Name the era 0

[jjonahjameson11]

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 11:56 AM, zhamlau said:

Golden Age: Action 1 (1938, Start of Superhero Comics) - More Fun 108 (1946, post-war beginning of transition from hero to humor/alternate content)

Atomic Age: Atom Man Comics 1 (1946, Start of post bomb era comic book themes) - Tales from the Crypt 46 (1955, last pre-code EC flagship issue, end of artistic freedom)

Silver Age: Showcase 4 (1956, re-introduction of superhero-centric genre in comics) - Avengers 65 (1969, end of 12 cent era-could be any issue in that 2-3 month window for the big two)

Bronze Age: Green Lantern 76 (1970, Beginning of gritty social aware multi-issue arcing storytelling) - Brave and Bold 200 (1983, end of the run for anthology mainline books, also MTIO 100 and House of Mystery/secrets, Adventure ended same year)

Copper Age: Secret Wars 1 (1984, limited series universe spanning "event's", series birthed start of black suit spidey additionally) - Spider-man 1 (1990, New direction artist focused trend for on-going series started at Marvel/DC)

Modern Age (Foil Age):  New Mutants 98 (1991, introduction of post modern superhero Deadpool)- Wolverine 189 (2003, final issue for era defining book)

Digital Age: Walking Dead 1 (2003, start of decompressed art indy comic boom) - Present

 

I sometimes wonder about using secret wars and not contest of champions, but CC was to gimmicky and its effects were negligible even though it was i think marvels first limited series. If the book never happened nothing really changes except i think for "the collector" (been years since i even looked at, but that was always my impression). Secret wars was a critical/commercial huge success and the black suit Spidey roll out was major event so i count that instead. Anyway thats my list.

See, when I think of Digital Age, I think of the first comic produced by computer called "Shatter", published sometime in the mid to late '80's.

[PhilipB2k17]

On 7/28/2017 at 11:56 AM, zhamlau said:

Golden Age: Action 1 (1938, Start of Superhero Comics) - More Fun 108 (1946, post-war beginning of transition from hero to humor/alternate content)

Atomic Age: Atom Man Comics 1 (1946, Start of post bomb era comic book themes) - Tales from the Crypt 46 (1955, last pre-code EC flagship issue, end of artistic freedom)

Silver Age: Showcase 4 (1956, re-introduction of superhero-centric genre in comics) - Avengers 65 (1969, end of 12 cent era-could be any issue in that 2-3 month window for the big two)

Bronze Age: Green Lantern 76 (1970, Beginning of gritty social aware multi-issue arcing storytelling) - Brave and Bold 200 (1983, end of the run for anthology mainline books, also MTIO 100 and House of Mystery/secrets, Adventure ended same year)

Copper Age: Secret Wars 1 (1984, limited series universe spanning "event's", series birthed start of black suit spidey additionally) - Spider-man 1 (1990, New direction artist focused trend for on-going series started at Marvel/DC)

Modern Age (Foil Age):  New Mutants 98 (1991, introduction of post modern superhero Deadpool)- Wolverine 189 (2003, final issue for era defining book)

Digital Age: Walking Dead 1 (2003, start of decompressed art indy comic boom) - Present

 

I sometimes wonder about using secret wars and not contest of champions, but CC was to gimmicky and its effects were negligible even though it was i think marvels first limited series. If the book never happened nothing really changes except i think for "the collector" (been years since i even looked at, but that was always my impression). Secret wars was a critical/commercial huge success and the black suit Spidey roll out was major event so i count that instead. Anyway thats my list.

We have to use "Direct Market" age as a demarcation point because with apologies to Image, you had a new crop of independent publishers come onto the scene a result of the direct market in the early 1980's. These were Eclipse, Pacific, Comico, First, among others. And these independents produced some pretty monumental characters and titles, such as Groo, American Flagg, Grimjack, Starslayer, Grendel, Mage, Rocketeer, TMNT, etc. All of which were creator owned well before Image ever showed up on the scene. 

 

[Panelfan1]

18 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

See, when I think of Digital Age, I think of the first comic produced by computer called "Shatter", published sometime in the mid to late '80's.

Woah! Shatter.. 

Thats a title I completely forgot about and takes me back in time.  

