The most significant Silver Age key between 1965 - 1969 Poll Added - Located at the top of first page 2 2

[bronze johnny]

1 hour ago, thehumantorch said:

 

The winners for each part will face one another in a playoff round. (I hate these new boards!!!)

Edited July 13, 2017 by bronze johnny

[Martin Sinescu]

Would've been better to put 'Tec 359 and FF 52 in the same pool. FF 48 will blow away everything else in the first pool, but, yeah, I voted Batgirl anyway 

[Ant-Man]

Not that Overstreet value is the same as significant, but for the curious:

1. FF 45

2. FF 52

3. ASM 28

4. DD 7

5. ASM 50

5. 'Tec 359

7. FF 48

8. ASM 20

9. Star Trek 1

10. Batman 171

[Callaway29]

15 minutes ago, Ant-Man said:

Not that Overstreet value is the same as significant, but for the curious:

1. FF 45

2. FF 52

3. ASM 28

4. DD 7

5. ASM 50

5. 'Tec 359

7. FF 48

8. ASM 20

9. Star Trek 1

10. Batman 171

Interesting. Does the census really justify/support FF48's lower price compared to the others, considering its importance? I always read how common they are, especially in mid-to-lower grades...

C_

[Martin Sinescu]

I just realized Brave & Bold 60 was 1965, has it been mentioned? That should've gotten some luv 

[FineCollector]

On the second list, I chose Strange Tales 135 over FF 52 for significance.  I'm a fan of Black Panther, but he's easy to miss if you're not reading the right books.  SHIELD is a concept that permeates Marvel.

[Ant-Man]

19 hours ago, Callaway29 said:

Interesting. Does the census really justify/support FF48's lower price compared to the others, considering its importance? I always read how common they are, especially in mid-to-lower grades...

C_

Overstreet lists are based on 9.2 raw pricing, not slab prices or CGC census data. I'm sure someone with a GPA subscription could re-sort for graded books.

Your other comments further my point on value not always being equivalent to significance. There are definitely a lot of FF 48s floating around, which helps to keep the price in check. Popular books like FF 45 & 52 have benefitted recently from TV and movie hype, and ASM 28 has the "Scarce in high grade due to black cover" mystique. There is no way that the first appearance of Molten Man makes a top 100 list of significance, but there sits its guide value for other reasons.

[rjpb]

Unsurprisingly there is a superhero centric notion of what the most significant book from the era is, and little surprise it's a Marvel as well, but Zap #1 is clearly the most significant in terms of the medium itself. It kicked off the underground comics movement as an identifiable genre, which had prior manifested itself in one-shot publications, tabloids, or the pages of humor magazines. This lead to mainstream comics creators slowly adopting the more "adult" themes into their own work, first in the form of "ground level" books, then "independent" publications, and finally for the large companies themselves. Crumb's cover design also harkened back to to the comics of his youth, and in appearance, size and format, he was clearly staking ground that this was a "comic book", not just a collection of hippie comics in a magazine, tabloid or paperback.  A  lot of this may have happened with or without Zap #1, but there also might have been a superhero craze in the 40s that was revived in the 1960s without Action #1 as well. 

[rjpb]

20 hours ago, FineCollector said:

On the second list, I chose Strange Tales 135 over FF 52 for significance.  I'm a fan of Black Panther, but he's easy to miss if you're not reading the right books.  SHIELD is a concept that permeates Marvel.

I picked ST 135 on the second list as well. It could well be, that the success of a BP movie cements FF52 as a major key, but he was long a bit player (though with cultural significance), and while Col. Fury didn't take fandom by storm initially either, reinventing the character for the "present" was Marvel indicating that it's universe was a completely shared one, and don't be surprised to find characters from other genres finding their way into the superhero universe. 

[ComicConnoisseur]

2 hours ago, rjpb said:

I picked ST 135 on the second list as well. It could well be, that the success of a BP movie cements FF52 as a major key, but he was long a bit player (though with cultural significance), and while Col. Fury didn't take fandom by storm initially either, reinventing the character for the "present" was Marvel indicating that it's universe was a completely shared one, and don't be surprised to find characters from other genres finding their way into the superhero universe. 

It wouldn't surprise me to see Millie the Model and the big three western heroes (Rawhide Kid,Two Gun Kid, and Kid Colt) and Fin Fang Foom eventually make an appearance in the movie universe.

[namisgr]

FF #48 was a Mile High II warehouse/storage locker find: its abundance in high grade has lessened the cost of buying one.  That in no way, shape, or form reflects on the significance of the comic for collectors, readers, and the hobby overall.

Edited July 16, 2017 by namisgr

[bronze johnny]

Looking to start the final round of polling sometime this week. Can run the top book from eac part of the poll if that's ok or take all books that received more than a specific percentage (10%?) and place them in the the poll. Please pm me if anyone has an idea.

