Should books graded 9.6 have notes? 1 1

[darkstar]

3 hours ago, MustEatBrains said:

Aren't graders notes free to the submitter?  Are you just stating anyone should have access to graders notes with just a CGC cert number for free?

Yeah, they should. 

[Bomber-Bob]

8 minutes ago, SteppinRazor said:

It's not really important whether they start at the top, the middle, or the bottom.  The sense of it is the same.  One should be able to note what defects resulted in the grade.  They are already doing it, just wiggle a pen on a piece paper when they grade.  Like I said, seems self evident.  If something is ignored, then used to ding a grade, then that is a problem.  What good is a grading service that is arbitrary?  Might as well go back to everyone grading their own.

As for the expectation the notes be clear, I don't agree it's an unfair one.  I buy a box of cereal at the store, it better have cereal in it.  They don't have to point score every detail, but if you get vaguery for $5, that's unfair.

I actually agree with you but I just don't think it's in CGC's business model to give consistently clear and comprehensive notes.  First off, I think the turnaround time would suffer if they stressed better notes. I also suspect people are calling in all the time, challenging the notes. 'I don't see the stain you are referring to', 'what spine crease?' , etc. The notes are a lot better than it used to be. It's just not a high priority. Kind of like the registry. 

[Readcomix]

11 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I actually agree with you but I just don't think it's in CGC's business model to give consistently clear and comprehensive notes.  First off, I think the turnaround time would suffer if they stressed better notes. I also suspect people are calling in all the time, challenging the notes. 'I don't see the stain you are referring to', 'what spine crease?' , etc. The notes are a lot better than it used to be. It's just not a high priority. Kind of like the registry. 

If the notes are incorrect, they should correct them. That's reasonable.

I could live without notes in some cases IF there were transparency of criteria -- just post up something similar to what Overstreet runs in the guide every year. It should be enough for me to figure out why my 9.6 isn't a 9.8.

And with, say, an ASM 300 where 9.6 lately is $750ish and 9.8 is  Two grand, I think (anyway, the gap is silly; you get the idea) we ought to be able to understand why.

Transparency is as important as vaunted impartiality.

[SteppinRazor]

1 hour ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I actually agree with you but I just don't think it's in CGC's business model to give consistently clear and comprehensive notes.  First off, I think the turnaround time would suffer if they stressed better notes. I also suspect people are calling in all the time, challenging the notes. 'I don't see the stain you are referring to', 'what spine crease?' , etc. The notes are a lot better than it used to be. It's just not a high priority. Kind of like the registry. 

I understand where you're coming from.  My thing is, if they are going to sell something for money, then the quality of whatever good or service they are selling is reflective of the quality of their business.  And the level of respect they have for their consumer.  If you bought something from me for $5, you are going to get from me the best $5 of effort I can give (in fact, I struggle a lot because I undercharge and overdeliver).  If people complain, they shouldn't be able to complain about the completeness. If I make a lamp for someone and they have an issue with it, it shouldn't be, "lacks a switch".

I don't expect notes to come with the formula for point deduction, but I expect if they are selling me notes, they are descriptive of the flaws.  As to people challenging the notes, just make it clear that the grade is the grade and it doesn't get changed because you don't agree.  People on Antiques Roadshow can always argue with the appraiser, but it isn't going to make them change the valuation.

If you don't want to give people their money's worth, and you don't want to hear from them, fine.  Don't charge them money then.

[Martin Sinescu]

5 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

The problem is that none of them came back 9.8. So in your example he/she had 2 that they saw a significant defect to note but the others just didn't "feel right"

this book is a pain in 9.8 but when I see books come back 9.6 with no flaws it makes me suspect that Graders themselves believe this to be true so their curve is a little tighter than another book.

again another example for lack of consistency on the grading/graders

It's interesting in regard to this specific book, Solar 10, as it was long thought to be nearly impossible to get a 9.8 based on CGC's standards for the book (which is why there's an abnormally huge disparity in price between 9.8 and 9.6). It was speculated later that the graders may have loosened up a little on that grade as virtually no 9.8's were getting out and people were getting frustrated. Whether that's true or not, no one on the outside knows for sure, but I wonder if maybe they tightened back up on it some. It's difficult, too, because they need to protect the integrity of those few 9.8's that people have paid $5-700 which could be severely impacted if suddenly they loosen up and there's twice as many out there in a year.