[zhamlau]

31 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

On 7/28/2017 at 11:56 AM, zhamlau said:

Golden Age: Action 1 (1938, Start of Superhero Comics) - More Fun 108 (1946, post-war beginning of transition from hero to humor/alternate content)

Atomic Age: Atom Man Comics 1 (1946, Start of post bomb era comic book themes) - Tales from the Crypt 46 (1955, last pre-code EC flagship issue, end of artistic freedom)

Silver Age: Showcase 4 (1956, re-introduction of superhero-centric genre in comics) - Avengers 65 (1969, end of 12 cent era-could be any issue in that 2-3 month window for the big two)

Bronze Age: Green Lantern 76 (1970, Beginning of gritty social aware multi-issue arcing storytelling) - Brave and Bold 200 (1983, end of the run for anthology mainline books, also MTIO 100 and House of Mystery/secrets, Adventure ended same year)

Copper Age: Secret Wars 1 (1984, limited series universe spanning "event's", series birthed start of black suit spidey additionally) - Spider-man 1 (1990, New direction artist focused trend for on-going series started at Marvel/DC)

Modern Age (Foil Age):  New Mutants 98 (1991, introduction of post modern superhero Deadpool)- Wolverine 189 (2003, final issue for era defining book)

Digital Age: Walking Dead 1 (2003, start of decompressed art indy comic boom) - Present

 

I sometimes wonder about using secret wars and not contest of champions, but CC was to gimmicky and its effects were negligible even though it was i think marvels first limited series. If the book never happened nothing really changes except i think for "the collector" (been years since i even looked at, but that was always my impression). Secret wars was a critical/commercial huge success and the black suit Spidey roll out was major event so i count that instead. Anyway thats my list.

We have to use "Direct Market" age as a demarcation point because with apologies to Image, you had a new crop of independent publishers come onto the scene a result of the direct market in the early 1980's. These were Eclipse, Pacific, Comico, First, among others. And these independents produced some pretty monumental characters and titles, such as Groo, American Flagg, Grimjack, Starslayer, Grendel, Mage, Rocketeer, TMNT, etc. All of which were creator owned well before Image ever showed up on the scene. 

I see your point. Do we however think that really defined the start or end of an age of comics? Like was it game changer? Starts of Era's are easier then ends to find, but I like looking for bookends. Do we all think that the nature of how comics were made and their stories told shifted for the majority of editors/creators because of the 80s direct market independent boom?Like did it change the trajectory of thought for Marvel/DC? Maybe you can argue actually that spirt and focus is what allowed DC to do Dark Knight and Watchmen, eventually Sandman.

[delekkerste]

On 7/26/2017 at 1:15 AM, O. said:

I basically go by this in my articles:-

Golden Age: 1938 (Action #1) to 1955

Silver Age: 1956 (Showcase #4) to 1969

Bronze Age: 1970 (GL #76) to 1979

Copper Age: 1980 to 1991

Modern Age: 1992 (Youngblood #1) to present day

I agree with this.  I can't look at pre-Secret Wars #1 '80s books and think of them as Bronze Age - they are definitely Copper Age to me.

I would call 1992-1999 the Image Era and then say 2000-up as the current Modern Era, marked by the launch of CGC, the release of the first X-Men film and the launch of Marvel's Ultimate Universe with Ultimate Spider-Man #1.  Though, if one wanted to start the current era with 1998 (release of the first Blade film and the launch of the Marvel Knights imprint, which began the rejuvenation of Marvel post-bankruptcy) or 2003 (release of Walking Dead #1 and a mini-Golden Age of quality writing at Marvel), I wouldn't have a problem with either of those years either.  

[PhilipB2k17]

32 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

I see your point. Do we however think that really defined the start or end of an age of comics? Like was it game changer? Starts of Era's are easier then ends to find, but I like looking for bookends. Do we all think that the nature of how comics were made and their stories told shifted for the majority of editors/creators because of the 80s direct market independent boom?Like did it change the trajectory of thought for Marvel/DC? Maybe you can argue actually that spirt and focus is what allowed DC to do Dark Knight and Watchmen, eventually Sandman.

I think it did. Marvel and DC had to create creator owned branded titles to compete. So Marvel created Epic and DC created Vertigo, which both resulted in some important properties and characters (Vertigo, epecially). The Direct market era changed everything. It broke the comics code, for one. It was the end of the comics code era. That's a huge demarcation point.

