.

[Ken Aldred]

1 hour ago, FineCollector said:

At its heart, Fantastic Four is a sci fi adventure title, not a superhero beat 'em up.  Lee and Kirby managed to make everything exotic and otherworldly, even when they stayed on Earth (Atlantis, Attilan, the Subterranean realm, the Kree Sentry's outpost, Wakanda), which is entirely the charm of this title.

+1

Which probably explains why I preferred the title.  At its peak, anyway.