Should books graded 9.6 have notes? 1 1

[MrWalkingDead]

11 minutes ago, jcjames said:

I've heard years ago that, in automobile manufacturing, there are certain days of the week that cars are produced with more defects than other days due to workers making more mistakes or being less-than-diligent (maybe not so much nowadays with so much automated assembly-line manufacturing). Like you don't want to buy a car that rolled off the assembly line on a Monday or a Friday (on Mondays workers are more likely to be hungover and Fridays workers are more likely to be tired and cut corners).

I wonder if it's the same with graders - are certain grades more likely to be given depending on the day of the week because the grader might be getting weary from a long week, or is hungover or just having "a case of the Mondays"?

I wonder what % of highest grades are given on each day of the week, statistically there should be 20% of all 9.8's given during the week (M-F) equally distributed on each day of the week.

But if, for example, only 10% of all 9.8 grades given out during a week are given on a Monday or Friday, that would suggest more subjectivity with the grader than with the book itself.

 

you are 100% correct about the auto business-  back in the 60s and 70s, depending on the day or night shift- cars would come off the line with small differences that people still debate today-

[namisgr]

They're in a hurry.  CGC grading is a volume business, and the less time spent on grading and notating each comic the more comics can be completed in a finite time frame.  It's my understanding that the grader's notes used to be much more extensive than they are now.

[F For Fake]

Yeah, just had two come back 9.6, and on the one book I pretty quickly found what I'd missed (although it was indeed a tiny defect, and I have seen worse on 9.8's before....but I digress) but on the second book I couldn't see what I was missing at all. Maybe something that was hidden after encapsulation? Notes on the specific defect would help me learn what not to send in (if I'm hoping for a 9.8) but then again, why would CGC want to discourage me from sending stuff in? 9.6 or 9.8, they get paid all the same.

[jsilverjanet]

1 hour ago, chrisco37 said:

What do the notes say?

One says - spine stress lines spine

the second - spine stress lines spine breaks color

The other 2 have no notes 

 

[F For Fake]

3 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

One says - spine stress lines spine

the second - spine stress lines spine breaks color

The other 2 have no notes 

 

The other two were just guilty by association! 

[lizards2]

4 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

1 hour ago, chrisco37 said:

What do the notes say?

One says - spine stress lines spine

the second - spine stress lines spine breaks color

The other 2 have no notes 

Sounds like your lucky they didn't come out 9.0s 

[MrWalkingDead]

F for Fake  Louisville KY is the shiz-nite!

[Patriot6]

I recently got back an ASM 265, which graded at 9.8. It had notes, I was shocked, and the one entry simply read 'very, very light spine wear in one area.' I assumed that I was that close to a 9.9  sure feels like it, the book is a beauty!

[darkstar]

Every book should judge grader's notes. Oh you found a defect? Write it down. And they should be free too. Getting charged twice for the same service is a joke.

[MustEatBrains]

5 minutes ago, darkstar said:

Every book should judge grader's notes. Oh you found a defect? Write it down. And they should be free too. Getting charged twice for the same service is a joke.

Aren't graders notes free to the submitter?  Are you just stating anyone should have access to graders notes with just a CGC cert number for free?

[Bomber-Bob]

3 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

In some instances I'll submit multiple copies but only some of the books will contain notes whereas others do not (all graded at 9.6)

It makes me think that the grader didn't find anything wrong (or at least significant enough to make a note)  but didn't feel it was a "9.8"

 

I think you are spot on here. When dealing with multiple copies, some copies just look and 'feel'superior, so the grader probably wants to distinguish the better copy from the others, hence your 9.6's. Maybe the 9.6 has a 'flaw' that CGC normally doesn't downgrade for while the 9.8 does not have this flaw. Printer's crease, indention, color rub, etc. So nothing in the notes for the 9.6, other than the 9.8 looked better. Part of the downside to submitting multiple copies at once. It really is a crapshoot.

 

[newshane]

To answer the OP's question - yes. Absolutely. Every time.

I want to know what kept me from a 9.8.

But they don't want us to learn because it would cost them money.

[jsilverjanet]

43 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I think you are spot on here. When dealing with multiple copies, some copies just look and 'feel'superior, so the grader probably wants to distinguish the better copy from the others, hence your 9.6's. Maybe the 9.6 has a 'flaw' that CGC normally doesn't downgrade for while the 9.8 does not have this flaw. Printer's crease, indention, color rub, etc. So nothing in the notes for the 9.6, other than the 9.8 looked better. Part of the downside to submitting multiple copies at once. It really is a crapshoot.