[zhamlau]

1 hour ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I think it did. Marvel and DC had to create creator owned branded titles to compete. So Marvel created Epic and DC created Vertigo, which both resulted in some important properties and characters (Vertigo, epecially). The Direct market era changed everything. It broke the comics code, for one. It was the end of the comics code era. That's a huge demarcation point.

Ok, where would we move cooper age to? What would be the real start of this? Like what was the origin point (or the "harbinger"...sigh....cheesy)?

[PhilipB2k17]

1 hour ago, zhamlau said:

Ok, where would we move cooper age to? What would be the real start of this? Like what was the origin point (or the "harbinger"...sigh....cheesy)?

I think DC stopped putting Comics Code bug on their books in 2011. And it pretty much ceased functioning in 2009. I'd say the end of the Comics Code would mark the beginning of the true modern era. Frankly, the Silver Age began as a direct result of the self-regulating of comics content because of the backlash against EC and other horror, and crime books in the 1950's. The Bronze Age (IMHO) started when the Comics Code relaxed their standards on content. Then the Direct Market circumvented the comics code. I'd use Dazzler #1 as the beginning of the Copper/Direct Market age, as it was the 1st Marvel exclusive Direct sales regular comic book. That came out in 1980. Bronze would be, where the Comics Code authority loosened its standards in 1971 to allow more horror themes. I have no problem with using GA/GL 76 either, as its about the same time. 

So, when does the copper age end? 1980-2009 is 29 years. People have suggested the Image era, but how about the Overprinting Era, starting with X-Men #1 in 1991? 

Then Id probably end the overprinting/speculative boom era at point when the X-Men film came out. That marked the beginning of the Mumtimedia era, which we are still in. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[F For Fake]

I've always felt that "modern age" should be the contemporary period. No matter what year it is, however many years down the line, that is "modern age". Therefore, while the 90's post-Copper period was "modern" for a time, I think IT should be renamed, as some have suggested, "The Chrome Age", (or "Chromium" or something along those lines), and the NEW "Modern Age" begun with either Ultimate Spidey 1, or Walking Dead 1 (my vote goes for WD 1, as it is still relevant.)

[PhilipB2k17]

52 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

I've always felt that "modern age" should be the contemporary period. No matter what year it is, however many years down the line, that is "modern age". Therefore, while the 90's post-Copper period was "modern" for a time, I think IT should be renamed, as some have suggested, "The Chrome Age", (or "Chromium" or something along those lines), and the NEW "Modern Age" begun with either Ultimate Spidey 1, or Walking Dead 1 (my vote goes for WD 1, as it is still relevant.)

I suggest we call the period from 1991 to 2000 (or, 2002) the Overprinting age. But, Armor age might work too, seeing as that was the mostly awful artistic trend at the time.

Edited August 1, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[Brian Peck]

I agree with many

Golden Age: 1938 (Action #1) to 1955

Silver Age: 1956 (Showcase #4) to 1969

Bronze Age: 1970 (GL #76) to 1979

Copper Age: 1980 (Direct Market) to 1991 - Marvel and DC started publishing comics for the direct market and saw the rise of Diamond as a distributor. Comic Book shops and companies selling directly to them changed the who dynamics of the industry. It changed the stories and how the publishers were trying to attract new readers.

Tin Age: 1992 (Image) to 2006 Founding of Image would be the next BIG shift. It changed how creators got their books to the customers. They also owned their creations. But this also saw the implosion of the comic book market later in the 90s.

Modern/Digital Age: 2007 (Comixology) to Present - Founding of Comixology. When talking about digital we can't really talk about the art process switching to digital inks, colouring or lettering. That doesn't effect the comic book product or story. Digital Age really started with Comicology which directly competed with printed comic books. This is a fundamental shift in the industry.

 

 

[PhilipB2k17]

16 hours ago, Brian Peck said:

I agree with many

Golden Age: 1938 (Action #1) to 1955

Silver Age: 1956 (Showcase #4) to 1969

Bronze Age: 1970 (GL #76) to 1979

Copper Age: 1980 (Direct Market) to 1991 - Marvel and DC started publishing comics for the direct market and saw the rise of Diamond as a distributor. Comic Book shops and companies selling directly to them changed the who dynamics of the industry. It changed the stories and how the publishers were trying to attract new readers.