To the discussion in general, I think there should be notes recorded for a 9.6, but I don't feel CGC owes anyone notes or an explanation as a part of their service. It's an add-on that you pay for, not free, and not part of their basic service. What you're paying for is for them to assign a score, perform the restoration check and put it in a holder, not for them to give an explanation as to how they arrived at their conclusion. 

[jsilverjanet]

I used the Solar 10 as the most recent example. I have others and I'm sure others have other examples of the same issue. I submitted 4 copies of a recent modern comic. 3 came back 9.8, the other 9.6. Again no notes on the 9.6.

As for the integrity of the value, that's not their problem and shouldn't weigh in the decision of the grader.  Grade the book in front of you based on it's actual grade not the potential it may or may not have on the market.

[greggy]

42 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

I used the Solar 10 as the most recent example. I have others and I'm sure others have other examples of the same issue. I submitted 4 copies of a recent modern comic. 3 came back 9.8, the other 9.6. Again no notes on the 9.6.

As for the integrity of the value, that's not their problem and shouldn't weigh in the decision of the grader.  Grade the book in front of you based on it's actual grade not the potential it may or may not have on the market.

The reason why you got the 9.6 on the Love and Rockets is that you picked a krappy copy from Gilbert.  All the others were 9.8s to begin with so don't pat yourself on the back, little person.

xoxo

greggy

[jsilverjanet]

17 minutes ago, greggy said:

The reason why you got the 9.6 on the Love and Rockets is that you picked a krappy copy from Gilbert.  All the others were 9.8s to begin with so don't pat yourself on the back, little person.

xoxo

greggy

I was talking about Wonder Woman 36 variant dumb .....

[lizards2]

It's interesting to watch the  board mating rituals.....,

[jsilverjanet]

8 hours ago, lizards2 said:

It's interesting to watch the  board mating rituals.....,

Perv

[lizards2]

Just now, jsilverjanet said:

8 hours ago, lizards2 said:

It's interesting to watch the  board mating rituals.....,

Perv

[jsilverjanet]

I've added a poll to the first post

[mattn792]

11 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

As for the integrity of the value, that's not their problem and shouldn't weigh in the decision of the grader.  Grade the book in front of you based on it's actual grade not the potential it may or may not have on the market.

Spot on.  CGC isn't seeing a cut of the after market sales (at least I hope not, otherwise so much for impartiality), so the grade should be the grade.  If that results in no 9.8s of a particular issue, so be it. 

[jcjames]

2 hours ago, mattn792 said:

Spot on.  CGC isn't seeing a cut of the after market sales (at least I hope not, otherwise so much for impartiality), so the grade should be the grade.  If that results in no 9.8s of a particular issue, so be it. 

But for high-$$ books, CGC does get "a cut" of the after-market sales value because they base their grading fees on the value of the high-$$ comics (a value which can be greatly affected by the grade THEY assign).

 

 

[Jeffro.]

On 8/31/2017 at 1:07 PM, greggy said:

Depends

Undergarments?

[mattn792]

13 minutes ago, jcjames said:

But for high-$$ books, CGC does get "a cut" of the after-market sales value because they base their grading fees on the value of the high-$$ comics (a value which can be greatly affected by the grade THEY assign).

 

 

You sir, make an interesting point.  I've never been cool enough to make use of the walkthrough tier where the FMV% charge comes into play, so I hadn't really thought about it.   So now that we've kicked off a mini conspiracy theory, the disclaimer on the submission page seems to indicate that charges can be added if the FMV is ultimately determined to be higher than initially declared.  And it would be a safe assumption that the fair market value assigned by CGC at charge time largely correlates to recent sale prices, no?

[Silver Surfer]

On 8/31/2017 at 10:31 AM, jsilverjanet said:

Depends on?

If he is wearing them.

[Artboy99]

I think all books that get graded should have notes provided.

[Phantalien]

Comic grading is becoming more and more like giving points for olympic figure skating.   The more CGC comments on why a comic got points deducted the more we can figure out what crazy way they grade.   However, it would also mean that they would have to stick to a certain criteria, which would ultimately hurt them as there are probably a lot more comics out there that are a higher grade than how they graded it.

[grayzr]

If the book is not 10.0 I feel some sort of notes should be giving to determine why its not perfect. 

A quick example like "One nanometer tear on left edge"

Would be nice to know.