 

The problem is that none of them came back 9.8. So in your example he/she had 2 that they saw a significant defect to note but the others just didn't "feel right"

this book is a pain in 9.8 but when I see books come back 9.6 with no flaws it makes me suspect that Graders themselves believe this to be true so their curve is a little tighter than another book.

again another example for lack of consistency on the grading/graders

[Bomber-Bob]

1 minute ago, jsilverjanet said:

The problem is that none of them came back 9.8. So in your example he/she had 2 that they saw a significant defect to note but the others just didn't "feel right"

this book is a pain in 9.8 but when I see books come back 9.6 with no flaws it makes me suspect that Graders themselves believe this to be true so their curve is a little tighter than another book.

again another example for lack of consistency on the grading/graders

My bad. Just curious but are we talking about Spawn #1 here ? I've always heard it was tough to get a 9.8 on that book. I was one for one on submitting so I quit while I was ahead and never submitted another !

[jsilverjanet]

No solar 10.

[Bomber-Bob]

3 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

No solar 10.

That is a really tough book to get a 9.8. I believe that tough books like Solar 10 are better suited for a prescreen, especially with multiple copies. The prescreener may pass one that the regular graders would be tougher on.  I realize the regular graders can override the prescreen but once they bill your Credit card, they are less likely to do so. There is some psychology to submitting.

[SteppinRazor]

5 hours ago, MustEatBrains said:

I would think if you are grading and deducting points starting from a 10pt scale, there must be some things, no matter how minor that are bringing it down and would personally like to see notes on what those defects were.

Seems self-evident to me.  if it's not a 10, it's not a 10 for a reason, so what is the reason?  Should be simple.

[SteppinRazor]

3 hours ago, F For Fake said:

Yeah, just had two come back 9.6, and on the one book I pretty quickly found what I'd missed (although it was indeed a tiny defect, and I have seen worse on 9.8's before....but I digress) but on the second book I couldn't see what I was missing at all. Maybe something that was hidden after encapsulation? Notes on the specific defect would help me learn what not to send in (if I'm hoping for a 9.8) but then again, why would CGC want to discourage me from sending stuff in? 9.6 or 9.8, they get paid all the same.

They get paid the same, but they can also discourage a person (me for example) from bothering to send in if they are just crapshooting.  The whole point of grading a comic is to know what you're getting.  All knocking a comic and not saying why does is push the acceptable risk margin higher - ie raising the floor for value.  Pretty soon it won't be worth the risk of not getting a 9.8 for anything worth less than a couple hundo.  If modern is their bread and butter, then the future may not be bright for cgc.

[Bomber-Bob]

26 minutes ago, SteppinRazor said:

Seems self-evident to me.  if it's not a 10, it's not a 10 for a reason, so what is the reason?  Should be simple.

This has been discussed before but I don't think they necessarily start the flaw reduction at 10. I think they start at 9.8 and if the book has perfect centering, coloring, staple placement, razor sharp corners, no flaws that would otherwise be ignored (like printer's creases or corner chips), it may get a higher grade. Imagine if they stated in their notes that the spine shows a slight white stripe or some other flaw that is normally ignored. Everyone here would be crying foul.

Because they now sell the notes, everyone expects the notes to be comprehensive, complete, all inclusive. I think that is an unfair expectation, sorry.

[SteppinRazor]

7 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

This has been discussed before but I don't think they necessarily start the flaw reduction at 10. I think they start at 9.8 and if the book has perfect centering, coloring, staple placement, razor sharp corners, no flaws that would otherwise be ignored (like printer's creases or corner chips), it may get a higher grade. Imagine if they stated in their notes that the spine shows a slight white stripe or some other flaw that is normally ignored. Everyone here would be crying foul.

Because they now sell the notes, everyone expects the notes to be comprehensive, complete, all inclusive. I think that is an unfair expectation, sorry.

It's not really important whether they start at the top, the middle, or the bottom.  The sense of it is the same.  One should be able to note what defects resulted in the grade.  They are already doing it, just wiggle a pen on a piece paper when they grade.  Like I said, seems self evident.  If something is ignored, then used to ding a grade, then that is a problem.  What good is a grading service that is arbitrary?  Might as well go back to everyone grading their own.

As for the expectation the notes be clear, I don't agree it's an unfair one.  I buy a box of cereal at the store, it better have cereal in it.  They don't have to point score every detail, but if you get vaguery for $5, that's unfair.

Edited August 31, 2017 by SteppinRazor