Tin Age: 1992 (Image) to 2006 Founding of Image would be the next BIG shift. It changed how creators got their books to the customers. They also owned their creations. But this also saw the implosion of the comic book market later in the 90s.

Modern/Digital Age: 2007 (Comixology) to Present - Founding of Comixology. When talking about digital we can't really talk about the art process switching to digital inks, colouring or lettering. That doesn't effect the comic book product or story. Digital Age really started with Comicology which directly competed with printed comic books. This is a fundamental shift in the industry.

 

 

My argument for why Dazzler #1 should be considered the beginning of the Copper Age of comics. 

https://books.google.com/books?id=_G6qDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25&dq=Dazzler+direct+market&source=bl&ots=EMNj_M5gzs&sig=tbi4RpogU8lCHa_ZzL8MtClISNM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixvLCi0LjVAhWI8YMKHYNpCHwQ6AEITzAH#v=onepage&q=Dazzler direct market&f=false

[zhamlau]

I don't think Copper age starts in 1980 though, that's my biggest issue. Each era has a feel to it, you know? Like something similar and consistent. I look at these books below from what would be the start of the copper era and I think "does this feel the same to me as say Rocket Raccoon, or NFL Superpro? Or more mainstream like black suit spider-man ASM and the like?

This doesn't look like that, it looks like bronze age to me, it feels like it. It reads mostly like it. I would still put it in that vein.

 

[delekkerste]

58 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

I don't think Copper age starts in 1980 though, that's my biggest issue. Each era has a feel to it, you know? Like something similar and consistent. I look at these books below from what would be the start of the copper era and I think "does this feel the same to me as say Rocket Raccoon, or NFL Superpro? Or more mainstream like black suit spider-man ASM and the like?

This doesn't look like that, it looks like bronze age to me, it feels like it. It reads mostly like it. I would still put it in that vein.

Late Bronze/early Copper...I'd be fine with 1981's direct-market only Dazzler #1 being the demarcation point splitting the two.  No way in my mind do we have to wait until 1984 to start the Copper Age, though.  I mean, sure, the Copper Age isn't homogeneous in terms of style & feel all the way through - books from 1983 and 1990 look and feel different from each other - but, the same can be said for other eras as well.  Silver Age books/art from 1969 and 1962 have a different feel and sensibility about them.

After thinking about it some more, I'd also reiterate and emphasize that the current Modern Age of Comics began in 2000.  While Walking Dead #1 from 2003 does hold some appeal as a starting point, I think that the revival of quality in comics following the disastrous decade of the '90s started sooner (to me, with 1998's Daredevil #1 reboot, but, stylistically, I'd say Ultimate Spidey #1 is when the turnaround really starts kicking into high gear).  Plus, with the slabbing era starting in 2000 and X-Men 1 really turbocharging superheroes at the box office that year, I think 2000 has a much stronger case than 2003 (or 1998) for kicking off the era we still find ourselves in. (I don't see a need to break down the post-2000 period into multiple eras just yet...when the time is right, people will make that distinction when it becomes more obvious).  

Edited August 2, 2017 by delekkerste

[zhamlau]

11 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Late Bronze/early Copper...I'd be fine with 1981's direct-market only Dazzler #1 being the demarcation point splitting the two.  No way in my mind do we have to wait until 1984 to start the Copper Age, though.  I mean, sure, the Copper Age isn't homogeneous in terms of style & feel all the way through - books from 1983 and 1990 look and feel different from each other - but, the same can be said for other eras as well.  Silver Age books/art from 1969 and 1962 have a different feel and sensibility about them.

After thinking about it some more, I'd also reiterate and emphasize that the current Modern Age of Comics began in 2000.  While Walking Dead #1 from 2003 does hold some appeal as a starting point, I think that the revival of quality in comics following the disastrous decade of the '90s started sooner (to me, with 1998's Daredevil #1 reboot, but, stylistically, I'd say Ultimate Spidey #1 is when the turnaround really starts kicking into high gear).  Plus, with the slabbing era starting in 2000 and X-Men 1 really turbocharging superheroes at the box office that year, I think 2000 has a much stronger case than 2003 (or 1998) for kicking off the era we still find ourselves in. (I don't see a need to break down the post-2000 period into multiple eras just yet...when the time is right, people will make that distinction when it becomes more obvious).  

hmmm...ok Dazzler 1 for start of Copper Age enough folks have made that argument and stylistically around 81/82 you see a big change in many books (especially x-men) and in theory it would allow something like Contest of Champions to be more inline with Copper.