Thanks everyone for the input!

john

[Aman619]

This poll is harder than usual, imo, because of the movies and TV influence on our hobby.  2 years ago, I'd have picked FF48 because for 20 years it was THE key book.  but a year ago FF52 was the hottest book by far in this era... surfer and Glactus have lost a lot of heat, and Panther has risen based on the movies.

But now. Panther Manila has waned.  I voted for Batgirl because her time is now. For how long, who knows.  But if the film happens and it's a hit, she'll be on top.  For how long is anyone's guess in this environment.

[oakman29]

What about Silver Surfer#4? No love.

[bronze johnny]

2 hours ago, oakman29 said:

What about Silver Surfer#4? No love.

Classic cover but not a candidate for most significant SA comic 1965 - 1969. Is definitely in the running for greatest SA cover but that's for another poll.

[FineCollector]

Before the age of slabbage, choosing Silver Surfer 4 over FF 48 would've been madness.  Now that no one opens their comics anymore, who knows?  Kirby's cover is evocative, but Buscema's SS 4 is my favorite of all time (and the guts are just as gorgeous).

[KirbyJack]

I am very happy to say I still open my comics.

But I totally understand what you're saying. Cover vs. cover, I think the public would vote SS4.

[FineCollector]

2 minutes ago, KirbyJack said:

I am very happy to say I still open my comics.

But I totally understand what you're saying. Cover vs. cover, I think the public would vote SS4.

I'm talking about choosing SS4 over Ff48 for collection and investment purposes.

As the price of keys continues to skyrocket, people are going to fabricate new keys.  I wouldnt be surprised if people try to justify Silver Surfer 4 as a must-have classic cover, and lump it in with first appearances as a key.  It seems silly, but a lot of the G.A. guys will drop big money on a comic for cover alone.  How long before that thinking infiltrates S.A.?  

[KirbyJack]

I think everything you're talking about is already happening. 

Oh, well. I'm sure the generation before mine thinks I'm crazy for having a complete run of Plop!

[bronze johnny]

8 hours ago, FineCollector said:

I'm talking about choosing SS4 over Ff48 for collection and investment purposes.

As the price of keys continues to skyrocket, people are going to fabricate new keys.  I wouldnt be surprised if people try to justify Silver Surfer 4 as a must-have classic cover, and lump it in with first appearances as a key.  It seems silly, but a lot of the G.A. guys will drop big money on a comic for cover alone.  How long before that thinking infiltrates S.A.?  

Speculators will try to fabricate "keys." There's a whole history of the American Comic Book that provides a foundation of insight into what and why certain books are defined keys for their age. It's the reason why Strange Tales 110 is a more sought after key than the classic Kirby cover to Strange Tales 107; OAAW 83 is more sought after than Kubert's classic 112 "Brady Bunch" cover; JIM 83 is more sought after than JIM 89; and FF 1 is more sought after than the classic covers of FF 4, FF 12, FF 25, and FF 45. A real comic collector knows the history of the SA and the essence of what makes a key book. The first appearance of the Silver Surfer and Galactus will always be the sought after key for a real collector. Do you really want to compare a classic cover to the first appearance of the Surfer and Galactus and beginning of the greatest story arc of the SA? The greatest thing about books like FF 48 is that it doesn't have a classic cover but remains on everyone's SA want list because of what was mentioned before and also due to this book standing the test of time. It's funny how references are made to this book "needing a movie" to increase in value. The expectation of instant gratification holds true for those with the shortsighted view that comics will increase in value if the character can achieve immediate success in another, more popular medium. Speculators and those professing to be in the know about the "market" scratch their heads with books like OAAW 83 - they refuse to accept the notion that a book is a key, a top 20 SA key for that matter, without any movie, tv show, or even the slightest hint that a screenplay is in the works for a possible movie release in 2029.

 The SA has an array of classic covers and I'm sure there are some who value a cover over a first appearance but the old adage that "you can't judge a book by its cover" also applies when defining the great SA keys. After all, we are talking about comic books not stocks and commodities. 

Since a reference was made to the money paid out for some classic GA covers and Suspense 3 is the best example that comes to mind, it's important to point out that GA classic covers in grades even at 6.0 or higher can be relatively scarcer than the average SA classic cover so it's not surprising to see the record breaking prices for a Terrific 5 or Fantastic Comics 3- there just aren't that many out there. There's plenty of nice copies of classic covers like SS 4 or Nick Fury 5 and these books look great in grade ranges lower than VF. 

Let's try not to lose sight of the fact that it's the book which defines the plastic that encapslates it and not the other way around. Those that have lost sight of this can continue on their merry way. What they might be willing to pay for a comic because of the "slabbage effect" does not change the history associated with the book- and that history cannot be fabricated so long as true comic book collectors are there to either prevent or correct such dubious attempts.

And since we are discussing possible future outcomes let's keep an eye on technological advancement in this interesting era where it may only be a matter of time before computers (even the ones we have at home) could take the place of an independent grading company and slabbage may be a thing of the past - only a matter of time in the shape of things to come...

john

Edited July 19, 2017 by bronze johnny