 

I think however with the advent of that more decompressed independent comic story telling as the start of a new age, WD1 still works. Its like the definition of an era of material and it really changed everything. Image became so much more because of them, it just changed the game.

[PhilipB2k17]

26 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Late Bronze/early Copper...I'd be fine with 1981's direct-market only Dazzler #1 being the demarcation point splitting the two.  No way in my mind do we have to wait until 1984 to start the Copper Age, though.  I mean, sure, the Copper Age isn't homogeneous in terms of style & feel all the way through - books from 1983 and 1990 look and feel different from each other - but, the same can be said for other eras as well.  Silver Age books/art from 1969 and 1962 have a different feel and sensibility about them.

After thinking about it some more, I'd also reiterate and emphasize that the current Modern Age of Comics began in 2000.  While Walking Dead #1 from 2003 does hold some appeal as a starting point, I think that the revival of quality in comics following the disastrous decade of the '90s started sooner (to me, with 1998's Daredevil #1 reboot, but, stylistically, I'd say Ultimate Spidey #1 is when the turnaround really starts kicking into high gear).  Plus, with the slabbing era starting in 2000 and X-Men 1 really turbocharging superheroes at the box office that year, I think 2000 has a much stronger case than 2003 (or 1998) for kicking off the era we still find ourselves in. (I don't see a need to break down the post-2000 period into multiple eras just yet...when the time is right, people will make that distinction when it becomes more obvious).  

I agree, 1984 is too late for Copper. That's the year Spidey's black suit was introduced in ASM 252. By that point, the Cooper age was in full swing. I think Copper ends with the publication of X-Men #1 in 1991. You can also make an argument it ends with the introduction of Cable in NM 87, which is 1990.  Leifeld took over NM on issue 86, and it ended with issue 100. X-Force #1 also came out in 1991. So, I think 1990/1991 has to be considered the end of the Copper age.

Edited August 2, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[delekkerste]

1 minute ago, zhamlau said:

I think however with the advent of that more decompressed independent comic story telling as the start of a new age, WD1 still works. Its like the definition of an era of material and it really changed everything. Image became so much more because of them, it just changed the game.

I think of WD1 for Modern like Secret Wars 1 for Copper - an important milestone for the age, for sure, and could have been the start of it in the absence of a stronger candidate.  For me, though, as big as WD1 is, what really kicks off the start of the Modern Age is the recovery from the near-death experience for the industry in the mid-to-late '90s.  And I think Ultimate Spidey 1 is where things really start to take hold - by 2003, Marvel is already firing on all cylinders creatively (best quality of output since the early 1980s, IMO).  Yes, WD1 ushers in a second Golden Age for indie comics (much of which makes its way to the big and little screen).  But, I think the revival that makes it all possible starts earlier in 2000.  Plus, the slabbing and movie spec phenomenon era kicks off in 2000 as well.  

[delekkerste]

1 minute ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I agree, 1984 is too late for Copper. That's the year Spidey's black suit was introduced in ASM 252. By that point, the Cooper age was in full swing. I think Copper ends with the publication of X-Men #1 in 1991. You an make an argument it ends with the introduction of Cable in NM 87 too, which is 1990.  Leifeld took over NM on issue 86, and it ended with issue 100. X-Force #1 also came out in 1991. So, I think 1990/1991 has to be considered the end of the Copper age.

Just my opinion, but I still think of X-Men #1 as quintessential (late) Copper Age.  I mean, X-Men #1 was a huge event, yes, but, it featured the same creative team that was working on Uncanny X-Men in 1989 and 1990.  To me, when Liefeld, Lee, McFarlane, etc. actually leave Marvel and start Image Comics, is when we start the new era.   

[PhilipB2k17]

I'd also peg the end of the Golden age in 1949-50, with the first publication of the classic EC titles. 

As for ending the Copper with the foundation of Image, I disagree with that. The full on speculation boom, gimmicks, and the recognizable art style for the post copper period started before Image was formed. 

[zhamlau]

I really think the shelving of superheroes post ww2 for horror/scifi (Atomic everything) is really the death of the golden age. A lot of horror like avon i think existed in the late 40s that EC just perfected.